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DJPuffyLemon 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 18 2008
Location: L
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Points: 520
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 Topic: Most Pretentious Band?
Posted: June 17 2008 at 19:58 |
To refresh everyone's memory, here's the definition of pretentious:
a: making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing)
b: expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature
Basically, you claim your music is more than it is. Now, I'm missing a bunch, like maybe some noise rock or canterbury bands, but here are the big ones that spring to mind:
YES
Why are they here?
Tales of Topographic Oceans, an album of epic proportions. Plus, the non-sensical lyrics by that man with the angel's choir of voices, Jon Anderson.
MAGMA
Why are they here?
The creation of a language, which in the first few albums was basically gibberish. And basically mapping out the mythology of an entire culture in said language.
THE MARS VOLTA
Why are they here?
Non-sensical lyrics, arguably more obtuse than that of Jon Anderson. Plus, song titles with made up compound words.
ELP
Why are they here?
Honestly, only because some would complain if it wasn't. But here's the thing, ELP is more of a self-indulgent band than anything else. And there's a difference between pretentious and self-indulgent.
Self-indulgent: Lets take a classical piece and adapt it to be played by a rock band.
Pretentious: Lets take a classical piece and adapt it to be played by a rock band, and then say its objectively better than the original.
But you know, whatever.
So there you have it, vote away! And of course, if you think there's a band that is more pretentious than any of these, please convince your fellow music fans of the fact.
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: June 17 2008 at 20:32 |
Take a good look at this picture:  This is Christian Vander marking the sign of death on anyone who doesn't pick Magma  And by the way folks, last I checked pretentious in prog was a good thing 
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JayDee
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: September 07 2005
Location: Elysian Fields
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Points: 10063
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Posted: June 17 2008 at 20:36 |
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Diablo Swing Orchestra:
The Diablo Swing Orchestra dates back to 1501 in Sweden, where
history tells the tale of an orchestra that played like no other, with
music so seductive and divine that the ensemble overwhelmed audiences
all over the country, and people from all social classes took them to
their hearts. Their performances rapidly earned a reputation of being
feral and vigorous and gained the Orchestra a devoted crowd that
followed them around.
During the later half of the 16th century the criticism against the
Church’s dictatorial ruling had intensified. Gifts and tenancies had
made the Church extremely wealthy, and since the money merely was used
to strengthen their power the discontent among the people was growing.
To many people the Orchestra presented them to a new view upon things
and a way to cope with everyday life.
The Church witnessed how their influence over the people decreased and
began to depict the Orchestra as treacherous, saying their intentions
were anything but righteous.
The Orchestra’s extensive use of the prohibited tritonus
interval in their music, as well as their excessive lifestyles, were
facts that were not looked mildly upon. Great men slandered the music,
saying it was an insult to everything Christ stood for. However, when
this attempt to reduce the Orchestra’s popularity failed, the Church
began to use more desperate measures in order to regain its former
power. “The Devil’s Orchestra” became the slogan they used, and the
members were accused of being everything from devil worshippers to the
spawn of Satan. This catchphrase eventually caught on and became the
popular name of the Orchestra. When even these efforts shown futile the
church ultimately framed the Orchestra members for a murder and a
ruthless manhunt began.
The following two years the Orchestra led the lives of outlaws and were
forced to perform in barns and outhouses, where only a strictly limited
number of people were allowed to attend. Luckily generous people
provided them with food and somewhere to sleep.
In order to capture the Orchestra the church issued a reward to the
person that could provide such information that lead to the capture of
them. The sum was so large that the orchestra, tired and weary of
living as fugitives, realised that it all had come to and end. They
knew that sooner or later someone would reveal their whereabouts and
the decided to go down in style.
But before doing so, they all signed a pact saying that their
descendants were given the task of reuniting the Orchestra in 500 years
and continue their work of spreading thought-provoking music. Six
envelopes were therefore sealed and given to trustees of the Orchestra
to pass on to family members.
They announced their final concert publicly as a grandeur finale.
Thousands of people showed up and even though it was almost no one who
could actually hear the music, the massive sing-along of the crowd
granted the performance to be the most talked about in history. Thanks
to the huge amount of people the Orchestra was allowed to play until
their last song when armed guards finally managed to storm the stage
and arrest the musicians. They were sent prison and later sentenced to
death by hanging.
Stockholm 2003: By mere accident two of the original orchestra
descendants meet in a music shop and begin to discuss music. It later
shows that they both have received a strange letter from some ancient
relative containing instructions on how to reunite The Devil’s
Orchestra. They both become very excited and through some genealogy
they managed to find all of the remaining successors in a period of
three months.
Unfortunately all of the original scores were confiscated and burned by
the church back in 1503. So music-wise the new orchestra were left with
no directions on what to play.
After some meticulous discussions it was agreed upon that the music
should be like a modern version of the old orchestra. Annlouice was
chosen to front the band, her angelic yet powerful operatic voice was
perfect to bring a bombastic feeling to the music. Pontus’
dance-influences and programming skills came in handy since the
orchestra wanted the arrangements to sound a bit more futuristic. He
shares guitar duties with Daniel, who also is the main composer in the
band. Anders brought some groove to the mix adding powerful slapping
and funk-oriented bass licks, while Andreas’s energetic drumming made
sure the songs are driven and pulsating. Together with Anders, he lays
the solid swinging foundation of the band. Johannes’s theoretical
knowledge and stunning technique combined with an emotive cello-playing
style made him essential to the band’s sound.
Together they answer to the name of Diablo Swing Orchestra and are determined to honour the legacy of their ancestors.
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Yorkie X
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1049
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Posted: June 17 2008 at 21:31 |
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I love ELP so I didn't vote for them despite the fact they probably deserve to be here ,its actually their pretentious side I think I like the most about them they are masters at it. I voted for Magma they are the side of pretentious that I can live without to me they don't make any sense, know they have their fan base here on this site I only wish I could relate to their views ... I can't see what they see.
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WinterLight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 424
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Posted: June 17 2008 at 22:13 |
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According to the given definitions, none of the bands listed meet the criteria for pretentiousness (at least for the reasons cited).
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DJPuffyLemon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 18 2008
Location: L
Status: Offline
Points: 520
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Posted: June 17 2008 at 23:19 |
 WinterLight wrote:
According to the given definitions, none of the bands listed meet the criteria for pretentiousness (at least for the reasons cited). |
According to the given definitions, this list is pretty much perfect. If you look at it, Yes, Magma, and TMV really don't have much to say in terms of lyrical content, but all the excess that comes with the band...well. But please, tell me why this list isn't good?
And btw guys, did you even read my post? ELP are not pretentious. They don't have a claim to be more than they are. TELL ME WHY YOU THINK SO THOUGH!
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7991
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Posted: June 17 2008 at 23:24 |
DJPuffyLemon wrote:
Magma... really don't have much to say in terms of lyrical content |
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Relayer09
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2007
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 314
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Posted: June 17 2008 at 23:54 |
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I'll have to say Magma. They're a bit more over the top than the other bands but that is also part of what makes Magma cool.
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If you lose your temper, you've lost the arguement. -Proverb
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: June 17 2008 at 23:56 |
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I can't vote here. ELP didn't become pretentious until the Works era. So to label them pretentious would imply that the good stuff was also pretentious, which it was not.
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iguana
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 825
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 03:59 |
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every working band that performs music publically and stands on stages is pretentious to an extent.
out of the choices i'd say ELP for their “jocks of prog“ mannerisms.
U2/OASIS – two of the most pretentious bands ever.
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progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false?
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 04:36 |
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Having read a few interviews from members of these bands, Magma wins this thing by a landslide.
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Cheesecakemouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 1751
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 05:09 |
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What about Pretentious in non prog?: The Clash- Sadinista, Bob Dylan Blonde on Blonde, everything done by Prince, Oasis etc
No one ever talks about pretentiousness in other styles of music. But all this lot had carrots up their a#$@'s
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 05:27 |
Other..
The Enid strike me as being pretty pretentious. I still think they're brilliant though..  Prog without a certain degree of pretence wouldn't be half as effective, interesting or entertaining as it has been for 40 odd years. Peter Gabriel, without the costumes? Keith Emerson without his Hammond organ wrestling routines? Rick Wakemen without his capes, or knights and hobby horses on ice? Ian Anderson without his codpeice..? Nah, doesn't work does it.
The worst kind of pretentiousness lies outside the world of prog, and among these guitar pop punk bands who 'pretend' to be good, when in fact they're total arse. 
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song_of_copper
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Joined: March 20 2008
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1065
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 07:16 |
I can't vote here - not heard enough - but 'pretension'... I find that very interesting. For a long time I studiously avoided anything that might be considered 'pretentious' but in fact, I find I rather like it - with certain caveats!! Firstly, I have this dumb theory of a kind of 'silly:serious' ratio... I guess that's what you'd call it... Basically, if someone can take an utterly ludicrous idea and pursue it with total dedication and sincerity, with a completely straight face, well... I really love that. On the other hand, if someone has a completely serious idea and goes about it in a less-than-sincere, rather self-deprecating/self-parodying way, that tends to really turn me off. Same if it was a case of 'silly idea, silly execution' or 'serious idea, serious execution'... I guess this is my totally pretentious way of saying 'there is more than one way to be pretentious'! 
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WinterLight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 424
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 09:22 |
DJPuffyLemon wrote:
WinterLight wrote:
According to the given definitions, none of the bands listed meet the criteria for pretentiousness (at least for the reasons cited).
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According to the given definitions, this list is pretty much perfect. If you look at it, Yes, Magma, and TMV really don't have much to say in terms of lyrical content, but all the excess that comes with the band...well. But please, tell me why this list isn't good?
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You've failed to describe just how each artist has made "unjustified or excessive claims" or is "expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature." I think that this is clear to anyone not blinded by their own prejudices against these bands. The onus probandi lies with you (and using Latin is not pretentious either).
Edited by WinterLight - June 18 2008 at 09:23
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ten years after
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Australia
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Points: 1008
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 09:24 |
Any band that sets out to make complex music just because they think it will impress people rather than because they themselves think it is good would qualify as pretentious.
Some famous bands may qualify in this category but certainly not those listed. They simply produced good music.
I do have some nagging suspicions about Gentle Giant in this regard.
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Prejjer
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 19 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 50
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 09:56 |
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Gentle Giant made much more interesting music than ELP, either way.
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darksideof
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 22 2007
Location: Newark N.J.
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Points: 2318
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 10:48 |
Carl Palmer said it!!! 
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http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/
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darksideof
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 22 2007
Location: Newark N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 2318
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 11:17 |
DJPuffyLemon wrote:
WinterLight wrote:
According to the given definitions, none of the bands listed meet the criteria for pretentiousness (at least for the reasons cited). |
According to the given definitions, this list is pretty much perfect. If you look at it, Yes, Magma, and TMV really don't have much to say in terms of lyrical content, but all the excess that comes with the band...well. But please, tell me why this list isn't good?
And btw guys, did you even read my post? ELP are not pretentious. They don't have a claim to be more than they are. TELL ME WHY YOU THINK SO THOUGH! |
 Hey Kid take it easy !!! it isn't the end of the world;! IT IS JUST ART.... you have been misunderstood. When I listen to Yes' work specially Tales to me it is just pure Abstract music specially lyrically. Its interpretation is a personal thing and a unique one because everyone every is objective about it. you either like or hate it. and make a conclusion to be a masterpiece or a pretentious, self indulgent crap!
also if you dind know. it wasn't only Jon that wrote Yes Lyrics but Steve Howe as well.
The Mars Volta is a band of many influences coming from many different directions from" Latin Heritage"( Mexico Puerto Rico) to pure avant garde. so their music is going to be different and wild. do you prefer them to write love Pop tunes instead? These guys are ARTIST and ARTIST are always in the search of the unkown which they have found it.
do you think when Picasso, Geoge Braque, Max Ernst, Salvador Dali to name a few. were consern if their work made sense to the naked eyes as your? of course not !! their concern were creating something new, original, unique, and be part of the innovation and revolution of the 30 and 40 Art scene.
so kid like I said before don't miss interpret Pretentious with ART. also don't listen to Critics.
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http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/
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DJPuffyLemon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 18 2008
Location: L
Status: Offline
Points: 520
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Posted: June 18 2008 at 11:27 |
WinterLight wrote:
DJPuffyLemon wrote:
WinterLight wrote:
According to the given definitions, none of the bands listed meet the criteria for pretentiousness (at least for the reasons cited).
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According to the given definitions, this list is pretty much perfect. If you look at it, Yes, Magma, and TMV really don't have much to say in terms of lyrical content, but all the excess that comes with the band...well. But please, tell me why this list isn't good?
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You've failed to describe just how each artist has made "unjustified or excessive claims" or is "expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature." I think that this is clear to anyone not blinded by their own prejudices against these bands. The onus probandi lies with you (and using Latin is not pretentious either).
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The claims are more or less implied. A lot of TMV fans (check out thecomatorium website) say that Cedric is the greatest poet ever. There's rampant Magma fanboyism: anyone goes and says Magma isn't the greatest band ever is always answered with "HORTZ FUR DEN STEKEHN WEST".
And don't get this holier than thou attitude about this subject. The bands listed would all be in my top 20 favorite bands ever. I love their music, but I can still see that they are pretentious to a degree, just wanted to see if anyone agreed with me, apparently some do. And apparently some others think I'm pissing on the bands when I say they are.
(God, i really should not have included ELP in this poll but whatever, can't exclude them because I'm prejudiced against the fact now can I?)
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Most Pretentious Band?
