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Prospero 
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 06 2008
Location: Quebec
Status: Offline
Points: 91
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 Posted: June 10 2008 at 02:03 |
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Ian Underwood, where is he?
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: June 10 2008 at 18:26 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Punk claims and names the MOD lifestyle as their natural ancestor, as a fact the MOD is a movement born in the low working class of Great Britain and it's an aphorism for "Clean living under diffucult circumstances", they cared for fashion, and as a fact they had their own fashion oposed to Psychelia fashion.
The MODS were essentially a violent culture, full of rage and hatred among the upper classes, they were organized among violent gangs that despised the Beat generation, hated The Beatles and the Hippies.
Mod minimalism is the musical movement in which the three chord rock was born, their preference was towards Ska and Power Rock, this was retaken by the Punks in a more aggressive way, they left the fashion (well, created their own fashion also) and the motorcycle (vespa) for a simple aggressive behaviour and a strng anarchis,m.
As a fact all the Punk sites claim Mod generation as their direct predecessor:
You can check an interesting article:
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Punk has it’s roots in three musical strands, from three different countries:
1) Jamaica with the development of Ska and Reggae, featuring most notably the “rude boy” scene,
2) The United States with rockabilly and honky tonk,
3) England with the music scene starting in the 60’s with the “mod scene” with their scooters and bowl-like haircuts, with bands like The Who.
Punk also has it’s roots in the political/social climate of the 60’s and 70’s in England, the US and Europe.
Youth disenfranchisement with the failure of 60’s hippie Utopia culture and the commercialization of Rock and Roll led to a new form of music characterized by loud chaotic distorted chords played with less technique, more heart, more angst, and more disdain for authority and the establishment. The lyrics tended toward Anarchistic and nihilistic views of power and authority.
Punk grew out of most notably, the working class and poor of England. The attire, combat boots, suspenders, jeans and shaved heads, as with the various skinhead groups, represented the working poor. The leather jackets, piercings, and the mohawk hair of punks also represented a reaction to conventional appearance and a desire for individuality.
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The seminal Proto Punk band is THE KINKS, they are venerate by the Punks and of course we all know that THE KINKS emerged from the MOD - Garage Rock scene of the 60's
So it's correct to say that The Punks didn't had the SAME fashion obsession of the MODS but the Punks rescued the values of the MODS and their dislike for a society they believed rejected them.
Every Punk and MOD source links them, that's easy to verify, so there are hundreds of books I would have to throw away  .
Iván
EDIT:Some more quotes Dick:
By the mid sixties the working class rebels that had created the mod movement had become disaproving of it's now commercial success and quickly tired of it.The fashion was no longer thiers and they'd lost all links with what it had become and simply lost interest.
Even though the musical style continued to grow, with it even metamorphising later through the punk movement with groups like Paul Wellars The Jam and more recently via the Brit-pop
scene and bands like Ocean Colour Scene, the culture of the sixties mod on a fashion andstatement level grinded to a slow and suprisingly lulled halt.
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| Then on Friday it's punk night and Sunday it will be mod so it should be a good affair with a good choice. Some festivals that you go to are a bit samey but this will be a bit different. All the music - punk, ska and mod - are all connected in some way. In the early 80s they were seen as separate but now you can see that the roots of one come into another.
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Garage rock and mod
- In the early and mid-1960s, garage rock bands that came to be recognized as punk rock's progenitors began springing up in many different locations around North America. The Kingsmen, a garage band from Portland, Oregon, had a breakout hit with their 1963 cover of "Louie, Louie," cited as "punk rock's defining ur-text." The minimalist sound of many garage rock bands was influenced by the harder-edged wing of the British Invasion. The Kinks' hit singles of 1964, "You Really Got Me" and "All Day and All of the Night," have been described as "predecessors of the whole three-chord genre—the Ramones' 1978 'I Don't Want You,' for instance, was pure Kinks-by-proxy." In 1965, The Who quickly progressed from its debut single, "I Can't Explain", a virtual Kinks clone, to "My Generation". Though it had little impact on the American charts, The Who's mod anthem presaged a more cerebral mix of musical ferocity and rebellious posture that characterized much early British punk rock: John Reed describes The Clash's emergence as a "tight ball of energy with both an image and rhetoric reminiscent of a young Pete Townshend—speed obsession, pop-art clothing, art school ambition." The Who and fellow mods The Small Faces were among the few rock elders acknowledged by the Sex Pistols. By 1966, mod was already in decline. U.S. garage rock began to lose steam within a couple of years, but the aggressive musical approach and outsider attitude of "garage psych" bands like The Seeds were picked up and emphasized by groups that were later seen as the crucial figures of protopunk.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock#Garage_rock_and_mod
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I could mention not 10, probably 100 sources that make the Mod - Punk connection, and it's undeniable, unless you place the emphasis in the superfluous and early elemenst of the Mods , but the Mod movement evolved, became more and mnore violent, their fights with the Rockers are legendary, there was a strong anarchist sector of them which are considered almost as Proto Punks:
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I think it always help to have firsthand knowledge having been there and done that. I don't recognise much of the exactness of a lot of your second and third hand histories of periods of often chaotic/anarchic youth cultural shifts that lasted often less than a year, especially wrt the musical evolution and tastes. It is not that categoric. The Who were lower middle class like me, Small Faces more working class - both classes were on low incomes, and in a period when we could start to forget some the deprivations because of the aftermath of World War 2 . To repeat that brief period of history had move on by the time of the hippies - it was the skinheads who were anti-hippy. Many mods bands evolved into underground bands followed by many a mod. You'll note btw a lot of Paul Weller's retro-rock has echoes of Traffic, Nick Drake and even Family.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12818
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Posted: June 10 2008 at 18:39 |
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What seems to be missing from these "histories" is the influence of R'N'B - how can you write about a British mod scene without including the influences of the likes of John Lee Hooker - how many mod bands covered Boom Boom Boom in their acts, and then there was the rise of Atlantic Stax soul (Otis Redding took off amongst white British fans before he hit America, Sam & Dave are on record stating how important was the British scene to the success of their music). Every Friday night to "start the weekend" we had the TV show Ready Steady Go, crammed with mod bands and soul bands, surrounded by the faces.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: June 10 2008 at 23:49 |
Dick Heath wrote:
I think it always help to have firsthand knowledge having been there and done that. I don't recognise much of the exactness of a lot of your second and third hand histories of periods of often chaotic/anarchic youth cultural shifts that lasted often less than a year, especially wrt the musical evolution and tastes.
Of copurse it helps Dick, but this quotes are not second and third hand stories, The May Day 1964 Bank Holliday MOD riots are well documented, as the Brighton Riots also started by Mods.
You just bneed to visit any Punk Page like Punk77 (not working today) which is the biggest and mostrespectable, and you will see the tribute they pay to The Who (First era, they blame The Who also for the Rock Opera and betraying the 3.30 minutes Rock track)or The Kinks.
Last year The Who started a tour and guess who they choosed as their opener...Iggy Pop, the Grandfather of Punk and Townshend talked about how much they were related.
Listen My Generation and compare it with Punk tracks as My Sharona, of coutrse it's more elaborate, but the similarities are amazing.
It is not that categoric. The Who were lower middle class like me, Small Faces more working class - both classes were on low incomes, and in a period when we could start to forget some the deprivations because of the aftermath of World War 2 .
Yes Dick but you didn't kicked a cop in the balls as Pete did on stage or fought against the Rockers in gang riots, riots which of couurse are documented in thousands of pages, and I guess you were not part of the MODS.
You just need to see Quadrophenia, the violence that the work throws in our faces is undeniable:
Read Helpless Dancer from Quadrophenia
Helpless Dancer
When a man is running from his boss
Who hold a gun that fires "cost"
And people die from being cold
Or left alone because they're old
And bombs are dropped on fighting cats
And children's dreams are run with rats
If you complain you disappear
Just like the lesbians and queers
No one can love without the grace
Of some unseen and distant face
And you get beaten up by blacks
Who though they worked still got the sack
And when your soul tells you to hide
Your very right to die denied
And in the battle on the streets
You fight computers and receipts
And when a man is trying to change
But only causes further pain
You realize that all along
Something in us going wrong
You stop dancing. |
It could be a Punk lyric (well, too intelligent for that), The Who were musically Mods and also part of the movement (a least Keith Moon because Pete says he, Roger and John were fake Mods, more College material)
I've been in the late Hippie period, but never been a hippy, most surely you were not an active MOD.
To repeat that brief period of history had move on by the time of the hippies - it was the skinheads who were anti-hippy. Many mods bands evolved into underground bands followed by many a mod. You'll note btw a lot of Paul Weller's retro-rock has echoes of Traffic, Nick Drake and even Family.
You said the magic word EVOLVED, some of them did change their perspective of life, probably as they got popular and more successful, as many Punks did and became Yuppies.
| Most Mods simply drifted away, lured by the burgeoning Hippy counter culture and the first ‘Happenings’ that were taking place around this time. Hippy culture presented a passive outlook on life that was the total opposite of the Mod standpoint. The frenetic uptight-out-of-sight energy that had underpinned the Mod ethos had vanished.
There was a final stratum to the old Mod culture that rejected the new order absolutely. At the lowest end of the scale both in philosophy and appearance, the ‘Hard’ Mods were rougher all round than the rest of their comrades. Scruffier, and with cropped hair, they became the first Skinheads, keeping the original Mod music alive and retaining basic elements of the Mod look – Fred Perry sportswear and Levis - but mixing them with exaggerated working class trappings such as braces and the ubiquitous Dr Marten boot. The Skinheads would write a colourful and controversial history of their own in the coming decades – but that’s another story.
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But the original MOD movement was anti hippy, anti Rockers and anti stablishment.
Never said they were exactly as the Punks, but the Punk Movement rescued their rage against the priviledged classes.
It's also important to know that as in any movement there are levels of involvement, I my father's brother who was almost a hippy, he even bought his farm to live with nature, talked about society not having he right to own land, and incapable of using a gun.
But of course when the Revolution came and he was almost left with nothing by the Agriculture Reform, he was a land owner ready to take the weapons to fight for his property.
Equally the Mods were split
But soon the Mods split amid there own creation and into three well defined groups.
Regular Mods:
These were the loafer wearers, the narrow lapels and tight drainpipers who were pretty suited to all aspects of the movement. They were now into crew and v-neck sweaters, cashmere and
woolens and had kept the all important cool look with dark shades and black bowlers.
The Scooter Mods:
Were the casuals of the movement. The parka and Levi type and like the regulars favoured cashmere and woolen sweaters and now dressed thier bikes with adorning mirrors, fog-lamps
and spotlights making thier overall look the scooter as well as the garb.
The Fighting Mods:
This group would later evolved into the Skinheads and were the aggresive unit of the culture favouring the Doctor Martin heavy boot and dark jeans and were a reaction to the growing
Rocker movement.
The Rockers were the sworn enemies of the mods and the two fought long running battles with each other. Both sides standing for two totally seperate lifestyle values the feud came to a violent head with the infamous seaside resort brawl in Brighton on Britains three day
Easter Bank Holiday in 1964.
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The Punks followed the last group, but of course there were real Punks and posers, it happens everywhere.
So, the Mod essence was defined by the harder side of them with which most surely you were not involved.
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 10 2008 at 23:57
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: June 11 2008 at 07:55 |
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Simon King of Hawkwind and Opal Butterfly fame is IMO one of the great 1970s rock drummers but I've never seen him get as many dues as Neil Peart, Bill Ward or even Ian Paice.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 05 2005
Location: Love Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 5909
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Posted: June 11 2008 at 07:56 |
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Matthew Parmenter of DISCIPLINE
Woitek Szadkowski of COLLAGE and SATELLITE
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: June 11 2008 at 07:58 |
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Oh yeah, and through Cirith Ungol aren't on these archives IIRC their original lead guitarist Jerry Fogle (RIP) would in an ideal world be just as revered as Michael Schenker or Glenn Tipton.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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paolo.beenees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 1136
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Posted: June 11 2008 at 10:17 |
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The late Germano Serafin, guitarist in Le Orme from 1976 to 1980 (between "Storia o Leggenda" and "Piccola Rapsodia dell'Ape). Everybody keeps on forgetting him and his astounding elegance. Also in Italy, when TV broadcast and magazines mention some Italian guitarists, he's never in the bunch. That's a real pity.
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Zargus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3491
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Posted: June 16 2008 at 07:34 |
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Dave Stewart is on the same level as Wakeman and Emerson and my personal favorite keyboard player. But since he jumped around from band to band and was never part of any real big one he always seems to get forgoten.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: June 16 2008 at 15:00 |
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Leningrad
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7991
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Posted: June 16 2008 at 15:18 |
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I'm going to agree with 'every member of Area'.
I'd also like to add Michael Karoli of Can, whose improvisations are absolutely incredible and yet he somehow never gets mentioned in polls.
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kenmartree
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 14 2007
Location: oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 356
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Posted: June 23 2008 at 08:36 |
Prog-jester wrote:
Matthew Parmenter of DISCIPLINE
Woitek Szadkowski of COLLAGE and SATELLITE |
I second the vote of Mattew Parmenter, vocalist and multiinstrumentalist, so maybe he's not so underappreciated
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: June 23 2008 at 15:19 |
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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keiser willhelm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1697
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Posted: June 23 2008 at 17:22 |
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There are thousands who deserve so much attention but the first name that popped in my head was toby driver of Maudlin of the Well and Kayo Dot.
he has made, at least for me, the most exciting music of the last 10 years.
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BrufordFreak
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8430
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Posted: June 23 2008 at 21:44 |
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Keyboardist Richard Barbieri
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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preqT0THEseq7
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 02 2008
Location: Pominville
Status: Offline
Points: 94
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Posted: June 29 2008 at 16:55 |
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Guitarist Paul Waggoner
pretty much everyone from BTBAM
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Idk, My BFF Steve.
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: June 29 2008 at 17:17 |
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The most underapriciated musician?
I'm gonna have to go with Jake Reid.
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
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Posted: June 29 2008 at 17:21 |
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Jake Reid singlehanded paved the way for such as
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
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Posted: June 29 2008 at 17:22 |
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Poist rock would not exist as we know it today without Jake Reid's pioneering work.
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Shakespeare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 18 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7744
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Posted: June 29 2008 at 20:59 |
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I would argue Josh Scammell's earlier, more obscure works are even more important for the development of Poist rock.
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Most Under Appreciated Musician