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mrcozdude View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: How Do You Compose?
    Posted: July 13 2008 at 10:33
At the moment I'm trying to find a good computer program to compose on which is also capable of producing good quality songs.I had a look at fruity loops which was reccomended but shortly found out you cant notate instruments making virtually useless. I was hoping i could have some recommendations and an idea of what you guys use?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2008 at 11:04
microsoft directmusic is free... =P
things like ProTools or Cubase VST (or whatever chapter they're on) are professional and proven tools

[s]I use Famitracker it imitates the sound of the NES lol[/s]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2008 at 11:37
Manuscript paper
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2008 at 13:38
I play around and if I happen to spontaneously play something I like I try to remember it. I have no serious composition method, I mostly improvise when playing. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2008 at 18:37
i think of melodies and sometimes structures when im bored at work and improvise some other ideas (usually the piano-related ideas)

As for recording, I use audacity.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2008 at 19:38

I carry a recorder, and when I come up with a melody or a couple of lines, I usually sing them in it. Some mp3 players have a recorder, and it's basically more important to me than a visual interface.

Well, i write my stuff on the computer with Sibelius. It's a pretty handy program, and actually a bit necessary. It's designed for writing notations, but comes with a variety of samples that basically let you write the whole orchestra yourself and listen to it later on. Nowadays it's pretty much on demand, that when sending your songs to the recording studios and the privacy organisations for rerecording by some other artist, think, financially produced pop music with different composers and singers, ... that you actually provide a full score on a Sibelius file with recording and the lyrics. Of course, you have to pay for it, but if you're serious, well...

I used to have GP5, which is a pretty handy thing for midis, but I grew kinda bored of it because the interface is based on tabulatures rather than notations, and so there were too many limitations. Of course it does notations too, but not as well as Sibelius. Also, the soudfonts are a bit hm hm. But for learnign purposes it's pretty great. But again, it's a midi based program, that I nowadays only use for making game music. This one costs too, I'm not aware of any good freeware programs.

Of course you could just do like most and use a pen and some paper.

Also, shouldn't this be in some other forum? It's not really a General poll that's not related to music, is it?



Edited by Passionist - July 13 2008 at 19:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2008 at 20:49
I use Reason to compose the backing, then transfer it to Magix Audio Studio to mix with live recordings. 
 
Audio Studio has a Cubase like midi section which you can use to enter notes on a score, or produce notation from midi-files - which is no where near as good as Sibelius, but it is 1/10th the price.
 


Edited by Dean - July 13 2008 at 20:50
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2008 at 02:44
^Magix products are fantastic value for money, I've had various versions of Audio Studio, Music Studio and Movie Edit and found them all easy to use and quick to get reasonable results. Magix Samplitude Music Studio is about as fully-featured as you can get for $75 http://www.magix.com/us/samplitude-music-studio/.
 
For notation, I use Sonar - basically because I "cut my teeth" on computer composition at college using a trial version of Cakewalk. The notation in Cakewalk was basic (and still is in Sonar, compared to Sibelius), and I couldn't save, so I had to do everything in one session - great for teaching yourself speed composition!
 
A friend of mine uses Finale, which looks really good, but I haven't tried it. Since college, I've only used manuscript paper and a pencil for "real" compositions, and a sequencer - currently I use Sony ACID Express, which is free to download http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/trials/acidxpress to improvise rock music ideas. I find it easier to use than Ableton Live, which comes bundled with Line 6 gear.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2008 at 22:55
i always forget how a song i wrote came to be. for me i let it happen naturally. if i try too hard to write a song, or try to have it sound a certain way, i fail. funny, enough, i average a song a song once a month. Have been writing for about 4-5 years, and only half of my compositions still stand up, and would use in my band. So just do it your own way, with no expectations. that's the best way, IMO, but everyone's different
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2008 at 18:53
I sit down with my guitar and compose...
Sometimes I think of the song before actually composing it. I usually have a riff or a melody first and think what I can do with it and I work from there.
"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2008 at 18:57
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

i always forget how a song i wrote came to be. for me i let it happen naturally. if i try too hard to write a song, or try to have it sound a certain way, i fail. funny, enough, i average a song a song once a month. Have been writing for about 4-5 years, and only half of my compositions still stand up, and would use in my band. So just do it your own way, with no expectations. that's the best way, IMO, but everyone's different

Uh I know that! I think just 10% of what I compose I like after a few weeks. The thing is I always like what Im doing right now more than what I have already done, I always think it´s better, so I leave most of what I did before behind cause I dont find it worth it
"You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2008 at 20:54
I have...my brain, paper, Pro Tools, and Finale. All of which I'm very happy with.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2008 at 01:04
I agree with a lot of what I read. I used to find that the most current thing I'd written was the best, but now I get annoyed with my songs the second I start writing them.
Personally, for me, I find the best thing to help with composing is take some kind of psychedelic, LSD or mushrooms and get to work. I ate some mushrooms last night and sat down with a bass in my hand and wound up writing a lot, 5 hours worth of junk (it wasn't all brilliant, but a hell of a lot more fruitful than on a boring "straight" night.) To write, I tapped the bass with my left hand and played the synthesizer with my right, and I recorded the occasion last night:

http://musicianavailable.homestead.com/notitle.mp3 


I'm sure the bigger the trip, the weirder and more inspired the music (i.e. Syd Barrett on the first Floyd album.) I feel I've found a new purpose to write, a new reason to be almost.


Edited by 2008rulez - July 23 2008 at 01:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2008 at 01:55
^^^ wow talk about being obvious about your lifestyle lol

but in a way it works (sometimes)

a little green is really all you need. personally, most of my writing is done sober.

look at Zappa, he never did drugs and listen to some (if not all) of the insane music he made.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2008 at 02:30
Sure, it really depends on who you are. Frank Zappa was probably just a WEIRD guy.   
https://soundcloud.com/johns-music-2
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 03:22
Originally posted by Passionist Passionist wrote:



I carry a recorder, and when I come up with a melody or a couple of lines, I usually sing them in it. Some mp3 players have a recorder, and it's basically more important to me than a visual interface.

Well, i write my stuff on the computer with Sibelius. It's a pretty handy program, and actually a bit necessary. It's designed for writing notations, but comes with a variety of samples that basically let you write the whole orchestra yourself and listen to it later on.



I've just finished my diploma in music practice ive had to use midi for two years i cant stand it now! lol We'll see if i end up going back to midi depending on my result lol

also I dont find myself songwriting if im under the influence lol im always preoccupied.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 04:06
Originally posted by 2008rulez 2008rulez wrote:

I agree with a lot of what I read. I used to find that the most current thing I'd written was the best, but now I get annoyed with my songs the second I start writing them.
Personally, for me, I find the best thing to help with composing is take some kind of psychedelic, LSD or mushrooms and get to work. I ate some mushrooms last night and sat down with a bass in my hand and wound up writing a lot, 5 hours worth of junk (it wasn't all brilliant, but a hell of a lot more fruitful than on a boring "straight" night.) To write, I tapped the bass with my left hand and played the synthesizer with my right, and I recorded the occasion last night:

http://musicianavailable.homestead.com/notitle.mp3 


I'm sure the bigger the trip, the weirder and more inspired the music (i.e. Syd Barrett on the first Floyd album.) I feel I've found a new purpose to write, a new reason to be almost.
 
Don't fall into the old drugs honey trap.
 
They can work a few times, it's true - but ultimately they feed off your creativity and drain it.
 
The old pattern is (and I've seen SOOOO many people, including myself, fall into it that it's not even funny);
 
1. You get a period of writer's block, like we all do.
2. You take something, and all of a sudden, the writer's block has gone - and in your state, the music sounds better than it ever has.
3. Instead of letting the substance be a tool to enhance the music, you let yourself be a tool to the substance, and you believe that by taking it, everything you write will be amazing, and by taking more, everything will be more amazing. It won't be.
4. Writer's block comes back (it always does), you take something and it doesn't work, so you take some more until you lose interest in writing and taking more and more substances becomes more important. At this point, you're not using substances - they're using YOU. The worst thing is, most people simply think it can't happen to them. It's like putting a frog into a pan of cold water and slowly bringing it to the boil - the frog does not notice the increase in temperature, but still dies.
5. Look at what happened to Syd Barrett. I've seen people completely flip out, and it's really not funny, and no, you can't handle it.
 
 
It's not true that being straight is boring - take that from someone who's been there - and I ain't about to brag about the quantities of LSD, mushrooms and other stuff I've taken, because quality has ALWAYS been more important than quantity.
 
Everything is here to enhance life, not replace it.
 
 
I'll check the track out later... Wink
 


Edited by Certif1ed - July 24 2008 at 04:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 05:54
Like I said, different strokes for different folks. You know how Gong was started right? Apparently a vision came to Dave Aellen on LSD and told him he needed to form Gong and spread its music across the world. He found his god or purpose, wrote it, and moved on. So what's the issue again? 
For me, the drugs don't make anything sound "better," its more about a gained inspiration and appreciation for what gifts we're given and what we have to work with- if this point is missed, it's not my fault or the drugs fault. I never sit down for 5 hours straight to work on different song ideas (unless I have a little psilocybin in me). I listened to that whole session recording (this song I posted is just 3 minutes of FIVE hours stuff recorded! I just let the mic run, and yes, it pays to have extra hard drives. Letting the mic just run is crucial to writing) and came to the conclusion that some was neat, some was crappy and pointless, and some had promise...same reactions I have drug free. So no, if you're not an idiot, I strongly believe the mushroom can be used positively and objectively. Syd took too much, AND it was LSD! Different drug. Listen to Eloy "Ocean"....those guys spoke in the psychedelic language, it should be so obvious!
https://soundcloud.com/johns-music-2
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 07:17
Originally posted by 2008rulez 2008rulez wrote:

I never sit down for 5 hours straight to work on different song ideas (unless I have a little psilocybin in me).
 
Yes, it's different strokes indeed - I've said what I've observed, that's all, and pointed out that the only means to an end that drugs provide is to alter your brain patterns chemically, either through promotion of production of selective chemicals or inhibition of that production.
 
Create a large amount of a chemical in a short space of time, and essentially comsume it, and the supply runs out. Start inhibiting production, and it's hard to get it back again for when you need to consume it.
 
The thing with getting high is that it observes the fundamental law that what goes up MUST come down.
 
Daevid Allen may have once had a vision whilst on LSD, but he later had other visions that told him that he didn't need LSD anymore.
 
 
Daevid Allen's own words;
 
"Let's talk about drugs. Nowadays you ill-advise the use of them as method to obtain the telepot contact effects, this is enlarge the mind...why?
Drugs are a quick tourist trip to a place you will reach anyway by hard life school. It's a repayable overdraft. Temporary but fascinating.
In the past, drugs played a fundamental role in the making of Gong's music. "You", for example, was a record made off druggy improvisations. Do we have to understand there's no place for experiments once you grow up?
If growing up means losing innocence, wonder, spontaneity, creative excitement, then I would call it dying down. Drugs are a tool. Know thy dose.
Much of the decisions that signaled decisive moments of your life - your musical quest, the creation of Gong, to leave Gong - seem to be made under pyscotropic enlightment...
Would they have happenened without acid? Would it have rained if the sky was bue? Possibly...
Between you and me...the former vision where you glimpsed Planet Gong in 1966, wasn't just a private joke soaked in lager, hash and acid?
No hash, no lager, no kidding. This was a defining spiritual awakening. It was timing, simultaneity, destiny. It was real for me. "
(you can't get a source more definitive than that!)
 
 
Peter Green wasn't so lucky - you want a list of all the acid casualties?
 
 
Given the chance, I will happily sit down for weeks on end to work on different song ideas with no stimulus except the regular food, drink and sleep stuff (oh, and all the life experiences that gave my subconscious inspiration before I sat down to record).
 
Music is it's own trip and needs nothing apart from a composer, a performer and an audience.
 
Sometimes the 3 can be the same person.
 
 
 
I won't respond to this again on the subject of drugs, as I've said it all here.
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 08:26
To get back to the original topic (composing):

http://www.sonomawireworks.com/products.php#riffworks

RiffWorks ... a great tool for guitarists. Check it out if you don't know it already, especially if you already use Line6 interfaces like GuitarPort or TonePort. It's really easy to lay down some riffs with this tool, even if you never used any DAW (digital audio workstation) software before ... and best of all: it's free!
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