So when did AOR really start?

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Topic: So when did AOR really start?

Posted By: Garion81
Subject: So when did AOR really start?
Date Posted: July 24 2008 at 02:13

I have heard this from many poster "this sounds AOR and that sounds AOR" so I am wondering when do you all think AOR started? I actually hear that statement mostly from Euro posters although there are some American posters expressing the same sentiment regarding American late 70's bands that received airplay. My point is Kansas and Styx get lumped into this even early Journey that in my mind have nothing to do with later Journey, 80's Styx and Kansas, Boston or Foreigner (which was an English group).

So what is that makes AOR to you and answer the following questions so I understand

1. Any tenor vocal makes it AOR

2. Any American band with keyboards and tenor vocals makes it AOR

3. Any American band with tenor vocals, keyboards and hit singles makes it AOR regradless of their total output which might change my opinion if I really listened to it.

Answer Honestly.

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Replies:

Posted By: zicIy
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 02:45

Fleetwood Mac´s albums as Rumors and Tusk are coming in mind as well. also, Little Feat´s Time Loves A Hero the album and their great live album Waiting for Columbus.

Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 08:46

I though AOR refered to the way radio stations played non-hit singles and instead played other songs from the same albums? What does this have to do with the artists themselves?

Posted By: the_binkster
Date Posted: July 27 2008 at 16:49

when the existence of rock and adults first coincided...

Posted By: zicIy
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 02:22

i agree. i think, it fall in the time of Punk Hysteria. Adults were like to listen, for example, Jefferson Starship´s Red Octopus the album, but not Punk at all (appart from some adult Punk fans who were .... ).

Posted By: spookytooth
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 10:58

I find it funny that some of the bands put under the label "AOR" in the late 70's early 80's actually tend to be more singles-oriented than album-oriented...

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Posted By: paolo.beenees
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 11:08

I have a problem with the shortening AOR: sometimes it is explained as "Adult Oriented Rock", some other times as "Album Oriented Rock". That makes a difference!

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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 11:11

Certainly post Peter Green Fleetwood Mac were there from very near the start - possibly from the Bob Welch period. Then Jefferson Airplane/Starship upon giving up the politics . So I would argue 1972 - 4. Evenso you can hear American bands in 1970 producing both examples of pseudo prog and early AOR, e.g. American Gypsy, perhaps even Grand Funk Railroad. Then from what ended up as hit singles/LPs in the UK, the Californian/West Coast rock scene was the epitomy of this - let's again blame Geffen for some of this..... Journey with its first 2 or 3 albums didn't seem AOR, (indeed slightly baffling, Kerrang's Guide to Heavy Rock list Journey's early albums as "jazz rock"????) , but subsequently the drive for singles chart success have them move into that space. Was Foreigner completely British? But there is something about drive time friendly rock on FM stations. In The UK in the 70's, Alan Freeman's Saturday afternoon Rock Show (replaced John Peels' Top Gear?), got itself into a rather complacent situation after a few years, with a preponderance of AOR that many of us in student radio stations, would accuse dull fellow djs as playing music like Fluff's Saturday Show.

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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 11:12

paolo.beenees wrote:

I have a problem with the shortening AOR: sometimes it is explained as "Adult Oriented Rock", some other times as "Album Oriented Rock". That makes a difference!

'Any old rock', as a distant 4th

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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 11:23

paolo.beenees wrote:

I have a problem with the shortening AOR: sometimes it is explained as "Adult Oriented Rock", some other times as "Album Oriented Rock". That makes a difference!

That's a common mistake, AOR has absolutely no relation with adults, that's a derogatory term coined by some pompous guys who really never understood the term.

AOR started in the early 70's as a broadcasting term for ALBUM ORIENTED RADIO aka FM, (No propaganda at the beginning and were able to present full albums due to their different format) In opposition with the am stations who were based in hit singles and huge amount of advertising.

Then the music that was presented in those radios was called ALBUM ORIENTED ROCK, and believe it or not, the first AOR music was Progressive Rock, because as a genre didn't cared for hit singles but for album production.

In the late 70's between the decadence of Symphonic Prog and the birth of Neo Prog, the term AOR was applied to bands who released album based music but wasn't Prog, some fools called it Adult Oriented Rock, but that was a bastardization of the term.

Iván

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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 12:18

Ivan's got it pretty much settled. The misconception that AOR means Adult Oriented Rock is based on the actual tag that should be applied to the music mentioned - Adult Contemporary, or in some cases MOR (Middle of the Road).
As Ivan states, prog and many of the early 70s rock heavyweights (Zep, Floyd, et al) were there when the nascent FM stations were playing music beyond the hit singles. Indeed, many of these bands' "hits" are seen as such in hindsight (Roundabout, Wish You Were Here, Aqualung), as they weren't top 40 material.
So AOR meant that you got to hear Brain Damage, Karn Evil, Toys in the Attic, Flirtin' with Disaster, Close to the Edge, Smokin', StarRider, Another Brick in the Wall parts I, II, AND III all together; along with many other non-hits.
You may see that some were from bands that enjoyed mainstream platinum success. But the point was really the chance to hear something other than, for example - Foreigner - the top 40 stations played Cold as Ice, AOR might play I Need You and Long Way From Home.
And until it became over-programmed as with any money making proposition, it did break many an act that couldn't get airplay on more mainstream stations.
Too bad that we don't see the same "experimentation" today other than on services like XM, SIrius, Internet Radio (can't get it in my car, eh), or college/community stations. In all these cases, though, the programming is usually niche. Which means that there's less of a chance for a music fan to stumble across a song or band that they normally wouldn't have listened to.

You may notice that

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Posted By: zicIy
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 01:27

Billy Joel´s music is AOR. He´s albums as Streetlife Serenade, Turnstiles, The Stranger, and 52nd Street are very nice examples what adults (not only them, of course) were listening in 70´s. AOR was the perfect music for so many of 40 yrs old successfuly guys and gals , who were listening music for relax when they came to some bar or to home from their jobs .i think i mentioned good AOR style albums on this thread, includes these by Joel- which completly catalogue is AOR.

so, imho, i think that AOR really start 1975-1976.

btw, i think that David Bowie´s Young Americans is great AOR album, although this album had to be some kind of parody at original, as i read an article about the album aswell.

my fav AOR album is Steely Dan´s Gaucho.

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 10:23

zicIy wrote:

so, imho, i think that AOR really start 1975-1976.

btw, i think that David Bowie´s Young Americans is great AOR album, although this album had to be some kind of parody at original, as i read an article about the album aswell.

my fav AOR album is Steely Dan´s Gaucho.

Exactly!! or as close to it as I've read it in this thread.

I agree with Ivan's statement about AOR being Album Oriented Rock/Radio up to certain point in the 70's But I definitely he's got it wrong in his last paragraph!! Sorry buddy!!

By the mid of the 70's, most of the US and Canadian Album-oriented Radios stations (this meant FM, not AM) were doing bad because of too few revenues (too few time for commercials in between commercials adds and too much competition (radios multiplied in the 70's) that some of them were either faced with bankrupcy of increasing advertising revenues.

In a first time they started turning to shorter songs (this wasn't hard >> Bowie, Aerosmith, etc???) then turned softer rock l(ike Steely Dan, Doobie Bros, later FM etc....) because the advertisers started telling them thay adults were more affluent (money-wise) and the radio landscape changed dramatically in a few years...... The Album OR FM stations modified to Adult OR FM stations and AM radio stations came in the fold as well so Adult O Radios were note just portraying FM stations, but AM ones as well (Toronto had the infamous CHUM and CHUM-FM stations, which were by the early 80's playing the same AOR bullsh*t)

The term Adult Oriented Rock/Radio WAS (and sitll is) used very often back then - sorry Ivàn, you can tell me otherwise as much as you want, I've been familiar with these terms ever since I got into music (that's about 75) and I learned many years later about Album OR - and these adult-oriented radios were playing many more tracks an hour than trheir former selves, thus ensuring better rotation and exposure for the music THEY (the radio stations) chose to play to affluent adults, who then were buying the records. They started telling the groups about how their songs should be formated if they wanted regular airplay....On top of getting the usual payola

......... this was a vicious circle, because most of the groups obliged and the older gards were costing millions in expensive albums that were increasingly difficult (ELP comes to mind) and with punk coming in Stranglers, Blondie Television, Ramones etc...... you know that part right????

Notice I haven't spoken of Adult O Rock bands yet, but it's coming..... progminded bands like Journey were thrown an ultimatum after their third album: accept Steve Perry as singer AND songwriter or lose on your CBS contract. The Doobies Bros had some similar pressure to accept Michael McDonald in their fold and their atrocious Minute By Minute got major airplay >>> thus producing Adult Oriented Rock!!! I used these two groups because for me Journey's Departure and DB's NBN are the ulmtimate AOR-sounding album, (even, more so the FM's Rumours) on which every other album was based. Of course other previously released albums also fit the radio-friendly mould like Foreigner, Steely Dan (back in 76 & 73 respectively, but they were retrospectively tagged). but also most early Glam Rock (-Roxy, Bowie, Mott TH etc....) could be retrospectively tagged AOR, as did most singer/songwriters (like Springsteen, Billy Joel, Rafferty, Al stewart or Tom Petty), but not the groups sounding way too hard rock (Aerosmith, Nazareth or BOC)......

And this is were buddy Ivàn (and to a lesser extent Bryan/Garion) become edgy

, but Kansas got caught in that AOR labelling from Point Of Know Return onwards (Leftoverture's two major airplay songs were simply too long to fit AOR, but Dust In The Wind certainly wasn't)...... and later albums gave the taggers right. Funny also Bad Company (75-83) is called AOR but Free (68-73) is never so....although it's very much the same continuity. Another strange example is that the Eagles have very few "greatest hits" or other compilations albums is that they really built their early albums as albums and not just a collection of songs and have refused much of the offers of compilations taking tracks out of the album context.... they considered themselves an album band where the radios couldn't have carted less about their albums as a whole and wanted songs (well they couldn't avoid Hotel California like they coudn't ignore FM's Rumours.

At the same time, the first top 100 or 1000 list of songs or albums started coming out in those years and they started making countdown, playing the songs for the top songs, but playing only one song for the albums >>> Adult Oriented Rock not album Oriented Rock

Its funny to notice that some AOR radios were playing the single versions and others were playing the album version of the track (the most blatant was Bob Seger's Night Moves or the two versions (long and short) of Hotel California

Hopefully this will take care of this issue once and for all.

Album Oriented Radio >>> existed >> tranformed into Adult Oriented Radio by the mid-70's

Album Oriented Rock >>> existed >> was rouighly early 70's prog >>> but only seldomly used since most groups either died or gave in.to the demands ...

Adult Oriented Radio >>> existed >> this applied to both FM and AM radios in the later 70's

Adult Oriented Rock >>> existed >> a creation of radios wxanting more commercial and formated radio-friendly rock songs

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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 13:50

Sean Trane wrote:

Album Oriented Radio >>> existed >> tranformed into Adult Oriented Radio by the mid-70's Agree, mid/late 70's

Album Oriented Rock >>> existed >> was rouighly early 70's prog >>> but only seldomly used since most groups either died or gave in.to the demands ...Agree, ut it was mostly known as FM

Adult Oriented Radio >>> existed >> this applied to both FM and AM radios in the later 70's Wrong, you are talking about ADULT CONTEMPORARY RADIOS OR AC RADIOS

Adult Oriented Rock >>> existed >> a creation of radios wxanting more commercial and formated radio-friendly rock songs Wrong, you are talking about ADULT CONTEMPORARY MUSIC OR AC MUSIC

Sorry Sean, but you are making the dame mistake as most people:

AOR: Is clearñy defined in every piece of musical literature, broadcasting manual or Internet Rock site as ALBUM ORIENTED ROCK OR ALBUM PRIENTED RADIO, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. What we define as AOR in the late 70's is a variety of Album Oriented Music that evolved from the early 70's AOR (That was mainly Prog), taking all the Prog elements but keeping the same ALBUM format,. the problem is that Prog already had an own denomination and this music had no name, sop people started calñling AOR, exclusively to that music and blended abnother term.
AC: Adult Contemporary, it's more or less the music of the past generation, in other words Rock Music without the lates fashion, AQC radios of today play everything except Rap and Hip Hop.

Please abnswer a question: How can AOR be Adult Oriented Musicif the moist representative bands of AOR were STYX and BOSTON?:

STYX (The Grabnd Illusion) was N°6 in 1977 as album but also:had this top 10 hits:
1. Come Sail Away reached N° 8 in the Billboard
2. Fooling Yourself reached N° 29
STYX Pieces of Eight reached N° 6 in 1978, but also the hit singles
1. Renegade N° 16
2. Sing For a Day N° 40
STYX Cornerstone reached N°2 in 1979, but also the hit singles:
1. Babe reached N° 1
STYX Paradise Theater reached N°1 in 1981, but slao the hit singlñes:
1. The Best of Times: N° 3 POP SINGLES Billboard
2. Too Much Time on My Hands: N° 9 POP Billboarf Single
3. Rockin the Paradise N° 8 POP Billboard soingles
Boston self titled album was N° 3 of Billboard in 1976, but also the hit singles:
1. More than a Feeling: N° 5 in Billboard Pop singles
2. Piece of Mind: N° 38 in the Billboard Pop singles
Boston Don't Look Back was N° 1 album of Billboard
1. Don't Look Back was Pop hit single N° 4 on Billboard
2. A Man I'll Never Be: Reached N° 31 on Pop hits in 1979

So this bands were not Adult oriented, Adults don't make the charts, kids make the charts, this bands were massive, no relation with Adult oriented music, it was oriented towards everybody.

On the other hand AC or Adult Contemporary is music directed to adults, because it's not the latest fashion:

Adult contemporary music, frequently abbreviated AC, is a type of radio format that plays mainstream contemporary popular music, excluding hip hop, hard rock, some teen pop music and rhythmic dance tracks (though during the 2000s, these have been included), which is intended for a mature adult audience. Radio stations playing this format will often target 16-54 year-olds, the group most valued by advertisers. AC is generally divided into 4 groups; "Hot AC," also known as "Adult Top 40," "Soft AC," also known as CLite," "Urban AC," "Religious AC." Some radio stations play only Hot AC; some play only Soft AC, and some play both. Thus it is not usually considered a specific genre of music, since it is merely an assembly of selected tracks of musicians of many different genres.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music

As a fact, many of the bands previously mentioned in this thread, are in the list of AC Music (Adult Contemporary:

Some core soft adult contemporary artists

This list includes the most played artists in the United States, starting with the most played, in the soft Adult Contemporary format from January 2007 through December 2007

Elton John
Rod Stewart
Kelly Clarkson
Doobie Brothers
Eagles
Billy Joel
Rob Thomas/Matchbox Twenty
Fleetwood Mac
Phil Collins
Madonna
Bryan Adams
Chicago
Sheryl Crow
John Mellencamp
Faith Hill
Mariah Carey
Spice Girls

Celine Dion
Eric Clapton
Commodores
Bee Gees
The Police
Cher
Daniel Powter
Bob Seger
Michael Bublé
Josh Groban
Stevie Wonder
Brian McKnight
Jewel
P!nk
Delta Goodrem
Christina Aguilera

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music

The Doobie Brothers, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and Billy Joel are clearly mentioned as AC music, not as AOR, in the case of Billy Joel is more cleear, his music is directed not to the very young. but obviously to adults.

So I believe that ADULT Oriented Rock is a hybrid betwen Album Oriented Rock and Adult Contemporary, or as I said befoire, a bastardization of the term.

Iván

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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 20:35

I think Ivan's still right. Billy Joel did have a few song on Album Oriented Rock. But that's from The Stranger and 52nd Street. Once he got oh a roll of radio hits, he became more Adult contemporary/top 40/MOR.
The fact that Steely Dan & the Doobies were on Adult stations just shows the variety of their music. Both still play on "Classic Rock" stations AND Oldies, but they aren't Zep, Floyd, Donny Osmond, or Christopher Cross.
Album Oriented Rock, once it faced stiffer competition from AM Radio, and more commercially minded FM stations, started narrowing its programming to keep & increase market share. Eventually, the programming became so constricted that it could have been called TOP 40 FM, with very few "deep" album cuts being played. Add to that that many acts that had benefited from the original concept, like Styx, Supertramp, Queen, Kansas, Foreigner, Boston et al, were starting to put out a string of actual hit singles, in the sense of topping sales charts. And being that many songs were of the "softer" type, the stations morphed into Adult Rock. There were several versions for sure. Adult Oriented Rock was one, but typically it was called Adult Contemporary, MOR (Middle of the Road), Adult Pop, but AOR as being Adult Oriented Rock didn't stick as a description too long.
Eventually you had the emerging "Classic Rock" programming, which tended towards more of the hard rock/metal end of things; with a lot of the classic 60s & 70s bands (the Doors, Beatles, Floyd, Zep etc). It also included a fair amount of prog like Yes, Tull, Supertramp, Genesis, early Gabriel. And what had briefly gone from Album to Adult oriented became Adult contemporary, Soft/Light/ heck even Office Rock (the station everyone can agree to Dead

).

But Adult Oriented Rock was at best a very transient description of the musical programming an FM station offered. It was more a media term used as the old Album bands mentioned above moved into more pop music. And, for those who remember, there were some "sensitive listeners" who thought that Album Oriented Radio meant hard rock music. So while switching, you kept the acronym to keep some, changed the music to attract others, then called it something different to draw in a new target market - the "older" crowd who couldn't stand loud guitars or raucous music anymore.
You could see the same marketing contortions to differentiate a period's mainstream "commercial country music - the Nashville Sound, Urban Country, New Country/New Tradionalists and finally today's Contemporary Country. Each one had no interest in the previous radio and sales successes of the artists, and each eventually lost out to the next "wave".

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Posted By: sircosick
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 21:52

No mentions for Queen yet?

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The best you can is good enough...

Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 23:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCYIiHAhIdo -

^ Exactly ! Queen, Deep Purple (David Coverdale) Uriah Heep, Bad Company, Post Hackett Genesis are perfcvt examples of British AOR that never seems to get lumped into the American AOR model and yet it is even more so than Early Styx and Kansas. I have even read where this song is great except for the AOR Vocals. ( I say this because the term was used as a put down)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCYIiHAhIdo

or this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QJvlPeP-nc&feature=related

or this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU7Z62i-Vfs&feature=related

I have also read this band lacks the songwritting skills of other bands and used studio techniques to hide that. I find it totally inaccurate and iressponsible. I offer these examples to prove that is not true.

PS If the font is underlined I don't know why!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCYIiHAhIdo -

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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 06:07

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Sean Trane wrote:

Album Oriented Radio >>> existed >> tranformed into Adult Oriented Radio by the mid-70's Agree, mid/late 70's

Album Oriented Rock >>> existed >> was rouighly early 70's prog >>> but only seldomly used since most groups either died or gave in.to the demands ...Agree, ut it was mostly known as FM

Adult Oriented Radio >>> existed >> this applied to both FM and AM radios in the later 70's Wrong, you are talking about ADULT CONTEMPORARY RADIOS OR AC RADIOS >>> Sorry I never heard this name used >> it's the first time I hear of it presented this way

Adult Oriented Rock >>> existed >> a creation of radios wxanting more commercial and formated radio-friendly rock songs Wrong, you are talking about ADULT CONTEMPORARY MUSIC OR AC MUSIC >>> Sorry I never heard this name used >> it's the first time I hear of it presented this way

Sorry Sean, but you are making the same mistake as most people:

AOR: Is clearñy defined in every piece of musical literature, broadcasting manual or Internet Rock site as ALBUM ORIENTED ROCK OR ALBUM PRIENTED RADIO, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. What we define as AOR in the late 70's is a variety of Album Oriented Music that evolved from the early 70's AOR (That was mainly Prog), taking all the Prog elements but keeping the same ALBUM format,. the problem is that Prog already had an own denomination and this music had no name, sop people started calñling AOR, exclusively to that music and blended abnother term. >>> again: I have been familiar with Adult Oriented Radio/Rock since 75 and I haven't invented it. Weall know there are plenty of reviosionist in all kinds of histories, including music. Thre are plenty of people who will write history book saying invading Irak was a good thing, while you'll find hundreds saying it was a mistake..... and both will cite facts and purposely forgetting what doesn't fit their theories or what doesn't suit their preference
AC: Adult Contemporary, it's more or less the music of the past generation, in other words Rock Music without the lates fashion, AQC radios of today play everything except Rap and Hip Hop. >>> How do you explain that I've never heard of it???? (although I might have before but it never struck me as anything else than another name for Adult Oriented Rock)

Please abnswer a question: How can AOR be Adult Oriented Musicif the moist representative bands of AOR were STYX and BOSTON?: >>> says who???? I told you in my previous posts which were the most AOR-typed groups (Foreigner, Journey, SD, late Doobies,

STYX (The Grand Illusion) was N°6 in 1977 as album but also:had this top 10 hits:
1. Come Sail Away reached N° 8 in the Billboard
2. Fooling Yourself reached N° 29
3. In Canada, Miss America was also a hit (maybe not a single), but the whole album got airplay
STYX Pieces of Eight reached N° 6 in 1978, but also the hit singles
1. Renegade N° 16
2. Sing For a Day N° 40
3. Blue Collar Man & Queen of Spades were also hits and the whole album got airplay
STYX Cornerstone reached N°2 in 1979, but also the hit singles:
1. Babe reached N° 1
2. Boat on A River was also a hit (maybe not a single), but this time most of the rest of the album got ignored
STYX Paradise Theater reached N°1 in 1981, but aslo the hit singlñes:
1. The Best of Times: N° 3 POP SINGLES Billboard
2. Too Much Time on My Hands: N° 9 POP Billboarf Single
3. Rockin the Paradise N° 8 POP Billboard soingles
4. the radios ignored the rest of the albums
Boston self titled album was N° 3 of Billboard in 1976, but also the hit singles:
1. More than a Feeling: N° 5 in Billboard Pop singles
2. Piece of Mind: N° 38 in the Billboard Pop singles
3. The rest of the album got major airplay, most kids of then are familiar with the huge majority of the songs even if they didn't buy the album >>>Foreplay / Long Time, Rock & Roll Band, Smokin', let me take you home tonight
Boston Don't Look Back was N° 1 album of Billboard
1.Don't Look Back was Pop hit single N° 4 on Billboard
1. A Man I'll Never Be: Reached N° 31 on Pop hits in 1979
2. the radios mostly ignored the rest of the album

So this bands were not Adult oriented, Adults don't make the charts, kids make the charts, this bands were massive, no relation with Adult oriented music, it was oriented towards everybody. >>> Radios make the charts, by pounding souns in your brains and brainwashing you over with repeated listens.... then everyone goes and buy what they heard.

What your point miss is the regional disparities

The Chum (AM) people was adult and the CHUM FM was for kids, but the sales were combined into one chart, which THEY compiled (these charts changed from stations to stations, they didn't care about the Billboards, which was relevant to the recording industry establishment in the offices)...... CHUM FM (104.1) and CILQ (107.1 or Q107) had "similar" (the chart placements were not the same) charts because direct competition while Chum AM had different charts.... Which where completely different from radio stations in Calgary (with lots more country rock domination) and even with CHOM in Montreal (which integrated Quebec rock as well). Hell I'm not even sure some radios askled records stores for sales while making their charts.

On the other hand AC or Adult Contemporary is music directed to adults, because it's not the latest fashion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music

Pure reviosionism >>> I also told to be careful quoting Wikipedia >>> they don't verify enough the contributor's source, unless someone bothers to make a correction.......

As a fact, many of the bands previously mentioned in this thread, are in the list of AC Music (Adult Contemporary:

Some core soft adult contemporary artists

This list includes the most played artists in the United States, starting with the most played, in the soft Adult Contemporary format from January 2007 through December 2007

Elton John
Rod Stewart
Kelly Clarkson
Doobie Brothers
Eagles
Billy Joel
Rob Thomas/Matchbox Twenty
Fleetwood Mac
Phil Collins
Madonna
Bryan Adams
Chicago
Sheryl Crow
John Mellencamp
Faith Hill
Mariah Carey
~~Spice Girls~~

Celine Dion
Eric Clapton
Commodores
Bee Gees
~~The Police~~
Cher
Daniel Powter
Bob Seger
Bruce Springsteen
Josh Groban
Stevie Wonder
Brian McKnight
Jewel
~~P!nk~~
Delta Goodrem
Christina Aguilera

~~Light Blue~~ >>> not AOR AC or MOR (shoul be taken out of the list)

Pink: MOR (not "rock" music per se)

Dark Blue : AOR (rock music)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music

Again, while this list contains as much MOR than AOR artistes and some should never be in this category (thinking of Pink and Spice girls that caters to young girls). We're back at Wiki's credibility here....... If you remember not too long ago this list included Zep and Purple, and it was you that made them take it away

To AC (you'll agree it doesn't mention rock in its name) means MOR (Middle Of The Road >>> again no rock mentioned), which means a b*****dized music somewhere in the middle of what is called mainstream, for adults who don't care if the rock elements

So I believe that ADULT Oriented Rock is a hybrid betwen Album Oriented Rock and Adult Contemporary, or as I said befoire, a bastardization of the term.

Iván

Ivàn, over 95% of the US and North American that have heard the acronym AOR think of Adult Oriented Rock...... Whether they are right semantically or not , we'll probably never agree, and if you want to take this crusade where you'll fight most everyone >> you might even win this fight , but the fact is that the generalpublic will still discuss AOR as Adult and not Album...... But stating that AOR never meant Adult Oriented Rock/Radio is simply wrong..... as said above 95% of North Americans think it the way I do..

So I would stress that MOR and AC might mean the same thing, but both take the "rock"' label out, while groups like Journey , Kansas and Boston are clearly " rock" >> in the sense that Adult Oriented Rock is.

So if you want to include them under the AC umbrella, be my gues!!!!! I couldn't care less, really

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 06:07

interesting thread Brian.... don't remember the book I read it in....but tossing it out there. AOR started when N. American prog or semi-prog acts such as... Styx, Kansas, Journey stripped down, or dumbed down if you will LOL

their music and found success on the charts and filled stadiums. An offshoot of prog is what he called it if I remember right... probably not too far off the mark.

and as I've mentioned in other threads... we can bitch about Kansas being lumped into AOR ... yet how many bands do we lump in to labels that don't exactly fit them either. Funny... Kansas is not known as a prog band... neither is Genesis...... yet far too many here love to use the 'not known as' to disregard other groups. Tags ..tags ...tags.. pfffff... LOL

new additions coming to this site are going to put an end to that.... people need to listen... not label... or worse yet .... quote what others.. or other sites have 'labelled' others as.

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 13:11

Sean Trane wrote:

Nice, another chance to debate with my friend Sean

The fact you haven't heard about Adult Contemporary (Category that is awarded in the Grammys and considered in the Billboards), doesn't make them less real.

Sorry Sean, but you are making the same mistake as most people:

>>> again: I have been familiar with Adult Oriented Radio/Rock since 75 and I haven't invented it. Weall know there are plenty of reviosionist in all kinds of histories, including music. Thre are plenty of people who will write history book saying invading Irak was a good thing, while you'll find hundreds saying it was a mistake..... and both will cite facts and purposely forgetting what doesn't fit their theories or what doesn't suit their preference

Yes Sean, but even in the universities and Broadcasting schools AOR means Album Oriented Radio or Album Oriented Rock, I know it, I worked in an AOR radio and we passed from Boston to Emerson Lake & Palmer, I was allowed to make a special about Triumvirat, our advertising format of 5 minutes every 20 minutes (variable) allowed us to perform a complete side of an album.

Plus, as you will see later ADULT CONTEMPORARY Is an officially accepted term, something never happened with Adult Oriented Rock, because it never existed.

. >>> How do you explain that I've never heard of it???? (although I might have before but it never struck me as anything else than another name for Adult Oriented Rock)

It means you are not informed about it, that's the only thing that could mean, and I'll prove you it's completely accepted:

1.- http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/index.jsp">

Hot Adult Contemporary Tracks

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=Hot+Adult+Contemporary+Tracks - http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=Hot+Adult+Contemporary+Tracks

2.- 37 Brits 2001 Hits: Brit Awards 2001

Artist: Various Artists

Release Date: Feb 20, 2001

Label: Sony International

Genre: http://music.msn.com/music/genre-albums/pop/ - Pop

Styles: http://music.msn.com/music/subgenre-albums/pop/alternative-pop-rock/ - Alternative Pop/Rock , http://music.msn.com/music/genre-albums/rap-and-hip-hop/ - Rap & Hip-Hop , http://music.msn.com/music/genre-albums/rock/ - Rock , http://music.msn.com/music/genre-albums/soul-and-randb/ - Soul and R&B , http://music.msn.com/music/genre-albums/dance/ - Dance , http://music.msn.com/music/genre-albums/electronica/ - Electronica , http://music.msn.com/music/subgenre-albums/pop/adult-alternative-pop-rock/ - Adult Alternative Pop/Rock , http://music.msn.com/music/genre-albums/alternative/ - Alternative , http://music.msn.com/music/subgenre-albums/dance/club-dance/ - Club/Dance , http://music.msn.com/music/subgenre-albums/dance/dance-pop/ - Dance Pop , http://music.msn.com/music/subgenre-albums/electronica/techno/ - Techno , http://music.msn.com/music/subgenre-albums/pop/adult-contemporary/ - Adult Contemporary , http://music.msn.com/music/subgenre-albums/soul-and-randb/urban/ - Urban , http://music.msn.com/music/subgenre-albums/rap-and-hip-hop/classic-old-school-hip-hop/ - Classic/Old School Hip-Hop , http://music.msn.com/music/subgenre-albums/soul-and-randb/contemporary-rand-b/ - Contemporary R& B

3.- 2005 Music Video Production Association Award: Adult Contemporary Video of the Year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCH1RYWlE4 - Walk Tall

http://blogs.heraldtimesonline.com/mb/?p=90 - http://blogs.heraldtimesonline.com/mb/?p=90

Sean, the Billboard Magazine, the Britt Awards and the Music Video Association consider ADULT CONTEMPORARY as a category, if you didn't heard the term it only means you're uninformed.

BTW: The Language of Music - Dictionary and Research Guide defines AOR:

Album-oriented rock

Album-oriented rock, abbreviated AOR and originally called Album-oriented radio, was originally an American FM radio format focusing on album tracks by rock artists.

http://www.123exp-music.com/t/00334369386/ - http://www.123exp-music.com/t/00334369386/

Please answer a question: How can AOR be Adult Oriented Musicif the moist representative bands of AOR were STYX and BOSTON?: >>> says who???? I told you in my previous posts which were the most AOR-typed groups (Foreigner, Journey, SD, late Doobies,

That could be debated Sean, but the list of AOR bands is clearly detailled:

Album-oriented rock (sometimes referred to as adult-oriented rock), abbreviated AOR and originally called album-oriented radio, was originally an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States - American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_radio - FM radio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_format - format focusing on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album - album tracks by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll - rock artists. This format developed and popularized the repertoire of music currently associated with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_rock - classic rock .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowie - David Bowie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Styx - Styx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Buffett - Jimmy Buffett
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_%28band%29 - Boston
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Clapton - Eric Clapton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Cocker - Joe Cocker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosby%2C_Stills_%26_Nash_%28and_Young%29 - Crosby, Stills & Nash (and Young)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_Iris - Donnie Iris
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doobie_Brothers - The Doobie Brothers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagles - Eagles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Light_Orchestra - Electric Light Orchestra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleetwood_Mac - Fleetwood Mac
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fogerty - John Fogerty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreigner_%28band%29 - Foreigner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Frampton - Peter Frampton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Geils_Band - J. Geils Band

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guess_Who - The Guess Who
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_%28band%29 - Heart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Henley - Don Henley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hollies - The Hollies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Joel - Billy Joel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elton_John - Elton John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Lewis_and_the_News - Huey Lewis and the News
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Mason - Dave Mason
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moody_Blues - The Moody Blues
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Morrison - Van Morrison
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevie_Nicks - Stevie Nicks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Palmer_%28singer%29 - Robert Palmer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Parsons_Project - Alan Parsons Project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Oyster_Cult - Blue Oyster Cult
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procol_Harum - Procol Harum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Rundgren - Todd Rundgren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Seger - Bob Seger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Simon - Paul Simon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Springsteen - Bruce Springsteen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Squier - Billy Squier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringo_Starr - Ringo Starr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steely_Dan - Steely Dan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Stewart - Rod Stewart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toto_%28band%29 - Toto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uriah_Heep_%28band%29 - Uriah Heep
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Walsh - Joe Walsh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_%28band%29 - War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Winwood - Steve Winwood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Zevon - Warren Zevon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zombies - The Zombies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rock

ALBUM ORIENTED ROCK (RADIO)/AOR

Top Artists and Their Recordings

Aerosmith—Aerosmith (1973); Get Your Wings (1974); Toys in the Attic (1975); Rocks (1976)

Artful Dodger--Artful Dodger (1975; Honor Among Thieves (1976); Babes on Broadway (1977)

Asia--Asia (1982)

Bachman-Turner Overdrive--Bachman-Turner Overdrive (1973); Bachman-Turner Overdrive II (1974); Not Fragile (1974); Four Wheel Drive (1975); Head On (1976); Freeways (1977); Street Action (1978); Rock N' Roll Nights (1979)

Bad Company--Bad Company (1974); Straight Shooter (1975); Rub With the Pack (1976); Burning Sky (1977); Desolation Angels (1979)

Pat Benatar--In the Heat of the Night (1979); Crimes of Passion (1980); Precious Time (1981); Get Nervous (1982); Live From Earth (1983); Tropico (1984)

Boston--Boston (1976); Don't Look Back (1978); Third Stage (1986)

Bon Jovi--Bon Jovi (1984); 7800 Fahrenheit (1985); Slippery When Wet (1986); New Jersey (1988); Blaze of Glory (1990); Keep the Faith (1992)

Rocky Burnette--The Son of Rock and Roll (1980)

Rick Derringer--All American Boy (1973); Spring Fever (1975); Derringer (1976); Sweet Evil (1977); Derringer Live (1977)

The Doobie Brothers--Toulouse Street (1972); The Captain and Me (1973); What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits (1974); Stampede (1975); Livin' on the Fault Line (1977); Minute By Minute (1978); One Step Closer (1980)

Foreigner--Foreigner (1977); Double Vision (1978); Head Games (1979); 4 (1981); Agent Provocateur (1985); Inside Information (1987)

Heart--Dreamboat Annie (1976); Little Queen (1977); Magazine (1978); Dog and Butterfly (1978); Bebe Le Strange (1980); Private Audition (1982); Passionworks (1983); Heart (1985); Bad Animals (1987); Brigade (1990)

The Jefferson Starship--Dragon Fly (1974); Red Octopus (1975); Spitfire (1976); Earth (1978); Freedom at Point Zero (1979); Modern Times (1981); Winds of Change (1982); Nuclear Furniture (1984)

Joan Jett and the Blackhearts--Bad Reputation (1981); I Love Rock-n-Roll (1981); Album (1983); Glorious Results of a Misspent Youth (1984); Good Music (1986); Up Your Alley (1988); The Hit List (1990)

Journey--Journey (1975); Look Into the Future (1976); Next (1977); Infinity (1978); Evolution (1979); Departure (1980); Captured (1981); Escape (1981); Frontiers (1983); Raised On Radio (1986)

Greg Kihn Band--Next of Kihn (1976); With the Naked Eye (1979); Glass House Rock (1980); Rockihnroll (1981); Kihntinued (1982); Kihnspiracy (1983); Kihntagious (1984); Citizen Kihn (1985)

Meat Loaf--Bat Out of Hell (1977); Dead Ringer (1981); Bad Attitude (1985)

John Cougar Mellencamp--John Cougar (1979); Nothin; Matters and What If It Did (1980); American Fool (1982); Uh-Huh (1982); Scarecrow (1985); The Lonesome Jubilee (1987); Big Daddy (1989); Whenever We Wanted (1991)

Eddie Money--Eddie Money (1978); Life For the Taking (1979); Playing For Keeps (1980); No Control (1982); Where's the Party? (1983); Can't Hold Back (1986); Nothing to Lose (1988); Right Here (1992)

Orleans--Let There Be Music (1975); Waking and Dreaming (1976); Forever (1979)

The Outfield--Play Deep (1985); Bangin' (1987); Voices of Babylon (1989); Diamond Days (1990)

Pablo Cruise--Pablo Cruise (1975); Lifeline (1976); A Place in the Sun (1977); Worlds Away (1978); Part of the Game (1979); Reflector (1981)

Tom Petty (and the Heartbreakers)--Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers (1977); You're Gonna Get It! (1978); Damn the Torpedoes (1979); Hard Promises (1991); Long After Dark (1982); Southern Accents (1985); Pack Up the Plantation - Live! (1985); Let Me Up (I've Had Enough) 1987); Full Moon Fever (1889); Into the Great Wide Open (1991)

The Power Station--The Power Station (1985)

Quarterflash--Quarterflash (1981); Take Another Picture (1983); Back Into Blue (1985)

REO Speedwagon--Ridin' the Storm Out (1974); Lost in a Dream (1974); This Time We Mean It(1975); R.E.O. (1976); REO Speedwagon Live/You Get What You Pay For (1977); You Can Tune a Piano, But You Can't Tuna Fish (1978); Nine Lives (1979); Hi Infidelity (1980); Good Trouble (1982); Wheels Are Turnin' (1984); Life As We Know It (1987)

Bob Seger (and the Silver Bullet Band)--Smokin' O.P.'s (1972); Back in '72 (1973); Beautiful Loser (1975); "Live" Bullet (1976); Night Moves (1976); Stranger in Town (1978); Against the Wind (1980); Nine Tonight (1981); The Distance (1983); Like a Rock (1986); The Fire Inside (1991)

Sniff 'n' the Tears—Fickle Heart (1979); Love Action (1981)

Bruce Springsteen (and the E Street Band)--Greeting From Asbury Park, N.J. (1973); The Wild, The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle (1973); Born to Run (1975); Darkness on the Edge of Town (1978); The River (1980); Nebraska (1982); Born in the U.S.A. (1984); Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band Live/1975-85 (1986); Tunnel of Love (1987); Human Touch (1992); Lucky Town (1992)

Billy Squier--The Tale of the Tape (1980); Don't Say No (1981); Emotions in Motion (1982); Signs of Life (1984); Enough Is Enough (1986); Hear and Now (1989); Creatures of Habit (1991)

Styx--Styx I (1972); Styx II (1973); The Serpent Is Rising (1974); Man of Miracles (1974); Equinox (1975); Crystal Ball (1976); The Grand Illusion (1977); Pieces of Eight (1978); Cornerstone (1979); Paradise Theater (1981); Kilroy Was Here (1983); Caught in the Act - Live (1984); Edge of the Century (1990)

Survivor--Survivor (1980); Premonition (1981); Eye of the Tiger (1982); Caught in the Game (1983); Vital Signs (1984); When Seconds Count (1986); Too Hot to Sleep (1988)

Tommy Tutone--Tommy Tutone (1980); Tommy Tutone - 2 (1982); National Emotion (1983)

Toto--Toto (1978); Hydra (1979); Turn Back (1981); Toto IV (1982); Isolation (1984); Dune (1984); Fahrenheit (1986); The Seventh One (1988

http://www.shsu.edu/~lis_fwh/book/hybrid_children_of_rock/AOR2.htm - http://www.shsu.edu/~lis_fwh/book/hybrid_children_of_rock/AOR2.htm

All are mentioned Sean, but all clearly tipified as ALBUM Oriented Rock and all were massive among kids in their day.

STYX (The Grand Illusion) was N°6 in 1977 as album but also:had this top 10 hits:
1. Come Sail Away reached N° 8 in the Billboard
2. Fooling Yourself reached N° 29
3. In Canada, Miss America was also a hit (maybe not a single), but the whole album got airplay
STYX Pieces of Eight reached N° 6 in 1978, but also the hit singles
1. Renegade N° 16
2. Sing For a Day N° 40
3. Blue Collar Man & Queen of Spades were also hits and the whole album got airplay
STYX Cornerstone reached N°2 in 1979, but also the hit singles:
1. Babe reached N° 1
2. Boat on A River was also a hit (maybe not a single), but this time most of the rest of the album got ignored
STYX Paradise Theater reached N°1 in 1981, but aslo the hit singlñes:
1. The Best of Times: N° 3 POP SINGLES Billboard
2. Too Much Time on My Hands: N° 9 POP Billboarf Single
3. Rockin the Paradise N° 8 POP Billboard soingles
4. the radios ignored the rest of the albums
Boston self titled album was N° 3 of Billboard in 1976, but also the hit singles:
1. More than a Feeling: N° 5 in Billboard Pop singles
2. Piece of Mind: N° 38 in the Billboard Pop singles
3. The rest of the album got major airplay, most kids of then are familiar with the huge majority of the songs even if they didn't buy the album >>>Foreplay / Long Time, Rock & Roll Band, Smokin', let me take you home tonight
Boston Don't Look Back was N° 1 album of Billboard
1.Don't Look Back was Pop hit single N° 4 on Billboard
1. A Man I'll Never Be: Reached N° 31 on Pop hits in 1979
2. the radios mostly ignored the rest of the album

Sean...Don't you see my point? A format directed to one segment can't reach N° 1 in Billboard, much less when the adults that listen Rock are not the majority, we know that kids under 18 are the vast majority,. more on those days than today

Yes Seann we know that, but the ones who's votes really count, the ones who call the radios to give their votes, the ones who buy 80% of the albums, are the teens, not the adults who have many other priorities.

We are "Rara Avis" that care for music as much as we do with our age, but you must have heard this phrase a lot of times "Hey act your age and forget that stupíf music", at least I have heard it 100 times.

What your point miss is the regional disparities

Sean, this has no relation with the issue, the charts are made by BILLBOARD who only takes SALES in consideration, and remember, in the 70's almost 90% of the Rock audience was teens

Pure reviosionism >>> I also told to be careful quoting Wikipedia >>> they don't verify enough the contributor's source, unless someone bothers to make a correction.......

Sean, you don't trust Wikipedia, so I quoted you Billboard, Britt Awards and the Musical Video Producers Association...Do you belñieve now it's not revisionism or mistakes of Wikipedia?

Check the lists I provided above, the names are almost the same.

Sean, the truth is that the term AOR means ALBUM Oriebnted Radio Roick, the fact tghat some people missused the term for Adult, is only a generalized mistake, doesn't make it valid.

The term Rock is understood, but AC and MOR take it to ave a wider umbrella for different genres of Popular music.

So if you want to include them under the AC umbrella, be my gues!!!!! I couldn't care less, really

You care enough to debate

Iván

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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 20:17

Having grown up with, hung out among, and knowing more than a few long ago teenagers, I do not recall any one of them mentioning AOR as being Adult Oriented Rock. AOR was known to some extent. And as Ivan says, simply having Fleetwood Mac or Paul Simon songs on a radio station didn't mean that they couldn't be Album oriented. Both had a slew of hits. But both also had a number of pretty good album tracks that never really topped the charts as singles.

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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 30 2008 at 21:19

debrewguy wrote:

Having grown up with, hung out among, and knowing more than a few long ago teenagers, I do not recall any one of them mentioning AOR as being Adult Oriented Rock. AOR was known to some extent. And as Ivan says, simply having Fleetwood Mac or Paul Simon songs on a radio station didn't mean that they couldn't be Album oriented. Both had a slew of hits. But both also had a number of pretty good album tracks that never really topped the charts as singles.

As a fact, Rumors is one of the top 10 albums of all times if I'm not wrong, a great album without a single filler.

Iván

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Posted By: zicIy
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 02:08

Rumors is an album of so beautifuly composed songs, no question, but i don´t like that Lindsey Buckingham´s production of this album - i talk about that original LP sound - wasn´t so nice as these songs deserved as well, imho. great songs, but Buckingham, imho, had to given all of that to some independent producer and engeener to do it, e.g. Glyn Johns. but never mind, Rumors is still awesome Adult Oriented Rock (AOR ) an album .

-------------

imho, AOR, as the term, represented the style of the different albums recorded by different bands and solo artists, many of the albums issued in the period of mid 70s - mid 80s by musicians who started their careers in 60´s or early 70s. e.g. Pete Townshend´s masterpiece All The Best Cowboys Have The Chinesse Eyes - that album have nothing in common with other Townshend´s solo works, or with his work with The Who; and regarding the music and these lyrics, this is competly AOR an album. of course, there´s lot of crap in AOR, e.g. Genesis´ And Then There Were Three, imho.

AC could be just wider term of the same thing, so AC was including some jazz albums too, e.g. Grover Washigton ´s Just Two of Us, or Chuck Mangione´s Feel So Good. the same fm radio stations were playing those as they played Billy Joel´s music.

Album Oriented Rock was stopped to be valid as the term, imho, at the time when boom of Hi-Fi equipments sales get to drived adults to buy LPs (with brand new Hi-Fi system, who asking for the single???), and to listening LPs on their new stereo system. which music? ' hmmmm..... i just heard in my car that Biily Joel´s song and right now i go in a record store to buy his LPs!'

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 07:06

Ivàn,

I'm not trying to cop out, but I don't think this subject is important enough to have long debate, as you know tagging is a permanent issue in PA, but all over the web and since rock began living..... I just can't start editing the post you left me with all of those outise articles additions you made, it's confusing enough when you hand it over to me, I'll make a total messs of it.

Si I'll start a new one, which is likely my last..... unless you raise another issue that hasn't been addressed yet....

So you can cite me as many sources as you want and maybe you're right that Adult Oriented Radio/Rock is misusing the original AOR name, but the fact is that it happened and almost everyone did it, whether in the late 70's the 80's , the 90's and even in the 00's.... maybe completely and semantically off the bat..... but they used it. and are still using it

And schools are inventing anything they want >>> Joren's school (that the Utrecht University, not exactly a bunch of jokers) has even invented the term rock jazz genre, order to make some dubious distinction on jazz rock. To this day Joren is convinced that Miles Davis did rock-jazz instead of jazz-rock >>> go figure

Bullboard was in use widelyf or music professionals (it's a publication that doesn'tt really cater to fans) at least last time I leafed through one. There were hundreds of local top albums charts that influenced local buyers than the actual billboard,

So to me, I don't see much point to go further but this one:

It seems to me that this kind of subject is actually a verytense for those liking a an artiste that getrs often tagged as such, and whetherthe tag has a positive or negative tone tpo it. It's true that when people know my tastes, when I sau that HJKL is just neo -prog or XYZ is average AOR, some people will take it badly , but its not the genre that has a negative tone , but the words "just" and >"average" that give the negative conotation

So when I'm tagging Kansas as AOR (as in Adult), it's not negative at all (I think we all like some AOR >> Grand Illusion being one of my fave AOR album), but if i call Kansas just AOR or average AOR, then it can be seen as negative....

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 08:18

Sean Trane wrote:

but if i call Kansas just AOR or average AOR, then it can be seen as negative....

and people might wonder why prog fans are seen as having yardsticks up their asses... since when has AOR equated to bad music... or a negative.

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 13:35

um ;P classic rock ain't everyone's sacred cow

Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 14:01

laplace wrote:

um ;P classic rock ain't everyone's sacred cow

Music as a sacred cow ? Moo explanation please ?

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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.

Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 15:46

micky wrote:

Sean Trane wrote:

but if i call Kansas just AOR or average AOR, then it can be seen as negative....

since when has AOR equated to bad music... or a negative.

It's a huge negative to me. But what do I know? I like John Zorn. ;-)

debrewguy wrote:

laplace wrote:

um ;P classic rock ain't everyone's sacred cow

Music as a sacred cow ? Moo explanation please ?

I think what he is referring to is that people, here and elsewhere, generally regard "classic rock" as above criticism because they "defined" what rock and roll is--and the fact that their songs are still played ten times a day on the radio proves that they're good, right? It's always the old albums that top the music critics Best Ofs lists, and it's always old albums that most people will not cause people to look askance once you admit your love for them in public. The only notable exceptions I can think of are iconoclastic teenagers, who eventually grow out of being pointlessly rebellious, and naive teenagers, who have only heard Linkin Park, but will eventually like old music after the omnipresent radio/Guitar Hero pounds it into their skulls.

However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-)

As for the origins/meaning of AOR, I don't think it's honestly important enough to talk about. But who am I to judge? The whole internet is a giant waste of time anyway.

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if you own a sodastream i hate you

Posted By: The T
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 23:08

Henry Plainview wrote:

However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-)

No my prog-lover... you're neither special nor unique... you're just another side of the same coin, carved exactly in the same way as many others who also are the other side of the coin.

AOR and John Zorn, by the way, are in the end the same useless sh*t... music to hear, nothing more, nothing less....

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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: July 31 2008 at 23:29

The T wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-)

No my prog-lover... you're neither special nor unique... you're just another side of the same coin, carved exactly in the same way as many others who also are the other side of the coin.

AOR and John Zorn, by the way, are in the end the same useless sh*t... music to hear, nothing more, nothing less....

Do you not know what a wink means, or is your simply post wrapped in too many layers of sarcasm for me to penetrate?

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if you own a sodastream i hate you

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 00:23

Sean Trane wrote:

Ivàn,

Si I'll start a new one, which is likely my last..... unless you raise another issue that hasn't been addressed yet....

Don't know if inportant...But surely it's fun

I never said it wasn't used to define Adult Contemporary, as a fact I noticed since I joined this forum that some people used this term, my point is that it's wrong and misleading.

No Sean, you can't doubt about everything scghools and universities teach, especially when the term AOR has at least 28 years and it's of common use in broadcasting.

For that reason, being of use by proffesionals, I trust more in it than in local sites manipulated by DJ's and fanboys.

So to me, I don't see much point to go further but this one:

The problem is that some people doesn't know what AOR really means, Adult Contemporary (The correct name) isdirected towards a minor segment of population being often soft, bland and boring, that's why using the word Adult, instead of Album, gives a wrong impression.

Well, Kansas is not AOR, it has been lumped into Adult Contemporary by people who only heard a coiuple of songs.

Iván

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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 02:05

Henry Plainview wrote:

The T wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-)

No my prog-lover... you're neither special nor unique... you're just another side of the same coin, carved exactly in the same way as many others who also are the other side of the coin.

AOR and John Zorn, by the way, are in the end the same useless sh*t... music to hear, nothing more, nothing less....

Do you not know what a wink means, or is your simply post wrapped in too many layers of sarcasm for me to penetrate?

Yes... my post is special... and unique..... ;-) It takes a lot of deep digging to find the hidden truth.... ;-).....

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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 02:44

Henry Plainview wrote:

But what do I know? I like John Zorn. ;-)

quoted for wisdom LOL

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 09:14

Ivàn,

Si I'll start a new one, which is likely my last..... unless you raise another issue that hasn't been addressed yet....

Don't know if inportant...But surely it's fun . Well you know I enjoy a good debate, but these musical genres debates have been flogged to death and until we get multi-genre belonging for groups and artistes in PA (not likely soon, either), then having debates like these is not that useful....

I never said it wasn't used to define Adult Contemporary, as a fact I noticed since I joined this forum that some people used this term, my point is that it's wrong and misleading.. I recognise the lawyer and his use of semantics, but isn't this like fughting windmills?????? I mean it's a lost cause. Like the people from Brussels getting sick of hearing that Brussels decided this or that on the TV news, when they mean the European Commission...... Thousands of reminders have been sent to have journalist make the distinction between the EEC and the city....., but to no avail >> a lost cause. In 20 years time, the public will still call AOR adult Oriented Rock.

No Sean, you can't doubt about everything schools and universities teach, especially when the term AOR has at least 28 years and it's of common use in broadcasting. >> Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting systematically schools, but have you ever heard of rock-jazz , while maintoning that jazz-rock is a sifferent thing????

For that reason, being of use by proffesionals, I trust more in it than in local sites manipulated by DJ's and fanboys. >>> f course they are more trustworthy in the lawyer in you, but you're not reading Billboards to read up on a band's history right??? You're reading magazines that use AOR for Adult Oriented Rock (even if semantically wrong) like Mojo, Q, Classic Rock (they make AOR one of theirbattle horse)

So to me, I don't see much point to go further but this one:

The problem is that some people doesn't know what AOR really means >>> my point exactly..... this is the majoruty of people, the Mr Everybody........, Adult Contemporary (The correct name) is directed towards a minor segment of population being often soft, bland and boring, that's why using the word Adult, instead of Album, gives a wrong impression. >>> Agaion we're agreeing but under different terms. Ibut don't see a negative slant to"Adult" at all.......... Jacques Brel could enter the AC bracket and he's anything BUT boring.....

Well, Kansas is not AOR, it has been lumped into Adult Contemporary by people who only heard a coiuple of songs. As I said, nobody called Kansas AOP when Leftoverture was their latest album (unless using Album OR, which they would then qualify)....... but once Dust In TheWind happened, it's another ballgame.......

Iván

Hugues

Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 14:39

The T wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

The T wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

However, some people, like laplace and to a lesser extent myself, don't think that at all. Why? Because we're special and unique. ;-)

No my prog-lover... you're neither special nor unique... you're just another side of the same coin, carved exactly in the same way as many others who also are the other side of the coin.

AOR and John Zorn, by the way, are in the end the same useless sh*t... music to hear, nothing more, nothing less....

Do you not know what a wink means, or is your simply post wrapped in too many layers of sarcasm for me to penetrate?

Yes... my post is special... and unique..... ;-) It takes a lot of deep digging to find the hidden truth.... ;-).....

What? I have no idea what the hell you are trying to convey in either of those posts.

micky wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

But what do I know? I like John Zorn. ;-)

quoted for wisdom LOL

If someone has such absymal taste that he enjoys free jazz, it's only responsible that they warn everyone else beforehand. Otherwise someone could get hurt!

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if you own a sodastream i hate you

Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 01 2008 at 18:47

Sean Trane wrote:

Well you know I enjoy a good debate, but these musical genres debates have been flogged to death and until we get multi-genre belonging for groups and artistes in PA (not likely soon, either), then having debates like these is not that useful....

I agree, every debate is useful, if the least, we learn something always.

I recognise the lawyer and his use of semantics, but isn't this like fughting windmills?????? I mean it's a lost cause. Like the people from Brussels getting sick of hearing that Brussels decided this or that on the TV news, when they mean the European Commission...... Thousands of reminders have been sent to have journalist make the distinction between the EEC and the city....., but to no avail >> a lost cause. In 20 years time, the public will still call AOR adult Oriented Rock.

There I disagree, I haven't heard the term Adult Oriented Rock until I joined this forum in 200'4, before that I only heard Album Oriented Rock and as I told you, I worked oin an AOR radio.

>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting systematically schools, but have you ever heard of rock-jazz , while maintoning that jazz-rock is a sifferent thing????

That's absurd of course, but yu can't judge everyboody for a wrong situuation.

>>> f course they are more trustworthy in the lawyer in you, but you're not reading Billboards to read up on a band's history right??? You're reading magazines that use AOR for Adult Oriented Rock (even if semantically wrong) like Mojo, Q, Classic Rock (they make AOR one of theirbattle horse)

I don't read Mojo, but Classic Rock Magazine uis described as a magazine that started as Album Oriented Rock andevolved, you can Googfle it.

>>> my point exactly..... this is the majoruty of people, the Mr Everybody........,

Honestly, I heard Album Oriented Rock much more and long befote than Adult Oriented Rock, so Mr, Everybody believes it's Album, only a missinformed minority goes wih the other option

. >>> Agaion we're agreeing but under different terms. Ibut don't see a negative slant to"Adult" at all.......... Jacques Brel could enter the AC bracket and he's anything BUT boring.....

Not negative for you and me who are adults a long time ago , but negative for the vast majority of music buyers who will never buy somethoig oriented to adults.

. As I said, nobody called Kansas AOP when Leftoverture was their latest album (unless using Album OR, which they would then qualify)....... but once Dust In TheWind happened, it's another ballgame.......

That's what I say, people who heard only Dust in the Wind can call Kansas AOR, but that's a sign that this guys know nothng about music.

Iván

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