the pope turns "green". what do you think? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Salvo_

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Joined: February 27 2008
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Posted: April 03 2008 at 19:37

StyLaZyn wrote:

Salvo_ wrote:

It annoys me when people act so obnoxiously, so I respond in kind. I have not attacked anyone for being an atheist or whatever, I have only responded when they have felt the need to attack me. The strength of my convictions has nothing to do with it: nobody's mind changes on an internet forum, and I'm not trying to. I'm just trying to get people to stop being such militant b*****ds about it, and occasionally educate them about the real truth behind the falsehoods they are proclaiming (although Ivan has most of that covered).

I noticed your tag line said "freedom". Does this include freedom of opinion? To quote a friend "Just saying!" Smile

Am I alone in finding very ironic your comment about militant?

I respect respectful opinions. And you started it. :P

cuncuna

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Posted: April 03 2008 at 20:20

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

cuncuna wrote:

This one was a huge fan of our last dictatorship. If to kill is a sin, ¿howcome there are military priests? I think that theres even a ceremony of blessing of weapons... I know, I know, I already posted this, but it was the wrong thread.

In most of the countries as mine, and according to the new Catholic Treaty, the Military Chaplain has no rank and obeys his cooncience before the orders of their superiors.

Even the USA army (guided by an old treaty with the Vatican) who allow a Priest to have a rank, allows the priest to disobey the orders that he considers unjust, the Chaplain is not there to take a bazooka and blow the enemu, he's there to provice councelling and peace of mind to the soldiers.

Every Catholic has a right to receive the marriage, communion, confession and last rites, and the only way to allow a Priest have access to certain Catholics in specific places is having a rank (duty of silence), or do you want that the priests ignore the rights of Catholics dying in the battlefield to receive the last rites? As a fact, a military Chaplain must give the last rites in a battlefield EVEN TO THE ENEMY.

Only people with highranks are alñlowed to enter to certain facilities, all the Catholics have the right to listen mass once a week, so the Chaplain needs a rank

Please Cuncuna, everytghing you said has been refuted with arguments, proved wrong several times, plñease if you don't know about something or you don't understand the reasons, stop creating confussion, you dared to say that the Pope said there was noo hell, and proved wrong, Theology is a complex issue, if you don't understand it because you don't care (as you said repeatedly), then stop providing false information vbased in what a friend told you.

Then you said that Catholic Church excluded other religions from salvation, again I proved you were wrong, now you come with this

The blessing of some weapons is an archaic ceremony already not used, but even if it happens in some places, it's only a ceremony, there are just and injust wars, the Church accepts that. But the blessibng (only ceremomnial) doesn't give the weapons extraordinary powers, the function of the blessing was to allow the owner to make a just and honest use of the weapon and avoid crimes and abuse.

Iván

Let's see... I already said (with no problem for me at all) that what I vaguely remembered as a pope oficial decalration of "helll doesn not exist" was wrong. I heard it once from the tv and that's it. As for the rest ¿how have I been proved wrong? ¿isn't there enough oximorons and contradictions? so... the church doesn't accept homosexuality, but accept the homosexual. ¿would you care to explain how can this be done given that you need homosexuals to have homosexuality?. As for weapons and military... ¿you can recognize certain conducts as sins and have a job that is widely based on one of them?. As for child abuse, I don't see how in the world would you think I think it is ok. The fact is, the last decade here left us with several convited cases of priestes child abusers. Many of them were peacefully sent to exile, so they can reflect on what they've done or something. ¿What does this mean? ¿You can be a holly man AND
a child abuser?. I don't get it. As said, too many contradictions. You quoting the basic rules from the
catholic instruction manual is not convincing, since too many members seem unable to live by them. Also, I don't apreciate being called a fanatic, but if I need to talk like one, a religion that should see christ in those who suffer should have their churches opened every night
to prevent homeless people to freeze to death literaly.

Edited by cuncuna - April 03 2008 at 20:22

¡Beware of the Bee!

cuncuna

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Posted: April 03 2008 at 20:32

And by the way, maybe I don't have enough brain to understand theology (or I have too much and therefore my interest is 0), but I do know that a blessed weapons (as, for example, every new piece of weaponry that Chilean army buys until today) is still an instrument of death. Or maybe I'm not aware of something, let's say, that the blessing turns the weapon into a holly device of love.
Perhaps I'm too dumb and I can't see this.

¡Beware of the Bee!

StyLaZyn

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Posted: April 03 2008 at 20:49

cuncuna wrote:

And by the way, maybe I don't have enough brain to understand theology (or I have too much and therefore my interest is 0), but I do know that a blessed weapons (as, for example, every new piece of weaponry that Chilean army buys until today) is still an instrument of death. Or maybe I'm not aware of something, let's say, that the blessing turns the weapon into a holly device of love.
Perhaps I'm too dumb and I can't see this.

Something so universal that applies to all men should be easily understood without the need for in depth knowledge of theology.

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Posted: April 03 2008 at 22:04

cuncuna wrote:

You want me to number them?

Well here they go:

1.- Cuncuna wrote:

Catholic church makes it difficult for me to know if they are against things for good or for bad reasons, but I'm certain of this: catholic church won't invest a cent into actual environmental protection.

Oops, you forgot this one also? I have proved you that the Vatican State (ergo the Catholic Church) has invested millions of Euros in providing ONLY clean solar energy to the country and will soon be ready to sell the superavit to Rome.

2.- Cuncuna wrote:

Catholic church seems to be against other religions as well

Again you're wrong, Catholic Church is in constant work with other Churches, not only Christians, the Pope went to visit every religious leader in the world when he was on journey.....Strike two

2.- Cuncuna wrote:

that catholic boss recently talked about how there was no salvation outside catholic church

I just posted this

The "Dogmatic Constitution on the Church - Lumen Gentium" (1964) is one of many documents to come out of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council (often referred to as "Vatican II"). The Council was held in Rome between 1962 and 1965. Lumen Gentium" contains in its Chapter 1 an essay on "The Mystery of the church." Sections 14 to 16 describe the potential for salvation of:

	Followers of the Catholic Church,
	Members of other Christian denominations, and
	Believers of non-Christian religions. ₅

5. The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm

Oops another "mistake", possibly, but it's strange that I posted this three times and you keep repeating the nonsesnse that the Poope said there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

STRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEE THREE

Do you insist that you don't keep talking about things you don't understand?

Not because you don't have brain, but because you clearly said that you heard it on TV or a friend told you, etc, please verify accusations before you say them as a fact.

I could follow, you given more wrong facts but 4 buttons are enough.

¿isn't there enough oximorons and contradictions? so... the church doesn't accept homosexuality, but accept the homosexual. ¿would you care to explain how can this be done given that you need homosexuals to have homosexuality?.

I'll explain it with a simple example so you understand it:

The Church accepts single man and woman,
Tthe Church doesn't accept sex between them.
ERGO.......The Church accepts the person, but not the act,

As a fact (another mistake) HOMOSEXUAL SEX IS NOT A SPECIAL SIN, IT'S A SIN AGAINST CHASTITY, ECXACTLY AS SEX OUTSIDE MARRIAGE BETWEEN HETEROSEXUAL PEOPLE, OR DO YOU BELIEVE THE CHURCH IS ALSO HETEROPHOBIC?.

As for weapons and military... ¿you can recognize certain conducts as sins and have a job that is widely based on one of them?.

Does the Church sells or makes weapons? The weapons exist, you can't deny that, there's a fair use of weapons and an unfair use of weapons,

Now, the Military Chaplain is there to protect the souls of the Catholic soldiers, they don't fight, they only give spiritual counselling (THAT WAS ANOTHER MISTAKE OF YOU),

As for child abuse, I don't see how in the world would you think I think it is ok.

Nobody has said it's OK, seems you're a bit obsessed so now you invent words, nobody can be so stupid to say that child abuse is OK, the point is that the number of pedophile convicted priests is only 1.8% of the accused, that's wrong and they must be judged by the human laws, but not burned by the press and fanatics without a fair trial

But also remember the number and incidence of sexual misconduct in the priests is inferior to the percentage in most religions and much smaller than parents, grandparents or tutors, that this is wrong, it's wrong, but it's the act of a human, judge him, not the Church

The fact is, the last decade here left us with several convited cases of priestes child abusers. Many of them were peacefully sent to exile, so can reflect on what they've done or something.

Are you sure of that?????

Do you know how many priests have been convicted? Less than 0.2% of the accused (most of them in USA because the Catholic Church has money), and nobody talks about the 99.8 of the innocent falsely accused.

BTW: Again you are speaking ionsenses, no person convicted of a sexual case can be sent to peacefull exile, IF SOMEBODY IS CONVICTED OF A SEXUAL CRIME HE GOES TO JAIL, UNLESS THE USA JUDICIAL SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK.

The Church has no power over the judicial system.

So again, you are talking without knowledge

¿What does this mean? ¿You can be a holly man ANDa child abuser?.

No you can't, if you are found guilty, you go to jail, but being accused is not being guilty.

Again Cuncuna, nobody said a child abuser can be a holy man except you, stop placing words in our moths.

I don't get it. As said, too many contradictions.

Of course you see them, you believe is wrong for the Pope to talk about evironment, so what can we expect.

You quoting the basic rules from the catholic instruction manual is not convincing, since too many members seem unable to live by them.

There's no instruction manuals in the Catholic Church, I quote OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS and OFFICIAL WORDS OF THE POPE, much more than you have done until now, talking aboiut what you heard on TV or what your friend said

Also, I don't apreciate being called a fanatic, but if I need to talk like one, a religion that should see christ in those who suffer should have their churches opened every night
to prevent homeless people to freeze to death literaly.

There are MILLINS OF FREE CARE CENTERS PÄID BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, but in the monasteries live people who deserve protection.

Doi you know how many priests are killed, nuns raped or Churches robbed? Of course you don't, you have said repeatedly you don't care for anything related with Church.

There's a place for everything, the Church gives free hostage, medical care and food to the hungry in centers created by them, the Temple is a place for praying.

But in case of hurricanes, tornados or earthquakes, even the temples open their doors to help people.

Lets follow:

stonebeard wrote:

I don't think anyone is getting upset at Catholics, per se, just the so-called authority of the pope to bring into and out of existence new mortal sins.

We believe that authority was given by God:

Matthew 16:18 “I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower ii 19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

I think he's doing his job.

"Yesterday, you'd go to hell for this sin, but not today!"

Of course, because times change and so must the Church, in the Bible days it was legal to have slaves, today it isn't.

But things don't change, the point is that times and situations change and the Pope must analyze them, the Bible says don't kill, in the days of Jesus throiwing your trash wasn't a big problem for humanity, today that trash may kill humanity, this is only a new understanding of the text adapted to our reality.

Here we go again:

cuncuna wrote:

And by the way, maybe I don't have enough brain to understand theology (or I have too much and therefore my interest is 0),

If youtr interest is 0, then don't talk about what you don't know, I don't know adavanced chemistry or care about it, then if somebody WHO KNOWS says something about it, I wouldn't dare to contradict him/her, because i may be corrected as you've been several times.

About your brain...I don't know, you seem a normal intelligent person (with a lot of hatred against the Church), but neither I'm a psycologyst or ever made you a test.

but I do know that a blessed weapons (as, for example, every new piece of weaponry that Chilean army buys until today) is still an instrument of death.

It's only a ritual, and I'm not sure is done today,m but if it's done, it's done so God watches it's used with justice, not to give superpowers to a weapon.

Or maybe I'm not aware of something, let's say, that the blessing turns the weapon into a holly device of love.
Perhaps I'm too dumb and I can't see this.

No, it doesn't turn it into nothing, the Pope may bless you in person, but if you are a murderer blessing, it has no power or meaning,

Just a thing, if your family is going to be killed or your country invaded, a weapon is an instrument of justice.

You just need a bit of imagination.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 03 2008 at 22:20

Salvo_

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Posted: April 03 2008 at 22:09

Ivan wins the thread again. But, of course, nobody will listen and we'll keep having people say dumb things.

Your words, they make no sense. What are you talking about?

StyLaZyn

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 08:29

Salvo_ wrote:

Ivan wins the thread again.

I thought this was a discourse. How can one win something that has nothing that can not be answered in this place/time if at all? There is no winner. Views are presented and folks agree or disagree.

By the way, last night on the History Channel, a number of scholars were discussing whether Jesus actually was resurrected or if it was just the style of writing in the New Testament. It was pointed out that dreams were thought to be reality and since so many followers were distraught by the death of Jesus, their subconscious had to create a self-defense mechanism to lessen the blow of the tragedy. It was an interesting idea since back in that time people didn't understand what dreams were really about.

Edited by StyLaZyn - April 04 2008 at 12:10

Salvo_

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 10:38

StyLaZyn wrote:

Salvo_ wrote:

Ivan wins the thread again.

I thought this was a discourse. How can one win something that has nothing that can be answered in this place/time if at all? There is no winner. Views are presented and folks agree or disagree.

Holy crap, you guys are so far behind on internet lingo.

Yeah, they died for a dream created by their subconscious. Which they all had at the same time in exactly the same way. Sure. Give them some credit, they knew dreams weren't real. Also, more than just the apostles saw Jesus resurrected (although I assume they'll claim that is a lie).

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 10:48

Stylasyn wrote:

I thought this was a discourse. How can one win something that has nothing that can be answered in this place/time if at all? There is no winner. Views are presented and folks agree or disagree.

I don’t pretend to win, but in the case of my last post the purpose was to prove that Cuncuna lied repeatedly or maybe talked about things he didn’t knew or understood as if this were facts.

He repeatedly said:

That the Catholic Church hated all other religions; This was proved to be false, being that the Catholic Church is the one that has collaborated more with other confessions, in favor of a unity, with the Christians (even trying to reach an understanding with Orthodoxs, Anglicans and Lutherans mainly) and a relation of mutual respect among other different religions as Moslems and Jrewishs

That the Catholic Church is homophobic and hates the homosexual (because a friend of him that we don’t know if he knows what’s talking about told him): Again this was proved false with official documents of the Church and with the fact that homosexual acts are catalogued as sins against chastity, exactly as heterosexual acts outside the marriage, the same dovcuments says that the Homosexual as person deserves protection and pastoral counseling as any person.

That John Paul II said (and he even dared to give wrong quotes) that hell doesn’t exist just to be contradicted by the next Benedictus XVI: This was proven to be a fallacy, the Pope never said it and he wasn’t able to understand the text.

That the Catholic Church doesn’t admit salvation outside this religion; But in this case he repeated it three times, and three times was proven wrong and misleading with official documents.

That the Catholic Church wouldn’t invest a cent in environmental issues: He even dared to say that he was certain of this: Well I also proved that he was wrong and trying to mislead again, that several millions were invested in providing clean solar energy to all the Holy See.

With incredible ignorance not only of theology but also of human laws, he said that convivted pedophiles were sent to comfortable exile to think of their sins; This was not only ridiculous because we know that if a person is convicted of sexual depravity or child abuse is sent to jail as any criminal but also misleading, because he tries to make people believe that the Church can overturn a veredict.

And many more things that were proved wrong, I don’t know if he lies on purpose or simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about, but all his accusations were proved wrong, he even gave the idea that Priests went to war as soldiers, when the function of a military Chaplain is totally different.

So I guess the truth won against the person who lies to discredit the Catholic Church with an incredible number of false and even ridiculous statements

Stylasyn wrote:

Oh, I love this programs, like the one empty Tomb of Jesus, they even said they had DNA evidence (Nobody has Christ or Mary Magdalene DNA, may except the Imuminaty )

All the Hollywood director proved was that three persons who’s DNA proved had no family relation and had the most common names in early Christianity were buried together, from there they invented a complex story and turned reality into fiction with no coherence, to the point that no Christian Church even lost their time talking about iyt, because it was so silly that nobody discovered anything.

Now they dare to say they know that the apostles were dreaming when they saw Christ, well I guess it’s possible, but very weird when 12 persons were together at determined moment and saw Christ…Maybe the 12 dreamed the same thing simultaneously?.

In no case Jesus appeared to one person after his death, he always did to at least two persons together, and unless there’s a massive dream, I don’t get their point.

How this pseudo scientists dare to talk about people they haven’t talked with or analyzed their state of mind or sanity?

It’s easy to make wild guesses, but the four Gosples and even the apocryphal ones say exactly the same things of what happened after Christ’s death.

But History Channel is making money with this and entertaining people with their stories, without any base.

Ivan

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 10:56

StyLaZyn wrote:

By the way, last night on the History Channel, a number of scholars were discussing whether Jesus actually was resurrected or if it was just the style of writing in the New Testament.

As it was said in The Simpsons:

"Oh a scientist with a white robe...it must be thuth"

Please guys, psycologists declare in a trial (after being paid by the prosecution) that a serial killer is sane, but weeks later they say on a similar case (after being paid by the defebnse) that another similar serial killer in insane.

Iván

StyLaZyn

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 12:20

Accounts in the Bible are taken as gospel truth...pun not intended. Since anything that contradicts was deemed heretical, it's no wonder things are as they are. This makes me think...banning books is something reminiscent of Communist Russia. Only when eyes are opened and the seer chooses to see the truth can he escape the handcuffs.

"The path is clear
Though no eyes can see
The course laid down long before.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Though many times they've seen the way to leave."

and there it is...

cuncuna

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 12:46

I don't have the time right now to answer all the points, but I'll start with this. Is in spanish, I'm affraid, so I'll just post the link. Pay special atention to the paragraphs that follows the phrase "más casos en chile", and stop calling me fanatic or liar, my mom told me it was wrong to be a fanatic or a liar:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/latin_america/newsid_2340000/2340865.stm

Also, quit using the lawyer mind trick; I can use the same reasoning to conclude that a blessed gun will be a holly device until used to kill someone. And even after killing, the object can remain blessed, since it doesn't shoot itself autmatically. As for gay population, I guess I can go for the same approach. An homosexual person is not and can't be decalred to be homosexuality, because homosexuality is a concept and not a person. Therefore, yes, I guess catholic church does accept homosexuals. And I havent' said priests go to war as soldiers, I say that the inner logic of armed conflicts should be reason
enough to any church to stay away from it. As for other religions, you and I live in places where catholic church pretty much destroyed any trace of local religions (thought there still are some Viracocha followers around, so I guess this is also a lie because obviously the survival proves me wrong).

¡Beware of the Bee!

stonebeard View Drop Down

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 12:56

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

StyLaZyn wrote:

By the way, last night on the History Channel, a number of scholars were discussing whether Jesus actually was resurrected or if it was just the style of writing in the New Testament.

As it was said in The Simpsons:

"Oh a scientist with a white robe...it must be thuth"

Iván

Don't discount all of academia based on one hypothetical situation. It's a lot better than relying on things without a empirical basis.

What you should have bolded and commented on was "...last night on the History Channel." That network is so discredited and sensationalist now even bringing it up makes the argument even that less convincing.

My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!

Salvo_

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 13:55

StyLaZyn wrote:

Accounts in the Bible are taken as gospel truth...pun not intended. Since anything that contradicts was deemed heretical, it's no wonder things are as they are. This makes me think...banning books is something reminiscent of Communist Russia. Only when eyes are opened and the seer chooses to see the truth can he escape the handcuffs.

"The path is clear
Though no eyes can see
The course laid down long before.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Though many times they've seen the way to leave."

and there it is...

See, T, this is what I'm talking about. I do not make any broad statements like this, but here he is implying that I am ignorant/stupid/blind because I dare to believe in God, with helpful Floyd lyrics. Now stop it, you're being a jerk.

And for those who don't know their internet slang, win and ftl

StyLaZyn

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 14:13

Salvo_ wrote:

And for those who don't know their internet slang, win and ftl

As did I once dare to believe in god. With my whole heart and soul.

crimhead

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 14:45

Just another reason for religion to control the masses. We all know that man pollutes we need not the pope or whomever to tell us that we do.

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 15:15

Play me my song...

StyLaZyn wrote:

Accounts in the Bible are taken as gospel truth...pun not intended. Since anything that contradicts was deemed heretical, it's no wonder things are as they are.

I think you are mixing religions Stylasyn, the problem Catholic Church has seen in the Bible is that IT MUST NOT BE UNDERSTOOD LITERALLY:

"In this long journey of thought the concept of inerrancy was not rejected but was seriously modified to fit the evidence of biblical criticism which showed that the Bible was not inerrant in questions of science, of history, and even of time-conditioned religious beliefs."

The Second Vatican Council

So the Church clearly says that the Bible can present errors in questions oof Science, History and Time.

So your statement is wrong as many more that thave been said here.

This makes me think...banning books is something reminiscent of Communist Russia. Only when eyes are opened and the seer chooses to see the truth can he escape the handcuffs.

Banning what books? Since the Inquisition was closed (and for what the Pope has asked forgiveness as I said 20 times), there's no book banned, the pope may recommend to Catholics not to read a determined nook, like in the case of The Da Vinci Code, not because the book is bad, but because it's a fiction work that creates distorsion and mixes fantasy with reality in matters of faith.

But there's no prohibition or sanction for reading it, I have read it and seen the movie, which BTW sucks, it's a cheao detective story with a costume of pomp.

So..What are you talking about???

Here we go again:

cuncuna wrote:

I don't have the time right now to answer all the points,

You have the time Cuncuna, you have repeatedly participated in his thread each time you wanted toi attack the Catholic Church, but when you are proved wrong...Then you kick the board and ignore everything.

Nice tactic

but I'll start with this. Is in spanish, I'm affraid, so I'll just post the link. Pay special atention to the paragraphs that follows the phrase "más casos en chile", and stop calling me fanatic or liar, my mom told me it was wrong to be a fanatic or a liar:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/latin_america/newsid_2340000/2340865.stm

I have read this piece of trash, and call it like that because as usual they shout pedophile but mix people accused with people convivted, lets see:

Father Tato is wrong, but there's no formal accusation against him, by the contrary, it's siuposed the priest had a son with an 18 years woman (Probably according the law, 18 years is minor), but nobody knows if this case is abuse or concensual sex. STILL NOT CONVICTED
In the second casethe Franciscan Gerardo Araujo Saravia...WAS NOT CONVICTED, the Church decided to retire his vows as priest and he was deported to his country Perú by the Chilean Justice to avoid problems...Don't blame the Church for that.
In the third case of abuse of two minors, doesn't say if the Priest was convicted, which I doubt, because he was allowed to move to Santiago de Chile by the justice...If he would had been convicted he would be behind bars, unless the justice in Chile sucks.
All the other cases are ACCUSATIONS that's all, if they are proved guilty, let them burn, but until then, the men are innocent.

This doesn't mean i support any improper conduct or abuse, neither the Church, the Vatican has accused formally the first Priest before the Civil authorities, but this kind of sensationalist press is the cause of the pr0oblems, they talk crap without any prove simply accusations..

Also, quit using the lawyer mind trick;

Lawyers don't have mind tricks, those are Jedis.

I can use the same reasoning to conclude that a blessed gun will be a holly device until used to kill someone. And even after killing, the object can remain blessed, since it doesn't shoot itself autmatically.

Yes of course..And what.

A priest can bless your dog and that dog bite and kill a person

A Priest can bless any artifact in a house and that artifact used to kill somebody.

So what's your point?

As for gay population, I guess I can go for the same approach. An homosexual person is not and can't be decalred to be homosexuality, because homosexuality is a concept and not a person. Therefore, yes, I guess catholic church does accept homosexuals.

Please translate

And I havent' said priests go to war as soldiers, I say that the inner logic of armed conflicts should be reason
enough to any church to stay away from it.

So...must a Priest leave a Catholic soldier die in a field without the last ritual....So can't military personal marry before the eyes of God, Please think before you talk.

A priest must be in the worst neiborhoods, in the most dangerous war zones and wherever he's required.

As for other religions, you and I live in places where catholic church pretty much destroyed any trace of local religions

Yes, it was consider heresy in 1535 to 1750 but don't blame the Church only, blame Spanish Monarchy, blame Conquerors, blame slavists, etc.

In USA they not only destroyed native religions, but also the natives, in South africa was Worst, why don't you look at thoise cases?

BTW: The Pope has already asked pardon) and what, times change, today there's absolutefreedom of religion.

(thought there still are some Viracocha followers around, so I guess this is also a lie because obviously the survival proves me wrong).

Please translate to something we all can understand, most Wiracocha followers are turist atractions and ask for tip in perfect English,.

Oh my God.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 04 2008 at 18:03

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 15:18

crimhead wrote:

Just another reason for religion to control the masses. We all know that man pollutes we need not the pope or whomever to tell us that we do.

Then ignore him, keep polluting, a clear not polluted world must be evil because the Pope proposed to save the environment.

The Pope is telling Catholics and those who want to listen him, he's investing millions in doing something no other nation does, I guess you should care, unless you are doing something better.

Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 04 2008 at 15:43

StyLaZyn

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 16:15

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

crimhead wrote:

Just another reason for religion to control the masses. We all know that man pollutes we need not the pope or whomever to tell us that we do.

Then ignore him, keep polluting, a clear not polluted world must be evil because the Pope proposed to save the environment.

The Pope is telling Catholics and those who want to listen him, he's investing millions in doing something no other nation does, I guess you should care, unless you are doing something better.

Iván

Every leader of every religion should do likewise. As should leaders of nations. It comes down to those that have authority using their power to do what is best for everyone.

Although I heard something come out in the news that 2008 is predicted to be the coldest year in quite some time. Watch the Global Warning naysayers have a field day with that. We all know, one year does not make a difference.

Angelo

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Posted: April 04 2008 at 16:35

Actually, StyLaZyn, researchers have concluded that average temperature has not risen over the past 10 years - as it was broadcast on the news over here today. That still doesn't proof anything, however, as you say.

More related: your post seems to be the one most on topic in 3 pages. Let's continue on that track.

I don't feel like closing this thread just yet, but if the disussion stays as hostile as it was until three posts ago, I won't hesitate and put one of these gold coloured locks on the door.

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