Zeuhl - an observation

KA is a revolutionary zeuhl album bro. It sounds different than all other music ever. Magma is the only zeuhl band that has ever made any sort of new and revolutionary stuff. All other french zeuhl bands (except Dun) all just tried to copy them...and well, zao just went in a different direction.

boo..  I know little of this Zeuhl you speak of, have not had my 'Magma moment' (yet), and intend to derail this well-thought thread with nonsense and illiterasie











Edited by Atavachron - September 13 2008 at 20:16

I'm get unfairly berated here... I don't think I've made myself quite clear.

I love Magma!
I love Koenjijyakkei and yes, they are Zeuhl (my comment was alluding to the fact that some may query that they are but not me, I definitely think they are.

I was merely observating where Zeuhl will go next... 'cause Infernal Machina sounded like MDK and De Futura at times.  There's no complaints from me, I enjoy the album a lot.

I think what I am trying to say is... if Magma (or some other Zeuhl band) messed up the sound too much by trying to be innovative, it may make them sound worse... or even less Zeuhl.

It's the 3 main elements that keep Zeuhl what it is.

Although having said that, Offering's album A Fiileh has Zeuhl tracks on it and they include no fuzz bass whatsoever and mostly piano.

But what can be done to Zeuhl to keep it fresh?

Nothing?

Or would some new innovations completely reinvent Zeuhl?

I am sure Ehmenteht-Re will be a wonderful album, I have no doubt about it and I hope I am not disappointed.  I'm looking forward to it in October.

All I'm saying is that there is only so far you can take the vocals, the drumming and the bass... it's like a lot of space rock sounds repetitive (that's arguable, obviously) after a while.

I expect Zeuhl to sound like Zeuhl, basically.

There was no intention of berating. Maybe a little abuse if you actually *did* listen to the new Metallica album.

Sure, Zeuhl has its hallmarks.  But really, how fresh does something you enjoy really have to be? We live in a highly derivative time. When it comes to music being fresh, new and innovative, it is all listener perspective at this point.

Japanese Zeuhl is the future of Zeuhl.  I don't think that the Japanese stuff is that similar to the classic French bands, but the classic "Zeuhl sound" was quite constraining and, if not introduced to radical change, was bound to stagnate rather quickly.  The Japanese scene is, to my ears, refreshing and innovative, and it shows no sign of slowing down any time soon.  They may not sound much like Magma, but I think that's why they work so well; mixing Magma's sound with math-rock and other influences creates a far more satisfying product than simply bashing out another Magma-clone album. 

Ementheht-Re is another wonderful slab of Zeuhl, as different from K.A. as K.A. is from Kohntarkosz.  It has some dreamy build-ups, but in a slower, less rhythmicly driving way than Kohntarkosz, and it contains Hhai and Zombies.  It's a wonderful piece.  As far as needing something different from Magma, I find that Magma does a great job of mixing up their sound while retaining a unique charm that no one else seems to be able to find. 

rileydog22 wrote: Japanese Zeuhl is the future of Zeuhl.  I don't think that the Japanese stuff is that similar to the classic French bands, but the classic "Zeuhl sound" was quite constraining and, if not introduced to radical change, was bound to stagnate rather quickly.  The Japanese scene is, to my ears, refreshing and innovative, and it shows no sign of slowing down any time soon.  They may not sound much like Magma, but I think that's why they work so well; mixing Magma's sound with math-rock and other influences creates a far more satisfying product than simply bashing out another Magma-clone album.  Ementheht-Re is another wonderful slab of Zeuhl, as different from K.A. as K.A. is from Kohntarkosz.  It has some dreamy build-ups, but in a slower, less rhythmicly driving way than Kohntarkosz, and it contains Hhai and Zombies.  It's a wonderful piece.  As far as needing something different from Magma, I find that Magma does a great job of mixing up their sound while retaining a unique charm that no one else seems to be able to find.

Nicely said.

I definitely think Koenjihyakkei (and Happy Family to an extent too) are much more innovative than Magma.  However, they're not trying to be Magma or really play classic Zeuhl.  They play an interpretation of Zeuhl and as you rightly say, mix in elements of Math Rock, Punk and Jazz into it.  Every Koenjihyakkei album is different and all are excellent... and they sound like Koenjihyakkei on every album too.

And yes, I feel only Magma (and Vander) can make Zeuhl sound different with each release.  Maybe not groundbreaking but what they do is exceptional.

There is also a lot of music that is labelled as Zeuhl that is not really Zeuhl at all.  There are bands that feature former members of Magma that play primarily Jazz Fusion, whilst there are other bands that use fuzz bass but do not sound particularly Zeuhl in their sound, even though they may very well have been influenced by Magma.

Nice topic, James.  Prepare for some serious drivel from me in response!

My two cents!   Er, more like my two hundred dollars...

For me, what makes Magma so great is that their music is a synthesis of all kinds of different stuff.  20th century classical, jazz, rock, soul/gospel elements... it's the mixture.  Other bands who profess to play Zeuhl (or are influenced in some way by Magma) will probably only take one or a couple of these stylistic elements, and hopefully mix that with something of their own.  The most influential part seems to me to be the jazz part.  Even something as noisy and weird as Ruins (not that I've heard it properly yet...) FEELS like jazz.  Some Zeuhl could really be called an extreme form of jazz fusion, in a way... it's as far away from jazz as you can get and still call it jazz!

As far as Jannick Top goes, I'm wondering whether he only really has one song in him, and that song is... De Futura.   It's a wonderful, wonderful piece of music, but just how many times has he sold us De Futura?!  The bits on 'Infernal Machina' that don't reprise De Futura mostly just reprise other Magma stuff (presumably with Vander's blessing, given that he's on the record!).  Having said that, I like it a lot - it's just not, as you say, very innovative.

I'm pretty hopeful that Magma will give us something truly great in Ëmëhntëht-Rê.  They really only have one bad album to their name, and the known ingredients of Ëmëhntëht-Rê are all good 'uns.  Thus far they've managed to do that thing that I always like in a band - always sound different and always sound like themselves.  Magma has its own 'conceptual continuity' (to borrow the phrase from Zappa) - various themes (musical and narrative) reappear throughout their repertoire, but they never sound rehashed.  (I suppose the revolving door of line up changes plays a part there...)  Even K.A., which was sort of cobbled together from leftovers/unfinished bits, sounds perfect.  I've never heard anything else which makes me FEEL the way that music makes me feel.  I'm not a spiritual person, and it makes me feel spiritual.   (Yes, sorry, you're not going to get much objectivity from me!)

As you know I am currently listening to One Shot's 'Ewaz Vader'.  As Pat said, this is really excellent music.  For me, Zeuhl is like the ultimate in recycled chic - grab a bunch of well-worn tried and trusted stuff (jazz... classical... rock... etc...), put it through the magic blender, and come up with something that... transcends the sum of its parts.  For it to be true Zeuhl it must have that bass sound, muscular but full of finesse; ideally it must have the precision-freak-out drumming; and essentially, it must have the FEELING.  I'm rather getting the FEELING from One Shot, and I do from Guapo quite a lot, too.  I know they are moving away from their Magma-fanboy days a bit with their latest stuff, but just listen to 'Black Oni' and tell me that's not Zeuhl!

To sum up my witless rambling... Zeuhl is the ultimate synthesis of the Cerebral, the Visceral and the Spiritual (soundbite © Miss M.! )!  Plain jazz fusion (or whatever other hybrid form you care to name) might have one or more of those elements, but Zeuhl HAS to have all three.  I'm not sure it's so much about the style, or the content, of this music - more about the effect it has, the way the listener responds.  It's not really Zeuhl if you don't... how can I put it... lose all sense of proportion and inhibition... when you hear it.   So, Jannick Top (and various others!) may be recycling himself into oblivion with 'Infernal Machina', but if you feel the feeling when you hear it... that's Zeuhl.

Just to bring in the old 'Japzeuhl'...  I have to say, 'Angherr Shisspa' is what brought me to this state of worship in the first place - I've never heard anything like it in my life.  It shouldn't make sense.  It should be... horrible.  It's this technicolour mixture of stuff that shouldn't go together at all.  And yet, not only does it work perfectly, not only does it sound totallly unique, it is also directly linked to all this... other stuff.  Pointing backwards to Magma et al, and pointing forwards (well, around, I suppose...) to all that other fascinating Japanese stuff.  Again - it's a mutant hybrid that exceeds its boundaries and just makes you feel fantastic listening to it.

I'm happy every day since I found this stuff.   Enthusiasm is a wonderful thing.

Have you heard Offering's A Fiileh, Puffy?

Some of the tracks on there are very vocal prominent, with most of them being acoustic or just accompanied by a piano.

Not all of the album is Zeuhl though.


Edited by James - September 16 2008 at 12:58

James wrote: Have you heard Offering's A Fiileh, Puffy? Some of the tracks on there are very vocal prominent, with most of them being acoustic or just accompanied by a piano. Not all of the album is Zeuhl though.

no i haven't, I've been thrown off by the non-zeuhl label tossed at it. what does it sound like anyway?

I'm listening to Retrospektiw I-II and it's just struck me what Magma are all about!  Finally, it's starting to click!

Firstly:

1. the obvious Kobiain myth... Theusz Hamtaahk sounds like music that suits the world of Dune... it sounds alien.  It could be Martian music.  This is obviously the intent but it actually does sound just like that!
2. M.D.K. -  it sounds cultish, almost religious.  The speech at the beginning sounds like a dictator, or a religious guru (no idea what's being said, mind you).  The chanting sounds cultish too.

I raised my arm at the intro... like a salute, of sorts or a march.  Think of thousands of people stood together and doing just that... reminds me of Communist China.  The end of Theusz Hamtaahk and the sirens sounds almost like it would fit a Holocaust situation... it's dark indeed!  Post-apocalyptic and often reminiscent of what World War III would sound like.

Something that also strikes me is the odd sound that reminds me of Van der Graaf Generator... mostly in the keyboards.  It's odd but it's there!

It's finally clicking with me and now my respect for Magma's compositions has just increased a lot!  I loved this album and the two pieces on it for quite some time but now I am started to think more about the sounds I'm hearing... well it's fantastic!


Edited by James - September 20 2008 at 03:04