ATPS #15: The Other Big 4

cacho wrote: Hercules wrote: Camel should have been on this list, as should Gentle Giant.Of those 4, I choose Tull, but Camel and Gentle Giant are better. Pretty damn right! If Rush is there also Uriah Heep, and Traffic?

Are you kidding me, guys? How many of you actually have heard all of Rush's main 1970s and 1980s albums and have actually talked to people? Their influence is amazingly widespread, they're some of the tightest musicians in all of rock, and since when did Heep and Traffic make as much of an impact on prog and rock in general as Rush did? Rush is 5th in the world for rock in the number of platinum and gold selling albums, even ahead of Pink Floyd.

Have you ears cleaned out and listen to 2112 or Hemispheres.


Edited by MovingPictures07 - May 10 2008 at 21:08

Hmm Gold and platinum! Great investments ! McDonald's and Coca Cola. Corporate giants .

cacho wrote: MovingPictures07 wrote: cacho wrote: Hercules wrote: Camel should have been on this list, as should Gentle Giant.Of those 4, I choose Tull, but Camel and Gentle Giant are better. Pretty damn right! If Rush is there also Uriah Heep, and Traffic? Are you kidding me, guys? How many of you actually have heard all of Rush's main 1970s and 1980s albums and have actually talked to people? Their influence is amazingly widespread, they're some of the tightest musicians in all of rock, and since when did Heep and Traffic make as much of an impact on prog and rock in general as Rush did? Rush is 5th in the world for rock in the number of platinum and gold selling albums, even ahead of Pink Floyd. Have you ears cleaned out and listen to 2112 or Hemispheres. I really care a damn of sales...

Every one of you three (cacho, tszirmay, jammun) are simply nitpicking that part of my argument simply because you have no way to counteract the fact that Rush were HUGE in rock AND prog: Listen to..

Caress of Steel
2112
Hemispheres
Permanent Waves
A Farewell to Kings

and more

AND not only that

But they have three of the BEST players at their respective instruments (especially Geddy Lee and Neil Peart)

AND

They kept prog alive in the 1980s along with King Crimson, producing art rock and prog-lite/influenced pieces all throughout the 1980s and until today.

Not even Jethro Tull or the others on this list have done that, and you're saying that Heep and Camel were just as influential to be included in the "BIG" artists as Rush?! You have to be kidding me! It's a joke.

I simply included the other information to even further my argument saying that Rush were extremely huge to conventional rock AS WELL AS to prog. Especially after your silly nitpickings and simply the enormous impact Rush has had (you can also tell that by going to the "what was your first introduction to prog" thread, I can't take your argument seriously.


Edited by MovingPictures07 - May 10 2008 at 23:36

Hercules wrote: Camel should have been on this list, as should Gentle Giant. Of those 4, I choose Tull, but Camel and Gentle Giant are better.

Zappa. Man.

TGM: Orb wrote: cesar polo wrote: Hercules wrote: Camel should have been on this list, as should Gentle Giant. Of those 4, I choose Tull, but Camel and Gentle Giant are better.   I completely agree: Camel and Gentle Giant should have been on the list. Why?

easy.. Camel is easy listening and some people here like them.. that makes them a BIG prog group

no arguments with GG.. but who to bump.. next 4 I guess...

Well, hell just froze over as I am very into Jethro Tull now. I would've gone with Frank Zappa, but I don't like the vast majority of his solo stuff. If it were The Mothers of Invention, though, they'd get my vote in a heartbeat!

MovingPictures07 wrote: cacho wrote: MovingPictures07 wrote: cacho wrote: Hercules wrote: Camel should have been on this list, as should Gentle Giant.Of those 4, I choose Tull, but Camel and Gentle Giant are better. Pretty damn right! If Rush is there also Uriah Heep, and Traffic? Are you kidding me, guys? How many of you actually have heard all of Rush's main 1970s and 1980s albums and have actually talked to people? Their influence is amazingly widespread, they're some of the tightest musicians in all of rock, and since when did Heep and Traffic make as much of an impact on prog and rock in general as Rush did? Rush is 5th in the world for rock in the number of platinum and gold selling albums, even ahead of Pink Floyd. Have you ears cleaned out and listen to 2112 or Hemispheres. I really care a damn of sales... Every one of you three (cacho, tszirmay, jammun) are simply nitpicking that part of my argument simply because you have no way to counteract the fact that Rush were HUGE in rock AND prog: Listen to.. Caress of Steel 2112 Hemispheres Permanent Waves A Farewell to Kings and more AND not only that But they have three of the BEST players at their respective instruments (especially Geddy Lee and Neil Peart) AND They kept prog alive in the 1980s along with King Crimson, producing art rock and prog-lite/influenced pieces all throughout the 1980s and until today. Not even Jethro Tull or the others on this list have done that, and you're saying that Heep and Camel were just as influential to be included in the "BIG" artists as Rush?! You have to be kidding me! It's a joke. I simply included the other information to even further my argument saying that Rush were extremely huge to conventional rock AS WELL AS to prog. Especially after your silly nitpickings and simply the enormous impact Rush has had (you can also tell that by going to the "what was your first introduction to prog" thread, I can't take your argument seriously.

Thank you for a little sanity. I feel ashamed that I wasn't able to join in that.

^

Uh...whut? Rush are huge in the prog genre. They've influenced countless bands, and combined a hard rock and progressive style in a commercially successful manner. Someone who's just gotten into prog will almost certainly end up getting a Rush album before they get a Camel or Uriah Heep one.

Moving Pictures #16, here
A Farewell To Kings #24

Moonmadness #29

Camel weren't ever huge in symphonic, though they are now more appreciated than they previously were. Conversely, Rush absolutely dominates the heavy progressive genre, has inspired lots of other bands. It's like saying Floyd isn't huge in the progressive genre.

cacho wrote: TGM: Orb wrote: ^Uh...whut? Rush are huge in the prog genre. They've influenced countless bands, and combined a hard rock and progressive style in a commercially successful manner. Someone who's just gotten into prog will almost certainly end up getting a Rush album before they get a Camel or Uriah Heep one.Moving Pictures #16, hereA Farewell To Kings #24Moonmadness #29Camel weren't ever huge in symphonic, though they are now more appreciated than they previously were. Conversely, Rush absolutely dominates the heavy progressive genre, has inspired lots of other bands. It's like saying Floyd isn't huge in the progressive genre. Huh? Floyd is, Rush not.. That's it. Get out the Heep and Camel stuff, cause in my last post I didn't put them in. Just cause the rankings, pfff, that's low. I will(would) never get a Rush album and would never recomend any. Wouldn't say that anyone who gets onto prog will get a Rush album, as far as I am concerned 50% or more thought that Rush were a hard rock band, also Heep I won't denie that, but not Camel. Certainly someone will get Camel albums if they're interested in symphonic prog like Genesis and Yes. Before getting a Rush one. Myself that I love 70's hard rock a la Deep Purple, Zeppelin, Sabbath and heavy prog like Black Widow, Atomic Rooster and Heep, don't like Rush, and I don't consider them as huge, cause I've never heard somebody saying prog with Rush.

Neither in this post nor your previous one have you provided ANY concrete evidence or backup for any of your claims. If you're going to be a Rush hater, fine. I didn't say you had to LIKE Rush. I really don't care if you do.

As a matter of fact, I don't like Pink Floyd. I think their music is simplistic, I think their albums are WAY overrated, and I simply don't like them. HOWEVER, I would never say that they are not big in prog and I recognize and admire their ability to create unique music that has gone on to be extremely innovative and influential.

Your closed-mindedness doesn't allow you to do the same for Rush.

If you're going to continue to argue, I'll continue to provide evidence. Show me aspects of the 1970s progressive movement, and I will show you that Rush satisfies nearly every single one of them (if not every, which I'm sure they would). Additionally, Rush has the advantage of opening the entirety of Canada and the United States to the prog scene that weren't quite as directly impacted as Britain (Kansas did similarly, but not NEAR to such a degree).

Most importantly and key to being called a BIG artist, Camel is UNKNOWN OUTSIDE OF PROG. My friend, who has been into progressive metal and rock for a few years, even didn't know of Camel until I told him. However, Rush reaches out to influence even more bands in the prog realm alone, let alone outside into a more classic rock setting and even reaching metal (Metallica was influenced by Rush).


Simply put: You didn't address absolutely anything worthwhile in my post. When you come up with a good argument, I'd be glad to debate it with you. However, until then, please keep your opinion, feel free to express it, but try to be more open-minded. Like I and TGM: Orb have said:

Rush created a unique hybrid of heavy progressive rock and later on with commercial success that has influenced many bands in rock, PROG (most importantly), and even metal.

EDIT: If you want the rest of my argument, refer to my last post, which I'm not even sure you read all the way through.


Edited by MovingPictures07 - May 11 2008 at 15:10