Theism v. Atheism in Prog

Drumolator wrote: keiser willhelm wrote: As a christian prog listener, and a free-thinker (somehow these terms are now mutually exclusive? **laughs**) i ALSO find almost all christian music to be boring, bland, and as ^ he points out, saccharine.  Its not impossible to make good, religious music but so far no one has. Thats because too many people see the point of religious music to be NOT the music itself but the message, the lyrics. thats why the lyrics so often get in the way. They come before the music which only acts as a context for the message. bleh.   For some good Christian prog try Proto Kaw (Kerry Livgren's band), Neal Morse, and Glass Hammer (the last two especially).   The lyrics matter to me, and just like anyone else, if I find something that bugs me about the lyrics, I will not listen again.  To each his/her own!  Peace.

I have sampled a little Neal Morse and some Glass Hammer a long time ago. I wasn't too into it (not really big on Neo in general) Ive been planning on giving it another try.
Lyrics matter to me, and i really appreciate well thought out, interesting lyrics. Toby driver, Maynard Keenan, and whoever writes lyrics for the Pax Cecilia are some favorites of mine.
but at the same time, the lyrics have to add or at least not detract from the music itself in terms of how they sound. (why i like jon anderson and dont just "put up" with him)

I listen to Christian, athiest/anti-religious, and satanic music... never am I really thinking "wow I would rather if they were ___", music is a form of expression and as long as they're expressing something that fits the music I'm indifferent to exactly what it is.. I even listen to some NSBM (national socialist black metal) which is known for racism, but I'm not one bit a racist, I might even listen to a bit of hip hop afterwards haha

keiser willhelm wrote: Its not impossible to make good, religious music but so far no one has. Thats because too many people see the point of religious music to be NOT the music itself but the message, the lyrics. thats why the lyrics so often get in the way. They come before the music which only acts as a context for the message. bleh.

Well said. I totally agree, as far as prog is concerned. I can't think of any prog that's determinedly atheist, apart from the well-known AQUALUNG. Something like VDGG, perhaps? As for religious ecstasy, I guess you there's plenty in "Nous sommes du soleil" and even RELAYER, but many people are going to find Jonnie A's lyrics laughable... Most of the greatest religious music (which still thrills me, even though I lost my faith long ago) uses the same handful of Latin texts, which seemed to be inexhaustible, at least from the Middle Ages until the 19th century. A pity (but totally understandable, of course) that no decent prog bands have ever tried using those...

I would go as far as to say Yes in the early days was a religious band. . . but who knows what the hell that man was writing about. CTTE is as close to a religious experience as you can get since the second coming. there was even a lyrical analysis of CTTE that someone did a while ago that linked religion into the song as an intrinsic part. That organ solo alone is a big nod to bach/church music, bach writing almost exclusively religious music (even if only in theory, i think he said at one point tat everything he did he did to glorify God so. . . he must have peed fountains of gold and turned urinal water to wine. id believe it too, listening to his music) and being well known for his organ skills/composing. 

fuxi wrote: [QUOTE=keiser willhelm] Its not impossible to make good, religious music but so far no one has. Thats because too many people see the point of religious music to be NOT the music itself but the message, the lyrics. thats why the lyrics so often get in the way. They come before the music which only acts as a context for the message. bleh.

Well said. I totally agree, as far as prog is concerned. I can't think of any prog that's determinedly atheist, apart from the well-known AQUALUNG. Something like VDGG, perhaps? QUOTE] In my opinion it's one thing to question the existance of a creator...explore the reasons why we're here as everyone does (VdGG), and to look at the downfalls of organized religion (Aqualung).  Neither of these imply that there is no "god", it's more of attempt to be critical but fair.  As I've said, if an artist can pull it off with class in either direction, then they should be respected and applauded, regardless of philosophical stances.  So...yes, in this case, I think that the music, or the ART, is bigger than the belief.

Trademark wrote: "CTTE is as close to a religious experience as you can get since the second coming" UNTIL the second coming.  It hasn't happened yet.  Otherwise a completely true statement.

Ha ha thanks. i was having trouble wording that.

Trademark wrote: "CTTE is as close to a religious experience as you can get since the second coming" UNTIL the second coming.  It hasn't happened yet.  Otherwise a completely true statement.

OK no more wisecracks about coming again. 

explodingjosh wrote: fuxi wrote: [QUOTE=keiser willhelm] Its not impossible to make good, religious music but so far no one has. Thats because too many people see the point of religious music to be NOT the music itself but the message, the lyrics. thats why the lyrics so often get in the way. They come before the music which only acts as a context for the message. bleh. Well said. I totally agree, as far as prog is concerned. I can't think of any prog that's determinedly atheist, apart from the well-known AQUALUNG.

Woah, woah, woah. Aqualung wasn't atheist. It was very anti-church and anti-religious, but the song "My God" (well atleast my interp. of, it but I thought the meaning was pretty clear) is about how the church has God locked up in a golden cage, not about how he doesn't exist altogether.
[/QUOTE

Trademark wrote: "CTTE is as close to a religious experience as you can get since the second coming" UNTIL the second coming.  It hasn't happened yet.  Otherwise a completely true statement.