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The T ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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Isn't the position of the church that homosexuality is an aberration, a sin, and that homosexuals are either sick or perverted, but never normal people? I just can't believe someone agrees with that on this day and age. Well, there are still people who believe Adam and Eve were the first people on earth....Talk about double standard... Poor Jesus must be having nightmares seeing what kind of "solidarity" was created in His name....
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Raff ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
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Unfortunately Teo is right, though the wording used by the Church these days is a bit more nuanced than 'aberration' or 'sick and perverted'. If my memory serves me right, they talk about a 'grievous moral disorder'. However, as much as I profoundly dislike the continuing interference of the Catholic Church in matters of Italian politics, I have to say that such ideas on homosexuals are shared by people who are not Catholic, or even religious for that matter. |
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Jim Garten ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
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Admin Note:
So far, this thread is proceeding well, but let's try to keep things civil, yes? Impassioned debate is fine, so long as it doesn't descend into name calling & abuse. |
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![]() Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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Salvo_ ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 27 2008 Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Sorry, the swearing was a bit much, although I never directly insulted anyone, unlike The T....But point taken. Edited for civility.
Please don't play the moral high ground card on me; it's completely uncalled for. I haven't done it at all in this thread, and acting self-righteous helps nobody. You can think it, but saying it is not condusive to discussion at all. Implying that believing one of the core beliefs of Christianity makes you ignorant and stupid is also completely unnecessary. Yes, Genesis is not literal, but some aspects of it must be true or the whole thing doesn't work. Please choose your words more carefully in the future.
Anyway, no, the Church does not believe that homosexuals are monsters. You're thinking more of the Westboro Baptist Church idiots, who are a fringe group by any standard and actually Protestants. |
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Passionist ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 14 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 1119 |
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I can't say I agree here. up to 20% of my country's carbon dioxide emissions come from individual cars in the traffic, and there is a lot of pollution to automobile industry and gasoline refineries. Of course I know, that it's the larger infrastructure that creates most of the world's pollution at the moment, but how is one aspect here bigger than other. Also referring to recycling carbage and still going around the world for vacations is considered hypocritical. Though in my opinion it's better you recycle them even if you do a lot worse things because every 1% off of the piles we stock on nature at the moment is only for the good. And you can't really expect everyone to cut off the big portions of their lives just like that. It takes time. But recycling is a great way to start it, so is saving energy the way you possibly can. There are so many things you can do, and it's not up to you to put a halt to the oiling industry, it's up to everyone, as is recycling. Then to the last post on this thread... Baptist idiots? Does that really mean people here should come around and understand catholics, but the baptists are idiots? I personally think everyone who's afriad of different sexualities is an idiot to a certain point. That, or afraid of their own sexuality, if that's the case here. |
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Salvo_ ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 27 2008 Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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Everything you do pollutes to some extent. I don't think you should interpret that as a mandate to do the most minimum amount of driving possible; it's about bringing more of a balance to our activities. I don't think the occasional vacation is that big a deal, and the Pope himself obviously has to travel around to visit places to give speeches and whatnot like any other major world figure.
I was not referring to Baptists in general as stupid. I was talking about these people, who are certifiably insane. But there's only about 50 of them, it's just that they're very loud. I guess you haven't heard about them so much in Finland, but they had significant media attention over here for a while when they first started protesting soldiers' funerals (they've been forced to stop that because of a successful lawsuit), and people still sometimes bring them up on the internet. Edited by Salvo_ - March 14 2008 at 06:50 |
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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By the way, did I mention that Jim Garten is an empty headed animal food tough wiper? ![]() |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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StyLaZyn ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
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Actually, if I were on to believe in a salvation of the soul, it seems quite clear that one must be saved from within, meaning in one's character/mind. In this way, man must save himself from the evils against his brother. No person can do this for him. He must change his ways and his attitudes. There is no mystery on how this is accomplished. It starts with abandoning selfishness. A person does not need religion to realize this.
The Gnostic Gospels are a whole other topic, but quickly, they were deemed heretical due to the re-interpreted ideals of one person only...Paul.
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Jim Garten ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
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Ahem - if you're not careful, I shall use my Admin powers to wave my private parts at your Aunty! Oooo-eerr - it's the boss: ![]() Get this discussion back on thread - it's supposed to be about religion! And stop grovelling! |
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![]() Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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GoldenSpiral ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 27 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3839 |
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Simultaneous religion and environmental discussion! This thread delivers!
Perhaps this topic can tie the two together again: I've seen it discussed before, and it's kind of interesting...
Do you think that because of the Christian idea of Heaven and Rapture (i.e. the notion that someday soon we'll all be instantly whisked off to a better place than earth), western civilization has cared less about the environment? That is to say, since the christians, who have held power throughout western history and through the industrial revolution, will be all raptured away to heaven, leaving the earth to satan and his slaves, western people haven't been good stewards of the earth?
That sentence is all kinds of comma-spliced, but I think you get the point...
I don't necessarily agree, but it's an interesting point.
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jimmy_row ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: July 11 2007 Location: Hibernation Status: Offline Points: 2601 |
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^ it IS an interesting point; actually my family is probably sick of hearing it from me
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Signature Writers Guild on strike
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Salvo was not talking about the Baptists in general, who are a very respectable religion, he was talking about the Westboro Baptist Church, AND NO THEY ARE NOT IDIOTS, THEY ARE THE WORST KIND OF BIGOTS YOU CAN FIND, AN IDIOT IS NOT GUILTY BECAUSE OF HIS/HER LACK OF INTELLIGENCE, BUT A NORMAL PERSON WHO HAS THIS IN HIS PAGE AS THEIR BANNER, IS WORST THAN AN IDIOT:
I ask the pardon of the members for this symbolls and messages, I'm not supporting them, just quoting part of their website to prove what kind of people they are.
The Westboro Baptist Church is an anti Homosexual and Anti USA cult (No Church can be so radical), no Church has the right to step over the flag of any country.
Hate is their ideology, this are sites recommended by them, all trash, God doesn't hate, BIGOTS HATE.:
The Catholic Church keeps an anti-HOMOSEXUALITY policy, but this idiot called Fred Phelps from Topeka Kansas hates Homosexuals, he would kill them if he could.
This is the position of the Catholic Church:
I don't agree with the position of the Church, but is a moderate one, the CC is against any form of intercourse not oriented towards procreation, this includes homosexuality, sex outside the marriage, and artificial methods to prevent conception; but the Catholic Church doesnt hate homosexuals.
So I agree with Salvo but not with the adjective, is too soft for this kind of people who believe God is hate.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 14 2008 at 13:49 |
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The T ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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Edited by The T - March 14 2008 at 15:19 |
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StyLaZyn ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
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Awesome! I am a believer that homosexuality is not a choice in most cases. Religion/Church can't change what a person is when they are born. And they attempt to strip away any true happiness that person might find with another human being which happens to be of the same sex. That is a sin, to me, and committed by a Church that makes up sins as they see fit. It is hypocritical in my eyes.
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Salvo_ ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: February 27 2008 Status: Offline Points: 110 |
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T, I read your shock as implying that you can't believe someone would be so dumb/ignorant, but if that's not what you meant, then I accept it as a miscommunication.
cuncuna, I'm still waiting for you to show me where a Pope said Hell does not exist.
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cuncuna ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 4318 |
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I can't travel back in time to show you a specific segment of the news of my country. Truth is, I didn't paid much attention to it back then either, but I do remember it since it was some sort of ¿what? moment for me. As much as the new one saying "no, no, it does exist". Don't worry, I'll find it for you. |
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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cuncuna ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 4318 |
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In fact:
http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/346354/0/papa/benedicto/infierno/ You'll need an online translation, but there you have it: "Pope Benedict (number) contradicts Juan Pablo II (I don't know if John Paul II is the right translation) and says hell do exist". And some more stuff about it that will probably come out as a Jonh anderson lyric from the online translation. You are welcome. According to the article (and some more), the "hell doesn't exist" statement is from 1999. So my memory doesn't suck that much (a memory from almost 10 years back, and from something I don't particulary care and I ust heard on TV while probably electrocuting myself with some house made Van der Graaf Generator). Hurray me... Edited by cuncuna - March 17 2008 at 14:33 |
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
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the pope turns green?... better than the Dark Side I guess.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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cuncuna ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 4318 |
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¿How exactly can one do that anyway?. I just can turn right or left...
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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cuncuna ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 4318 |
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Is it ok if I say "¡¡¡YOU ARE THE 'BIG GENERATOR' OF HUMANITY!!!" to someone?... I mean, it is not obscene or anything, but sure it'll hurt... |
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¡Beware of the Bee!
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