John Coltrane to be added to PA

Now that Miles Davis are add to PA i  think that John Coltrane deserves to be added for the following reasons:

He would really only be viable as having had an influence on Prog artists [Proto Prog], but would stick out like a sore thumb as he made no direct contributions to Progressive rock.   I'm a huge Trane fan but Miles Davis being added is actually a reason not to add Coltrane; Davis is here in JR/F because of his involvement in - and some feel creation of - Fusion, leading to the seminal albums of Tony Williams and Mahavishnu.  That's a significant contribution to the JR/F genre.  Coltrane, though surely having impact on many important rock musicians, made his mark on modern Jazz and later on avant or progressive Jazz.

Jazz is progressive, at least it's suppose to be







Edited by Atavachron - August 15 2008 at 21:42

Yeah I'm not seeing this.  Miles yes.  Coltrane no.  Not taking anything away from Coltrane -- Blue Train, Giant Steps, Ballads (the best Sunday morning breakfast album I have ever heard), A Love Supreme, and however many others I'm missing -- there's no questioning the genius of these.  But I'm not seeing the prog side.  Now if he had lived long enough to turn electric... 

micky wrote: zafreth wrote: Now that Miles Davis are add to PA i  think that John Coltrane deserves to be added for the following reasons:   1. He´s a really big influence in full prog groups like Magma, Soft Machine, All the jazz fusion scene. think Brubeck is an even bigger influence... on all of prog.. not just jazz orientated groups like you mention.  If we are to go down that road... would insist Brubeck be the first...  2. His playing for jazz have progressive elements like  OM and A Love Supreme. no doubt of that 3. Coltrane’s fiercely adventurous harmonic imagination is the most absorbing aspect of his developing style. 4. What makes Coltrane one the the most interesting jazz players is that he’s not apt to ever stop looking for ways to perfect what he’s already developed and also to go beyond what he knows he can do. He is thoroughly involved with plunging sa far into himself and the expressibe possibilities of his saxophone as he can. that is the prog ethos if I've ever saw it 5. Progressive Jazz?? as Progressive Metal exist. this subgenre deserve more attention. the idea is interesting.. which means it has no chance of going anywhere   And last if Iron Maiden found his way to PA, why don't Coltrane.   apples and oranges... and nothing in common.  Iron Maiden made progressive rock.. Coltrane was dead before it ever got off the ground.   If Metallica Does someday to PA, Coltrane deserves more than he have to be in PA see above the idea is an interesting one.. and nice to see jazz and jazz-orientated groups get some air time here with the discussions, evaluations, and additions.  however not on board with this....  not now at least.

I have to agree with Micky here. Coltrane was influential, but at the moment he would seem quite out of place on ProgArchives.

Bj-1 wrote: MovingPictures07 wrote: micky wrote: zafreth wrote: Now that Miles Davis are add to PA i  think that John Coltrane deserves to be added for the following reasons:   1. He´s a really big influence in full prog groups like Magma, Soft Machine, All the jazz fusion scene. think Brubeck is an even bigger influence... on all of prog.. not just jazz orientated groups like you mention.  If we are to go down that road... would insist Brubeck be the first...  2. His playing for jazz have progressive elements like  OM and A Love Supreme. no doubt of that 3. Coltrane’s fiercely adventurous harmonic imagination is the most absorbing aspect of his developing style. 4. What makes Coltrane one the the most interesting jazz players is that he’s not apt to ever stop looking for ways to perfect what he’s already developed and also to go beyond what he knows he can do. He is thoroughly involved with plunging sa far into himself and the expressibe possibilities of his saxophone as he can. that is the prog ethos if I've ever saw it 5. Progressive Jazz?? as Progressive Metal exist. this subgenre deserve more attention. the idea is interesting.. which means it has no chance of going anywhere   And last if Iron Maiden found his way to PA, why don't Coltrane.   apples and oranges... and nothing in common.  Iron Maiden made progressive rock.. Coltrane was dead before it ever got off the ground.   If Metallica Does someday to PA, Coltrane deserves more than he have to be in PA see above the idea is an interesting one.. and nice to see jazz and jazz-orientated groups get some air time here with the discussions, evaluations, and additions.  however not on board with this....  not now at least.   I have to agree with Micky here. Coltrane was influential, but at the moment he would seem quite out of place on ProgArchives.     Yeah, I think JazzArchives should take care of this one.

Someone should make a JazzArchives.

Well i still hoping that one day Coltrane get his deserved place in PA, besides the jazzarchives seems a wonderful idea!!!

And to PA  Team think of seriously creat a jazz prog team.
 

zafreth wrote: Well i still hoping that one day Coltrane get his deserved place in PA, besides the jazzarchives seems a wonderful idea!!! And to PA  Team think of seriously creat a jazz prog team.

well....  since Coltrane ain't happening... and would have been very iffy even if there was a lot of support...

someone hit it on the head... he would be woefully out of place on this site... however... as I posted... he doesn't have to be out of place forever...


what are your thoughts on Brubeck... and don't bother with the 'if X thenY' ..  based on Brubeck's music.. .his influence.. and what you know the flow of music tastes and history.... does he merit a place here?




Edited by micky - August 16 2008 at 07:12

Don't forget (eventually) Louie. (Once John is in, and since Iron Maiden and Giraffes? Giraffes! are in.)

Edited by Ricochet - August 16 2008 at 08:04

A lot of this has already been said, but it won't stop me from repeating it:

MILES DAVIS PLAYED PROGRESSIVE ROCK. Coltrane and Brubeck did not.
It's really that simple.

Listen to Miles' albums like Agharta, Dark Magus, Pangea, Big Fun or Get Up With It, those are rock/RnB/avant-garde/futuristic African albums, not jazz albums.

Edited by Easy Money - August 16 2008 at 08:46

micky wrote: who here has said that Brubeck played 'progressive rock'... not I kind sir...I am talking about an important .. missing link.. in the proto prog category here.

I guess it depends on how far you want to stretch the definition of proto-prog. My attention span for these kind of arguments is very short so I'll just let my first post stand on it's own.

You can tell it's important because I used all caps for a change, ha ha ha.