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debrewguy 
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 Posted: July 30 2008 at 20:17 |
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Having grown up with, hung out among, and knowing more than a few long ago teenagers, I do not recall any one of them mentioning AOR as being Adult Oriented Rock. AOR was known to some extent. And as Ivan says, simply having Fleetwood Mac or Paul Simon songs on a radio station didn't mean that they couldn't be Album oriented. Both had a slew of hits. But both also had a number of pretty good album tracks that never really topped the charts as singles.
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: July 30 2008 at 21:19 |
 debrewguy wrote:
Having grown up with, hung out among, and knowing more than a few long ago teenagers, I do not recall any one of them mentioning AOR as being Adult Oriented Rock. AOR was known to some extent. And as Ivan says, simply having Fleetwood Mac or Paul Simon songs on a radio station didn't mean that they couldn't be Album oriented. Both had a slew of hits. But both also had a number of pretty good album tracks that never really topped the charts as singles. |
As a fact, Rumors is one of the top 10 albums of all times if I'm not wrong, a great album without a single filler.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 30 2008 at 21:20
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zicIy
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 02:08 |
Rumors is an album of so beautifuly composed songs, no question, but i don´t like that Lindsey Buckingham´s production of this album - i talk about that original LP sound - wasn´t so nice as these songs deserved as well, imho. great songs, but Buckingham, imho, had to given all of that to some independent producer and engeener to do it, e.g. Glyn Johns. but never mind, Rumors is still awesome Adult Oriented Rock (AOR ) an album  .
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imho, AOR, as the term, represented the style of the different albums recorded by different bands and solo artists, many of the albums issued in the period of mid 70s - mid 80s by musicians who started their careers in 60´s or early 70s. e.g. Pete Townshend´s masterpiece All The Best Cowboys Have The Chinesse Eyes - that album have nothing in common with other Townshend´s solo works, or with his work with The Who; and regarding the music and these lyrics, this is competly AOR an album. of course, there´s lot of crap in AOR, e.g. Genesis´ And Then There Were Three, imho.
AC could be just wider term of the same thing, so AC was including some jazz albums too, e.g. Grover Washigton ´s Just Two of Us, or Chuck Mangione´s Feel So Good. the same fm radio stations were playing those as they played Billy Joel´s music.
Album Oriented Rock was stopped to be valid as the term, imho, at the time when boom of Hi-Fi equipments sales get to drived adults to buy LPs (with brand new Hi-Fi system, who asking for the single???), and to listening LPs on their new stereo system. which music? ' hmmmm..... i just heard in my car that Biily Joel´s song and right now i go in a record store to buy his LPs!'
Edited by zicIy - July 31 2008 at 05:51
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Sean Trane
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 07:06 |
Ivàn,
I'm not trying to cop out, but I don't think this subject is important enough to have long debate, as you know tagging is a permanent issue in PA, but all over the web and since rock began living..... I just can't start editing the post you left me with all of those outise articles additions you made, it's confusing enough when you hand it over to me, I'll make a total messs of it.  Si I'll start a new one, which is likely my last..... unless you raise another issue that hasn't been addressed yet.... 
So you can cite me as many sources as you want and maybe you're right that Adult Oriented Radio/Rock is misusing the original AOR name, but the fact is that it happened and almost everyone did it, whether in the late 70's the 80's , the 90's and even in the 00's.... maybe completely and semantically off the bat..... but they used it. and are still using it
And schools are inventing anything they want >>> Joren's school (that the Utrecht University, not exactly a bunch of jokers) has even invented the term rock jazz genre, order to make some dubious distinction on jazz rock. To this day Joren is convinced that Miles Davis did rock-jazz instead of jazz-rock >>> go figure  .
Bullboard was in use widelyf or music professionals (it's a publication that doesn'tt really cater to fans) at least last time I leafed through one. There were hundreds of local top albums charts that influenced local buyers than the actual billboard,
So to me, I don't see much point to go further but this one:
It seems to me that this kind of subject is actually a verytense for those liking a an artiste that getrs often tagged as such, and whetherthe tag has a positive or negative tone tpo it. It's true that when people know my tastes, when I sau that HJKL is just neo -prog or XYZ is average AOR, some people will take it badly , but its not the genre that has a negative tone , but the words "just" and >"average" that give the negative conotation
So when I'm tagging Kansas as AOR (as in Adult), it's not negative at all (I think we all like some AOR >> Grand Illusion being one of my fave AOR album), but if i call Kansas just AOR or average AOR, then it can be seen as negative....
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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micky
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 08:18 |
Sean Trane wrote:
but if i call Kansas just AOR or average AOR, then it can be seen as negative....
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and people might wonder why prog fans are seen as having yardsticks up their asses... since when has AOR equated to bad music... or a negative.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 13:35 |
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um ;P classic rock ain't everyone's sacred cow
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debrewguy
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 14:01 |
laplace wrote:
um ;P classic rock ain't everyone's sacred cow |
Music as a sacred cow ? Moo explanation please ?
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Henry Plainview
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Joined: May 26 2008
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 15:46 |
micky wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
but if i call Kansas just AOR or average AOR, then it can be seen as negative....
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since when has AOR equated to bad music... or a negative. |
It's a huge negative to me. But what do I know? I like John Zorn. ;-)
debrewguy wrote:
laplace wrote:
um ;P classic rock ain't everyone's sacred cow |
Music as a sacred cow ? Moo explanation please ?
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I think what he is referring to is that people, here and elsewhere, generally regard "classic rock" as above criticism because they "defined" what rock and roll is--and the fact that their songs are still played ten times a day on the radio proves that they're good, right? It's always the old albums that top the music critics Best Ofs lists, and it's always old albums that most people will not cause people to look askance once you admit your love for them in public. The only notable exceptions I can think of are iconoclastic teenagers, who eventually grow out of being pointlessly rebellious, and naive teenagers, who have only heard Linkin Park, but will eventually like old music after the omnipresent radio/Guitar Hero pounds it into their skulls.
However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-)
As for the origins/meaning of AOR, I don't think it's honestly important enough to talk about. But who am I to judge? The whole internet is a giant waste of time anyway.
Edited by Henry Plainview - July 31 2008 at 15:58
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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The T
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 23:08 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-) |
No my prog-lover... you're neither special nor unique... you're just another side of the same coin, carved exactly in the same way as many others who also are the other side of the coin.
AOR and John Zorn, by the way, are in the end the same useless sh*t... music to hear, nothing more, nothing less....
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Henry Plainview
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Joined: May 26 2008
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Posted: July 31 2008 at 23:29 |
The T wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-) |
No my prog-lover... you're neither special nor unique... you're just another side of the same coin, carved exactly in the same way as many others who also are the other side of the coin.
AOR and John Zorn, by the way, are in the end the same useless sh*t... music to hear, nothing more, nothing less.... |
Do you not know what a wink means, or is your simply post wrapped in too many layers of sarcasm for me to penetrate?
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: August 01 2008 at 00:23 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Ivàn,
I'm not trying to cop out, but I don't think this subject is important enough to have long debate, as you know tagging is a permanent issue in PA, but all over the web and since rock began living..... I just can't start editing the post you left me with all of those outise articles additions you made, it's confusing enough when you hand it over to me, I'll make a total messs of it. Si I'll start a new one, which is likely my last..... unless you raise another issue that hasn't been addressed yet....
Don't know if inportant...But surely it's fun 
So you can cite me as many sources as you want and maybe you're right that Adult Oriented Radio/Rock is misusing the original AOR name, but the fact is that it happened and almost everyone did it, whether in the late 70's the 80's , the 90's and even in the 00's.... maybe completely and semantically off the bat..... but they used it. and are still using it
I never said it wasn't used to define Adult Contemporary, as a fact I noticed since I joined this forum that some people used this term, my point is that it's wrong and misleading.
And schools are inventing anything they want >>> Joren's school (that the Utrecht University, not exactly a bunch of jokers) has even invented the term rock jazz genre, order to make some dubious distinction on jazz rock. To this day Joren is convinced that Miles Davis did rock-jazz instead of jazz-rock >>> go figure .
No Sean, you can't doubt about everything scghools and universities teach, especially when the term AOR has at least 28 years and it's of common use in broadcasting.
Bullboard was in use widelyf or music professionals (it's a publication that doesn'tt really cater to fans) at least last time I leafed through one. There were hundreds of local top albums charts that influenced local buyers than the actual billboard,
For that reason, being of use by proffesionals, I trust more in it than in local sites manipulated by DJ's and fanboys.
So to me, I don't see much point to go further but this one:
It seems to me that this kind of subject is actually a verytense for those liking a an artiste that getrs often tagged as such, and whetherthe tag has a positive or negative tone tpo it. It's true that when people know my tastes, when I sau that HJKL is just neo -prog or XYZ is average AOR, some people will take it badly , but its not the genre that has a negative tone , but the words "just" and >"average" that give the negative conotation
The problem is that some people doesn't know what AOR really means, Adult Contemporary (The correct name) isdirected towards a minor segment of population being often soft, bland and boring, that's why using the word Adult, instead of Album, gives a wrong impression.
So when I'm tagging Kansas as AOR (as in Adult), it's not negative at all (I think we all like some AOR >> Grand Illusion being one of my fave AOR album), but if i call Kansas just AOR or average AOR, then it can be seen as negative....
Well, Kansas is not AOR, it has been lumped into Adult Contemporary by people who only heard a coiuple of songs.
Iván
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The T
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Joined: October 16 2006
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Posted: August 01 2008 at 02:05 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
The T wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-) |
No my prog-lover... you're neither special nor unique... you're just another side of the same coin, carved exactly in the same way as many others who also are the other side of the coin.
AOR and John Zorn, by the way, are in the end the same useless sh*t... music to hear, nothing more, nothing less.... |
Do you not know what a wink means, or is your simply post wrapped in too many layers of sarcasm for me to penetrate? |
Yes... my post is special... and unique..... ;-) It takes a lot of deep digging to find the hidden truth.... ;-).....
Edited by The T - August 01 2008 at 02:08
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: August 01 2008 at 02:44 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20401
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Posted: August 01 2008 at 09:14 |
Ivàn,
I'm not trying to cop out, but I don't think this subject is important enough to have long debate, as you know tagging is a permanent issue in PA, but all over the web and since rock began living..... I just can't start editing the post you left me with all of those outise articles additions you made, it's confusing enough when you hand it over to me, I'll make a total messs of it. Si I'll start a new one, which is likely my last..... unless you raise another issue that hasn't been addressed yet....
Don't know if inportant...But surely it's fun . Well you know I enjoy a good debate, but these musical genres debates have been flogged to death and until we get multi-genre belonging for groups and artistes in PA (not likely soon, either ), then having debates like these is not that useful....
So you can cite me as many sources as you want and maybe you're right that Adult Oriented Radio/Rock is misusing the original AOR name, but the fact is that it happened and almost everyone did it, whether in the late 70's the 80's , the 90's and even in the 00's.... maybe completely and semantically off the bat..... but they used it. and are still using it
I never said it wasn't used to define Adult Contemporary, as a fact I noticed since I joined this forum that some people used this term, my point is that it's wrong and misleading.. I recognise the lawyer and his use of semantics , but isn't this like fughting windmills?????? I mean it's a lost cause. Like the people from Brussels getting sick of hearing that Brussels decided this or that on the TV news, when they mean the European Commission...... Thousands of reminders have been sent to have journalist make the distinction between the EEC and the city....., but to no avail >> a lost cause. In 20 years time, the public will still call AOR adult Oriented Rock.
And schools are inventing anything they want >>> Joren's school (that the Utrecht University, not exactly a bunch of jokers) has even invented the term rock jazz genre, order to make some dubious distinction on jazz rock. To this day Joren is convinced that Miles Davis did rock-jazz instead of jazz-rock >>> go figure .
No Sean, you can't doubt about everything schools and universities teach, especially when the term AOR has at least 28 years and it's of common use in broadcasting. >> Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting systematically schools, but have you ever heard of  rock-jazz , while maintoning that jazz-rock is a sifferent thing????
Bullboard was in use widelyf or music professionals (it's a publication that doesn'tt really cater to fans) at least last time I leafed through one. There were hundreds of local top albums charts that influenced local buyers than the actual billboard,
For that reason, being of use by proffesionals, I trust more in it than in local sites manipulated by DJ's and fanboys. >>> f course they are more trustworthy in the lawyer in you, but you're not reading Billboards to read up on a band's history right??? You're reading magazines that use AOR for Adult Oriented Rock (even if semantically wrong) like Mojo, Q, Classic Rock (they make AOR one of theirbattle horse)
So to me, I don't see much point to go further but this one:
It seems to me that this kind of subject is actually a verytense for those liking a an artiste that getrs often tagged as such, and whetherthe tag has a positive or negative tone tpo it. It's true that when people know my tastes, when I sau that HJKL is just neo -prog or XYZ is average AOR, some people will take it badly , but its not the genre that has a negative tone , but the words "just" and >"average" that give the negative conotation
The problem is that some people doesn't know what AOR really means >>> my point exactl y..... this is the majoruty of people, the Mr Everybody........, Adult Contemporary (The correct name) is directed towards a minor segment of population being often soft, bland and boring, that's why using the word Adult, instead of Album, gives a wrong impression. >>> Agaion we're agreeing but under different terms. Ibut don't see a negative slant to"Adult" at all.......... Jacques Brel could enter the AC bracket and he's anything BUT boring.....
So when I'm tagging Kansas as AOR (as in Adult), it's not negative at all (I think we all like some AOR >> Grand Illusion being one of my fave AOR album), but if i call Kansas just AOR or average AOR, then it can be seen as negative....
Well, Kansas is not AOR, it has been lumped into Adult Contemporary by people who only heard a coiuple of songs. As I said, nobody called Kansas AOP when Leftoverture was their latest album (unless using Album OR, which they would then qualify)....... but once Dust In TheWind happened, it's another ballgame.......
Iván
Hugues
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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|
Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: August 01 2008 at 14:39 |
The T wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
The T wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-) |
No my prog-lover... you're neither special nor unique... you're just another side of the same coin, carved exactly in the same way as many others who also are the other side of the coin.
AOR and John Zorn, by the way, are in the end the same useless sh*t... music to hear, nothing more, nothing less.... |
Do you not know what a wink means, or is your simply post wrapped in too many layers of sarcasm for me to penetrate? |
Yes... my post is special... and unique..... ;-) It takes a lot of deep digging to find the hidden truth.... ;-)..... |
What? I have no idea what the hell you are trying to convey in either of those posts.
micky wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
But what do I know? I like John Zorn. ;-) |
quoted for wisdom   |
If someone has such absymal taste that he enjoys free jazz, it's only responsible that they warn everyone else beforehand. Otherwise someone could get hurt!
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: August 01 2008 at 18:47 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Well you know I enjoy a good debate, but these musical genres debates have been flogged to death and until we get multi-genre belonging for groups and artistes in PA (not likely soon, either), then having debates like these is not that useful....
I agree, every debate is useful, if the least, we learn something always.
I recognise the lawyer and his use of semantics, but isn't this like fughting windmills?????? I mean it's a lost cause. Like the people from Brussels getting sick of hearing that Brussels decided this or that on the TV news, when they mean the European Commission...... Thousands of reminders have been sent to have journalist make the distinction between the EEC and the city....., but to no avail >> a lost cause. In 20 years time, the public will still call AOR adult Oriented Rock.
There I disagree, I haven't heard the term Adult Oriented Rock until I joined this forum in 200'4, before that I only heard Album Oriented Rock and as I told you, I worked oin an AOR radio.
>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting systematically schools, but have you ever heard of rock-jazz , while maintoning that jazz-rock is a sifferent thing????
That's absurd of course, but yu can't judge everyboody for a wrong situuation.
>>> f course they are more trustworthy in the lawyer in you, but you're not reading Billboards to read up on a band's history right??? You're reading magazines that use AOR for Adult Oriented Rock (even if semantically wrong) like Mojo, Q, Classic Rock (they make AOR one of theirbattle horse)
I don't read Mojo, but Classic Rock Magazine uis described as a magazine that started as Album Oriented Rock andevolved, you can Googfle it.
>>> my point exactly..... this is the majoruty of people, the Mr Everybody........,
Honestly, I heard Album Oriented Rock much more and long befote than Adult Oriented Rock, so Mr, Everybody believes it's Album, only a missinformed minority goes wih the other option
. >>> Agaion we're agreeing but under different terms. Ibut don't see a negative slant to"Adult" at all.......... Jacques Brel could enter the AC bracket and he's anything BUT boring.....
Not negative for you and me who are adults a long time ago , but negative for the vast majority of music buyers who will never buy somethoig oriented to adults.
So when I'm tagging Kansas as AOR (as in Adult), it's not negative at all (I think we all like some AOR >> Grand Illusion being one of my fave AOR album), but if i call Kansas just AOR or average AOR, then it can be seen as negative....
. As I said, nobody called Kansas AOP when Leftoverture was their latest album (unless using Album OR, which they would then qualify)....... but once Dust In TheWind happened, it's another ballgame.......
That's what I say, people who heard only Dust in the Wind can call Kansas AOR, but that's a sign that this guys know nothng about music.
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 01 2008 at 18:48
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
So when did AOR really start?
