How Do You Compose?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Music and Musicians Exchange
Forum Description: Talk with and get feedback from other musicians on the site
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50120
Printed Date: November 25 2024 at 14:11
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: How Do You Compose?
Posted By: mrcozdude
Subject: How Do You Compose?
Date Posted: July 13 2008 at 10:33
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At the moment I'm trying to find a good computer program to compose on which is also capable of producing good quality songs.I had a look at fruity loops which was reccomended but shortly found out you cant notate instruments making virtually useless. I was hoping i could have some recommendations and an idea of what you guys use? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: July 13 2008 at 11:04
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microsoft directmusic is free... =P
things like ProTools or Cubase VST (or whatever chapter they're on) are professional and proven tools [s]I use Famitracker it imitates the sound of the NES lol[/s] |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: July 13 2008 at 11:37
Manuscript paper 
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: July 13 2008 at 13:38
| I play around and if I happen to spontaneously play something I like I try to remember it. I have no serious composition method, I mostly improvise when playing. |
Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: July 13 2008 at 18:37
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i think of melodies and sometimes structures when im bored at work and improvise some other ideas (usually the piano-related ideas) As for recording, I use audacity. |
Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: July 13 2008 at 19:38
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I carry a recorder, and when I come up with a melody or a couple of lines, I usually sing them in it. Some mp3 players have a recorder, and it's basically more important to me than a visual interface. Well, i write my stuff on the computer with Sibelius. It's a pretty handy program, and actually a bit necessary. It's designed for writing notations, but comes with a variety of samples that basically let you write the whole orchestra yourself and listen to it later on. Nowadays it's pretty much on demand, that when sending your songs to the recording studios and the privacy organisations for rerecording by some other artist, think, financially produced pop music with different composers and singers, ... that you actually provide a full score on a Sibelius file with recording and the lyrics. Of course, you have to pay for it, but if you're serious, well... I used to have GP5, which is a pretty handy thing for midis, but I grew kinda bored of it because the interface is based on tabulatures rather than notations, and so there were too many limitations. Of course it does notations too, but not as well as Sibelius. Also, the soudfonts are a bit hm hm. But for learnign purposes it's pretty great. But again, it's a midi based program, that I nowadays only use for making game music. This one costs too, I'm not aware of any good freeware programs. Of course you could just do like most and use a pen and some paper. Also, shouldn't this be in some other forum? It's not really a General poll that's not related to music, is it? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 13 2008 at 20:49
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I use Reason to compose the backing, then transfer it to Magix Audio Studio to mix with live recordings.
Audio Studio has a Cubase like midi section which you can use to enter notes on a score, or produce notation from midi-files - which is no where near as good as Sibelius, but it is 1/10th the price.
------------- What? |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: July 14 2008 at 02:44
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^Magix products are fantastic value for money, I've had various versions of Audio Studio, Music Studio and Movie Edit and found them all easy to use and quick to get reasonable results. Magix Samplitude Music Studio is about as fully-featured as you can get for $75 http://www.magix.com/us/samplitude-music-studio/. - http://www.magix.com/us/samplitude-music-studio/.
For notation, I use Sonar - basically because I "cut my teeth" on computer composition at college using a trial version of Cakewalk. The notation in Cakewalk was basic (and still is in Sonar, compared to Sibelius), and I couldn't save, so I had to do everything in one session - great for teaching yourself speed composition!
A friend of mine uses Finale, which looks really good, but I haven't tried it. Since college, I've only used manuscript paper and a pencil for "real" compositions, and a sequencer - currently I use Sony ACID Express, which is free to download http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/trials/acidxpress - http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/trials/acidxpress to improvise rock music ideas. I find it easier to use than Ableton Live, which comes bundled with Line 6 gear. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: July 14 2008 at 22:55
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i always forget how a song i wrote came to be. for me i let it happen naturally. if i try too hard to write a song, or try to have it sound a certain way, i fail. funny, enough, i average a song a song once a month. Have been writing for about 4-5 years, and only half of my compositions still stand up, and would use in my band. So just do it your own way, with no expectations. that's the best way, IMO, but everyone's different
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: July 20 2008 at 18:53
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I sit down with my guitar and compose... Sometimes I think of the song before actually composing it. I usually have a riff or a melody first and think what I can do with it and I work from there. ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: July 20 2008 at 18:57
Uh I know that! I think just 10% of what I compose I like after a few weeks. The thing is I always like what Im doing right now more than what I have already done, I always think it´s better, so I leave most of what I did before behind cause I dont find it worth it ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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darkshade wrote:Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: July 20 2008 at 20:54
| I have...my brain, paper, Pro Tools, and Finale. All of which I'm very happy with. |
Posted By: 2008rulez
Date Posted: July 23 2008 at 01:04
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I agree with a lot of what I read. I used to find that the most current thing I'd written was the best, but now I get annoyed with my songs the second I start writing them. Personally, for me, I find the best thing to help with composing is take some kind of psychedelic, LSD or mushrooms and get to work. I ate some mushrooms last night and sat down with a bass in my hand and wound up writing a lot, 5 hours worth of junk (it wasn't all brilliant, but a hell of a lot more fruitful than on a boring "straight" night.) To write, I tapped the bass with my left hand and played the synthesizer with my right, and I recorded the occasion last night: http://musicianavailable.homestead.com/notitle.mp3 I'm sure the bigger the trip, the weirder and more inspired the music (i.e. Syd Barrett on the first Floyd album.) I feel I've found a new purpose to write, a new reason to be almost. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: July 23 2008 at 01:55
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^^^ wow talk about being obvious about your lifestyle lol but in a way it works (sometimes) a little green is really all you need. personally, most of my writing is done sober. look at Zappa, he never did drugs and listen to some (if not all) of the insane music he made. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: 2008rulez
Date Posted: July 23 2008 at 02:30
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Sure, it really depends on who you are. Frank Zappa was probably just a WEIRD guy.
------------- https://soundcloud.com/johns-music-2 |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: July 24 2008 at 03:22
I've just finished my diploma in music practice ive had to use midi for two years i cant stand it now! lol We'll see if i end up going back to midi depending on my result lol 
also I dont find myself songwriting if im under the influence lol im always preoccupied. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: July 24 2008 at 04:06
Don't fall into the old drugs honey trap.
They can work a few times, it's true - but ultimately they feed off your creativity and drain it.
The old pattern is (and I've seen SOOOO many people, including myself, fall into it that it's not even funny);
1. You get a period of writer's block, like we all do.
2. You take something, and all of a sudden, the writer's block has gone - and in your state, the music sounds better than it ever has.
3. Instead of letting the substance be a tool to enhance the music, you let yourself be a tool to the substance, and you believe that by taking it, everything you write will be amazing, and by taking more, everything will be more amazing. It won't be.
4. Writer's block comes back (it always does), you take something and it doesn't work, so you take some more until you lose interest in writing and taking more and more substances becomes more important. At this point, you're not using substances - they're using YOU. The worst thing is, most people simply think it can't happen to them. It's like putting a frog into a pan of cold water and slowly bringing it to the boil - the frog does not notice the increase in temperature, but still dies.
5. Look at what happened to Syd Barrett. I've seen people completely flip out, and it's really not funny, and no, you can't handle it.
It's not true that being straight is boring - take that from someone who's been there - and I ain't about to brag about the quantities of LSD, mushrooms and other stuff I've taken, because quality has ALWAYS been more important than quantity.
Everything is here to enhance life, not replace it.
I'll check the track out later...
 ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: 2008rulez
Date Posted: July 24 2008 at 05:54
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Like I said, different strokes for different folks. You know how Gong was started right? Apparently a vision came to Dave Aellen on LSD and told him he needed to form Gong and spread its music across the world. He found his god or purpose, wrote it, and moved on. So what's the issue again? For me, the drugs don't make anything sound "better," its more about a gained inspiration and appreciation for what gifts we're given and what we have to work with- if this point is missed, it's not my fault or the drugs fault. I never sit down for 5 hours straight to work on different song ideas (unless I have a little psilocybin in me). I listened to that whole session recording (this song I posted is just 3 minutes of FIVE hours stuff recorded! I just let the mic run, and yes, it pays to have extra hard drives. Letting the mic just run is crucial to writing) and came to the conclusion that some was neat, some was crappy and pointless, and some had promise...same reactions I have drug free. So no, if you're not an idiot, I strongly believe the mushroom can be used positively and objectively. Syd took too much, AND it was LSD! Different drug. Listen to Eloy "Ocean"....those guys spoke in the psychedelic language, it should be so obvious! ------------- https://soundcloud.com/johns-music-2 |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: July 24 2008 at 07:17
Yes, it's different strokes indeed - I've said what I've observed, that's all, and pointed out that the only means to an end that drugs provide is to alter your brain patterns chemically, either through promotion of production of selective chemicals or inhibition of that production.
Create a large amount of a chemical in a short space of time, and essentially comsume it, and the supply runs out. Start inhibiting production, and it's hard to get it back again for when you need to consume it.
The thing with getting high is that it observes the fundamental law that what goes up MUST come down.
Daevid Allen may have once had a vision whilst on LSD, but he later had other visions that told him that he didn't need LSD anymore.
Daevid Allen's own words;
"Let's talk about drugs. Nowadays you ill-advise the use of them as method to obtain the telepot contact effects, this is enlarge the mind...why?
Drugs are a quick tourist trip to a place you will reach anyway by hard life school. It's a repayable overdraft. Temporary but fascinating.In the past, drugs played a fundamental role in the making of Gong's music. "You", for example, was a record made off druggy improvisations. Do we have to understand there's no place for experiments once you grow up? If growing up means losing innocence, wonder, spontaneity, creative excitement, then I would call it dying down. Drugs are a tool. Know thy dose.Much of the decisions that signaled decisive moments of your life - your musical quest, the creation of Gong, to leave Gong - seem to be made under pyscotropic enlightment... Would they have happenened without acid? Would it have rained if the sky was bue? Possibly...Between you and me...the former vision where you glimpsed Planet Gong in 1966, wasn't just a private joke soaked in lager, hash and acid? No hash, no lager, no kidding. This was a defining spiritual awakening. It was timing, simultaneity, destiny. It was real for me. " http://www.planetgong.co.uk/octave/interviews/da_ruta66.shtml - http://www.planetgong.co.uk/octave/interviews/da_ruta66.shtml
(you can't get a source more definitive than that!)
Peter Green wasn't so lucky - you want a list of all the acid casualties?
Given the chance, I will happily sit down for weeks on end to work on different song ideas with no stimulus except the regular food, drink and sleep stuff (oh, and all the life experiences that gave my subconscious inspiration before I sat down to record).
Music is it's own trip and needs nothing apart from a composer, a performer and an audience.
Sometimes the 3 can be the same person.
I won't respond to this again on the subject of drugs, as I've said it all here. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 24 2008 at 08:26
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To get back to the original topic (composing): http://www.sonomawireworks.com/products.php#riffworks - http://www.sonomawireworks.com/products.php#riffworks RiffWorks ... a great tool for guitarists. Check it out if you don't know it already, especially if you already use Line6 interfaces like GuitarPort or TonePort. It's really easy to lay down some riffs with this tool, even if you never used any DAW (digital audio workstation) software before ... and best of all: it's free! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: July 24 2008 at 13:13
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I've been using the Making Waves sequencer since late 1999. It's a low-to-mid priced one, so it lacks the features of Sonar and others, and thus it doesn't get a lot of press. I stuck with it because I like it and I don't feel like paying the price of a higher end sequencer with features I may never use, although I did eventually cough up money for the Miriam Vocaloid and VAZ Modular. I still think about getting a Garritan product, but with the economy the way it is, I'm going to refrain. I've made five albums using Making Waves and who knows how much filler for a future box set. Unfortunately, it doesn't meet your requirement of a notation feature (I'm assuming you mean a viewable score, like sheet music). |
Posted By: 2008rulez
Date Posted: July 24 2008 at 14:09
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mike enregalia, I read every post, and they all pertain to how we compose. Every post was on topic. Composing is different for everyone...so I would expect a bunch of different answers about it. I'm sure mozart would have quite the unusual answer. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/johns-music-2 |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 03:59
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i am crap at thinking up tunes or ideas, i often think of some good ones when i'm doing something else, or somewhere else, but have forgotten them when i get home -
must get that mini recorder notebook to carry around!
 -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: July 28 2008 at 17:07
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That was part of the reasoning behind my NWoBHM "challenge" - the challenge was more to produce something rather than anything specific, and I ended up writing 25 pieces, the first 18 of which were mostly rubbish.
However, the more you try to capture your ideas, the more you have at the right time (ie, when you're trying to capture them!), and I used 5 out of the last 6 for my demos. Interestingly enough, the one that seems to have got the best feedback is the last one I wrote.
This isn't a plug for my music, rather it's a plug for practice.
As a music professor I had once said; "If you are a composer, compose".
Trite, but very, very true.
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 03:40
One quick way of remembering melodies is to use your cell phone (or a friend's cell phone) to leave a message with the music you want to remember on your answering machine. -------------   |
Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: July 29 2008 at 06:51
| Or get an mp3 player with a mic, most of them have one. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 06 2008 at 00:32
Hey man, I´m like the biggest computer idiot. What do I need to plug my guitar to my computer in order to use this kind of programs?  ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 06 2008 at 00:35
You are a music professor?  I did ot know that......how can you bash Opeth then? Akerfeld is the best composer metal has ever seen!!! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: August 06 2008 at 01:37
You plug it into the Toneport  ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: August 06 2008 at 01:38
"As a music professor I had once said" He didn't say he was a music professor  -------------
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: August 06 2008 at 01:49
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noodling then combining the cooler parts of the noodling together spose I'm not really a composer then am I ------------- 
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Posted By: Jaydubz
Date Posted: August 23 2008 at 22:55
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My toolbox -
For symphonic stuff: Notion 2
For pure electronica: Reason 4
For remixing: Live 7
For general purpose recording: Sonar 7 PE ------------- "Music is the best." ~ FZ |
Posted By: Jazzsta
Date Posted: September 14 2008 at 11:34
Right! Me as well. Reason for the drums-I try to make them sound real... and Magix Audio Studio for mixing the recording... ------------- PLATO RULES! |
Posted By: Q6
Date Posted: November 17 2008 at 06:40
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I compose using Reason / Cubase. I catch quick ideas on my phone. ------------- http://www.paulcusick.co.uk - www.paulcusick.co.uk |
Posted By: MonkeyphoneAlex
Date Posted: November 18 2008 at 11:17
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I use a compination of a wire-bound music notebook and Reason. ------------- "Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST." -FZ |
Posted By: TDW
Date Posted: November 23 2008 at 05:14
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I use Reason 4.0 for sketching out demo ideas when I am on my laptop. I think that when you are searching for a self-contained and easy to use program for music making, Reason is the best thing out there and I have a couple of songwriting students which are very happy that I introduced them to it. (I used to work with good old fasttracker before I started with Reason so imagine my surprise when reason turned out to me more logical and more versatile with less work involved ) I use Cubase Studio 4.0 when I am having the time to actually work out a song arrangement and record parts for it. I also use this software to create full arrangements with orchestral parts and such and I use this suite to mix and finish my songs. (I do the mastering in Wavelab however, but that is just to be sure that the music translates well to MP3 format these days) And last but not least, for a little while now I use my cellphone which has a neat little recorder which enables me to whistle/sing my idea's into it so I don't have to loose my inspiration when I am for example somewhere in the middle of nowhere with no CPU around  ------------- http://www.tdwmusic.com"> 
...Scoring emotions by the day... |
Posted By: DatM
Date Posted: November 23 2008 at 08:51
I'm a bit confuded by what you're looking for. Are you looking for a program to record your ideas, or work them out? Or both? And do you work exclusively through notation? Becausea program like Fruity Loops may not have standard notation, but you can sequence with it using lines and graphs...or a midi keyboard to input the notes. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: January 17 2009 at 13:24
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can't compose, would love to but I haven't even the basic knowledge of notation.
would like to put music to the lyrics and sounds I have buzzing around my head but I'd need some sort of program that allows you to hear what a note sounds like. I can gather nothing from simply looking a note on a sheet of music. -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 17 2009 at 13:36
Ah - now I understand. Yes there is such software -- for example http://www.wildcat.com/Web/Wildcat/Html/Site/Homepage.htm - AutoScore - I've never used it myself but I would imagine you would need some musical knowledge to use it properly.
I would recomend either finding a musician friend to transcribe your singing into music or just get hold of some simple music software (like Magix Music Maker, GarageBand or Fruity Loops) and experiment. Most of these use pianola (piano roll) type of note display (called a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracker - Tracker ) that does not require understanding of a traditional music score. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: January 17 2009 at 13:40
You need at least some basic knowledge of music theory. Then I'd suggest you get a cheap MIDI keyboard and computer DAW (digital audio workstation) software. Many of them have the ability to export the recorded music (via MIDI) as notation. |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: January 17 2009 at 14:41
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Finale, Logic Studio, Pencil & Paper (in extreme cases ), Final Cut Studio for video.
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Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: January 19 2009 at 08:28
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a simple easy-to-use program like Acid pro 4 is good as it allows live sources - mikes, guitars, electronic drums, keyboards and loops, samples, whatever.
most musicians think up good tunes while noodling around on a guitar or piano, for writers block it is handy to carry around when out a small digital recorder as a notebook in case you think up any useful tunes and phrases - by the time you get home they are usually forgotten!  ------------- Prog Archives Tour Van
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: January 20 2009 at 17:33
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I myself end up humming the basic tune into whatever happens to be near me at the time, whether it is my camera, or a phone, or whatever. Then, when I get home, I write it down in the Guitar Pro program. It then evolves from there as I add layers and whatnot.
I like using guitar pro for the writing, because it allowes me to export the final version of my song into many different file formats. This means I can write a whole song in Guitar Pro, assign specific sextions to specific instruments, then export it all as a pdf file and print it off as sheet music that I can then take with me anywhere; the studio, a show, etc. Very conveniant.
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