the pope turns "green". what do you think?

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: The Pope has asked pardon for the sins of the Church, what else do you want? Would it be enough to burn 100 priests? Otr maybe a similar number  of 5,000 confirmed deaths in 350 years?   I'm tired of this fanatical atheists who are not worst than the Fundamentalists, they made their own atheist Cruzade with an almost religious organization, the real atheist (not the poser who wants to look smarter than he is) doesn't spend all day attacking those who believe, they just live honesty in their disbelieve.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 03 2008 at 13:01

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:   Nobody can force you to be a Catholic, that's a choice you must make.   Iván

Not like the good ole days of the inquisitions.




Edited by Slartibartfast - April 03 2008 at 12:27

 

cuncuna wrote: Le me put it in concrete terms: catholic church is against sex before marriage.   Most Christian religions are, as a fact most religions are.   Catholic church is also against child abuse.   Aby decent person is....Do you believe they are wrong?   Catholic church seems to be against other religions as well (that catholic boss recently talked about how there was no salvation outside catholic church,   FALSE, already explained and quoted the position of the Church:   The "Dogmatic Constitution on the Church - Lumen Gentium" (1964) is one of many documents to come out of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council (often referred to as "Vatican II"). The Council was held in Rome between 1962 and 1965. Lumen Gentium" contains in its Chapter 1 an essay on "The Mystery of the church." Sections 14 to 16 describe the potential for salvation of: Followers of the Catholic Church, Members of other Christian denominations, and Believers of non-Christian religions. 5   5. The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."   http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm   Few religions are so tolerant, but you insist in your point.   I know about this not because I care, but because an homosexual friend told me about this and some strong homophobic statements comming in the same speech).   Again Catholic Church has nothing against the homosexual person, that's absurd, again I posted the position of the Church, but you insist.    Catholic church is against a lot of things, but nothing stops.   There's free will   Priests keeps having sex (hell, I know one that has a whole familiy),   Yes of course, they are acting against the orders of the Church, but that's why there's free will.   priests have being constantly acused of child abuse.   You have said it right ACCUSED, which doesn't mean guilty, specially in USA where people accuse to reach a millionare settlement, There are rapist ptriests, Rabis, Reverends, fathers, grandfathers etc, you don't judge an institurion for the wrong doers.   I'm not saying that those two things belong to the same cathegory. Sex is sex and can only be bad if it is bad (...) and if sex is bad then you'll probably won't ave sex again so problem solved. Child abuse is horrible, but catholic church protects and hides priests found guilty of child abuse.   The Church has accepted a few cases, but remember, the Vatican HAS to protect the priests, being than lñess than 1% of the accused are remotely guilty, but the preess crucifies them as soon as they are accused, but Michael Jackson and OJ Simpson were declared innocent.   As for other religions, they will just exist on their own right, even if catholic church likes it or not. A religion based on love that declares its rejection to a whole bunch of human beings just because of their sexual choice sounds kind of oximoronic...   The Catholic Church doesn't reject the homosexual, rejects homosexuality, I don't agree with that, but it's part of the belief, you take it or not.   [quote]The Catholic Church opposes gay marriage and the social acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex relationships, but teaches that homosexual persons deserve respect, justice and pastoral care.[/quote]   Any person that talks abut homophobia simply doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, as a fact the homosexual acts have been considered as a SIN  AGAINST CHASTITY, exactly as heterosexual sex outside marriage.   ¿and now they are against contamination?. Catholic church makes it difficult for me to know if they are against things for good or for bad reasons, but I'm certain of this: catholic church won't invest a cent into actual environmental protection.   For God's sake, your fanatic anti-Catholicism is so sick that you can't get when something is positive or negative, obnly because the Church does it?????????????    I have proved you are wrong again, that the Vatican has invested millions of Euros in providing clean energy to the country and in a couple of years they will be able to sell this clean energy to Italy.   Are you so stubborn and fanatical to be against this because the Catholic Church does it?   Would you rather a secular nuclear plant than a Catholic Solar Energy plant?   PLEASE!!!!!   Iván

cuncuna wrote: The T wrote: StyLaZyn wrote: Don't you have some Dream Theater to listen to? No... I have a planet to save.... And I think I'll do it with both the help of the Pope and Dream Theater... Cuncuna, your view of the future, though maybe accurate, is kind of gloomy, dark, and pesimistic. I guess some optimism in these matters helps more... maybe. Le me put it in concrete terms: catholic church is against sex before marriage. Catholic church is also against child abuse. Catholic church seems to be against other religions as well (that catholic boss recently talked about how there was no salvation outside catholic church, I know about this not because I care, but because an homosexual friend told me about this and some strong homophobic statements comming in the same speech). Catholic church is against a lot of things, but nothing stops. Priests keeps having sex (hell, I know one that has a whole familiy), priests have being constantly acused of child abuse. I'm not saying that those two things belong to the same cathegory. Sex is sex and can only be bad if it is bad (...) and if sex is bad then you'll probably won't ave sex again so problem solved. Child abuse is horrible, but catholic church protects and hides priests found guilty of child abuse. As for other religions, they will just exist on their own right, even if catholic church likes it or not. A religion based on love that declares its rejection to a whole bunch of human beings just because of their sexual choice sounds kind of oximoronic... ¿and now they are against contamination?. Catholic church makes it difficult for me to know if they are against things for good or for bad reasons, but I'm certain of this: catholic church won't invest a cent into actual environmental protection.

I was or am catholic being 14, but cause school's fault I really can't accept many catholic terms, and maybe religious terms to live..
I agree with some parts that the catholic church is getting quite strict and taking to much control of our (catholic) lives.

Let it Be!

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: BTW: For those who said this were just words, here are some facts:   The Vatican is in the way of not using a single KW of energy that doesn't come from clean source, all the electricity of the country is starting to come from a gigantic solar panel (the size of a football field) already built and this panels will be installed in every roof,   In a few years they will be able to sell the superavit of energy to Rome, enough to cover a significant percentage of the needs of Rome.   So if anybody believes this is wrong or that the Pope spoke nonsesnses, well, here are some solid arguments.   Iván

Of course, there's always the comment that anyone who claims to understand the unknowable, i.e. God (according to the early Hebrews , I think it's in the Old Testament), or even worse to determine the exact meaning should be considered fair game for criticism. On the other hand, one of many sides loves to claim that the others are cafeteria christians who pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe in & follow. If you read A J Jacobs "the  Year of Living Biblically", you may come to see that all christians, from all sects; and also just about any other religion or theist beliefs, all have different views on what is considered the Orthodox path.
Here's an Emo Philips joke to over-emphasize the minisculinity of religious prejudicial righteousness :
"

The Wisdom Of Emo Phillips

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. -- Emo Phillips"

rhinn wrote: In this day and age with knowledge of all we know, why do we still believe in religion?

rhinn wrote: In this day and age with knowledge of all we know, why do we still believe in religion?   If you are so proud of all your knowledhge...Can you prove me God doesn't exist?   Don't you believe that by this "day and age and with all  our knowledge", If God didn't existed you would be able to prove it?   I read earlier today that muslims have surpassed catholics alive on our little rock, and i wondered who cares? There is no proof of god, and there is no proof there is no god......where are we actually?   God was isn't and won't be a matter, of prove, it's a matter of FAITH, and there is the merit, we don't pray to a mathematixcal equation or the escond law of physics, becauser WE KNOW they exist, there's no merit inplacing your faith on something you can prove that exists.   The merit is placing your faith in something, despite the lack of "scientific" evidence.   Bellieving in a fact is not believing, it's using only your senses (as any animal) believing in God is a prove of advanced brain development, because you believe despite you can't measure or weight.   Iván

1800iareyay wrote: StyLaZyn wrote: Having 15 plus years of Roman Catholic teaching (parochial school and mass 2-3 times a week), I was always taught that Hell is in fact not a place where souls are tormented by fire, but a state of the soul that suffers being alone for eternity. Hell was described as the absence of God.     Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... so it's Wal-Mart?

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: cuncuna wrote: .  According to the article (and some more), the "hell doesn't exist" statement is from 1999. So my memory doesn't suck that much (a memory from almost 10 years back, and from something I don't particulary care and I ust heard on TV while probably electrocuting myself with some house made Van der Graaf Generator). Hurray me...   Sorry Cuncuna, the magazine is talking BS, they misunderstood what John Paull II said in 1999:   JOHN PAUL II GENERAL AUDIENCE Wednesday 28 July 1999     Dear Brothers and Sisters, 1. God is the infinitely good and merciful Father. But man, called to respond to him freely,  can unfortunately choose to reject his love and forgiveness once and for all, thus separating himself for ever from joyful communion with him. It is precisely this tragic situation that Christian doctrine explains when it speaks of eternal damnation or hell.  It is not a punishment imposed externally by God but a development of premises already set by people in this life. The very dimension of unhappiness which this obscure condition brings can in a certain way be sensed in the light of some of the terrible experiences we have suffered which, as is commonly said, make life “hell”. In a theological sense however, hell is something else: it is the ultimate consequence of sin itself, which turns against the person who committed it. It is the state of those who definitively reject the Father’s mercy, even at the last moment of their life. ...   The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy. This is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes the truths of faith on this subject: “To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called ‘hell’” (n. 1033).   http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/1999/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_28071999_en.html    What John Paul II explained is not that hell is a place with fire, tortures and a guy in red pijamas, he explained that the nature of hell is remaining self excluded for eternity from God.   John Paul II also said that hell is not a punishment imposed by God, but a self-decided fate.   But no Pope has ever said hell doesn't exist, magazines write nonsense without verification, this is how sects and cults are created, people misundserstand a message and considers it his truth.   Iván

Thanks. As I previously said, I heard it back then in the TV news, so I stand corrected.