the pope turns "green". what do you think?

Big Generator = 3/5 stars

cuncuna wrote: .  According to the article (and some more), the "hell doesn't exist" statement is from 1999. So my memory doesn't suck that much (a memory from almost 10 years back, and from something I don't particulary care and I ust heard on TV while probably electrocuting myself with some house made Van der Graaf Generator). Hurray me...

StyLaZyn wrote: The T wrote: ...But the church (the big one) should stop even condemning homosexuals, as it creates a mental image in some followeres that they are, after all, second-class persons....     Awesome! I am a believer that homosexuality is not a choice in most cases. Religion/Church can't change what a person is when they are born. And they attempt to strip away any true happiness that person might find with another human being which happens to be of the same sex. That is a sin, to me, and committed by a Church that makes up sins as they see fit. It is hypocritical in my eyes.

Salvo_ wrote:   You're just being subjected to extremely poor journalism, which is common on religious matters or really anything that has a degree of subtlety. The media is kind of retarded.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:   What John Paul II explained is not that hell is a place with fire, tortures and a guy in red pijamas, he explained that the nature of hell is remaining self excluded for eternity from God.   John Paul II also said that hell is not a punishment imposed by God, but a self-decided fate.   But no Pope has ever said hell doesn't exist, magazines write nonsense without verification, this is how sects and cults are created, people misundserstand a message and considers it his truth.   Iván

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: cuncuna wrote: .  According to the article (and some more), the "hell doesn't exist" statement is from 1999. So my memory doesn't suck that much (a memory from almost 10 years back, and from something I don't particulary care and I ust heard on TV while probably electrocuting myself with some house made Van der Graaf Generator). Hurray me...   Sorry Cuncuna, the magazine is talking BS, they misunderstood what John Paull II said in 1999:   JOHN PAUL II GENERAL AUDIENCE Wednesday 28 July 1999     Dear Brothers and Sisters, 1. God is the infinitely good and merciful Father. But man, called to respond to him freely,  can unfortunately choose to reject his love and forgiveness once and for all, thus separating himself for ever from joyful communion with him. It is precisely this tragic situation that Christian doctrine explains when it speaks of eternal damnation or hell.  It is not a punishment imposed externally by God but a development of premises already set by people in this life. The very dimension of unhappiness which this obscure condition brings can in a certain way be sensed in the light of some of the terrible experiences we have suffered which, as is commonly said, make life “hell”. In a theological sense however, hell is something else: it is the ultimate consequence of sin itself, which turns against the person who committed it. It is the state of those who definitively reject the Father’s mercy, even at the last moment of their life. ...   The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy. This is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes the truths of faith on this subject: “To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called ‘hell’” (n. 1033).   http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/1999/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_28071999_en.html    What John Paul II explained is not that hell is a place with fire, tortures and a guy in red pijamas, he explained that the nature of hell is remaining self excluded for eternity from God.   John Paul II also said that hell is not a punishment imposed by God, but a self-decided fate.   But no Pope has ever said hell doesn't exist, magazines write nonsense without verification, this is how sects and cults are created, people misundserstand a message and considers it his truth.   Iván

Thanks. As I previously said, I heard it back then in the TV news, so I stand corrected.

1800iareyay wrote: StyLaZyn wrote: Having 15 plus years of Roman Catholic teaching (parochial school and mass 2-3 times a week), I was always taught that Hell is in fact not a place where souls are tormented by fire, but a state of the soul that suffers being alone for eternity. Hell was described as the absence of God.     Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... so it's Wal-Mart?

rhinn wrote: In this day and age with knowledge of all we know, why do we still believe in religion?   If you are so proud of all your knowledhge...Can you prove me God doesn't exist?   Don't you believe that by this "day and age and with all  our knowledge", If God didn't existed you would be able to prove it?   I read earlier today that muslims have surpassed catholics alive on our little rock, and i wondered who cares? There is no proof of god, and there is no proof there is no god......where are we actually?   God was isn't and won't be a matter, of prove, it's a matter of FAITH, and there is the merit, we don't pray to a mathematixcal equation or the escond law of physics, becauser WE KNOW they exist, there's no merit inplacing your faith on something you can prove that exists.   The merit is placing your faith in something, despite the lack of "scientific" evidence.   Bellieving in a fact is not believing, it's using only your senses (as any animal) believing in God is a prove of advanced brain development, because you believe despite you can't measure or weight.   Iván

rhinn wrote: In this day and age with knowledge of all we know, why do we still believe in religion?

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: BTW: For those who said this were just words, here are some facts:   The Vatican is in the way of not using a single KW of energy that doesn't come from clean source, all the electricity of the country is starting to come from a gigantic solar panel (the size of a football field) already built and this panels will be installed in every roof,   In a few years they will be able to sell the superavit of energy to Rome, enough to cover a significant percentage of the needs of Rome.   So if anybody believes this is wrong or that the Pope spoke nonsesnses, well, here are some solid arguments.   Iván

Of course, there's always the comment that anyone who claims to understand the unknowable, i.e. God (according to the early Hebrews , I think it's in the Old Testament), or even worse to determine the exact meaning should be considered fair game for criticism. On the other hand, one of many sides loves to claim that the others are cafeteria christians who pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe in & follow. If you read A J Jacobs "the  Year of Living Biblically", you may come to see that all christians, from all sects; and also just about any other religion or theist beliefs, all have different views on what is considered the Orthodox path.
Here's an Emo Philips joke to over-emphasize the minisculinity of religious prejudicial righteousness :
"

The Wisdom Of Emo Phillips

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. -- Emo Phillips"