the pope turns "green". what do you think?

Salvo_ wrote: Their position on homosexuality. Yeah, I wasn't very clear on that, but I thought you could follow my direct matching up of your points down in a row. I am not going to argue it with you or anyone else. But I still like you BaldJean and BaldFriede.

Admin Note:

So far, this thread is proceeding well, but let's try to keep things civil, yes? Impassioned debate is fine, so long as it doesn't descend into name calling & abuse.

Salvo_ wrote: Passionist wrote: And as far as I know, some sins are not bigger than others, right? Yes, but the document was referring to excessive pollution and whatnot, which was always wrong, just not clearly articulated by the Church. So just driving a car isn't a sin. You can't "declare" new sins unless it would be by adding new disciplinary regulations.

I can't say I agree here. up to 20% of my country's carbon dioxide emissions come from individual cars in the traffic, and there is a lot of pollution to automobile industry and gasoline refineries. Of course I know, that it's the larger infrastructure that creates most of the world's pollution at the moment, but how is one aspect here bigger than other.

Also referring to recycling carbage and still going around the world for vacations is considered hypocritical. Though in my opinion it's better you recycle them even if you do a lot worse things because every 1% off of the piles we stock on nature at the moment is only for the good. And you can't really expect everyone to cut off the big portions of their lives just like that. It takes time. But recycling is a great way to start it, so is saving energy the way you possibly can. There are so many things you can do, and it's not up to you to put a halt to the oiling industry, it's up to everyone, as is recycling.

Then to the last post on this thread... Baptist idiots? Does that really mean people here should come around and understand catholics, but the baptists are idiots? I personally think everyone who's afriad of different sexualities is an idiot to a certain point. That, or afraid of their own sexuality, if that's the case here.

Jim Garten wrote: Admin Note: So far, this thread is proceeding well, but let's try to keep things civil, yes? Impassioned debate is fine, so long as it doesn't descend into name calling & abuse.

By the way, did I mention that Jim Garten is an empty headed animal food tough wiper?

Slartibartfast wrote: By the way, did I mention that Jim Garten is an empty headed animal food tough wiper?

Ahem - if you're not careful, I shall use my Admin powers to wave my private parts at your Aunty!

Oooo-eerr - it's the boss:



Get this discussion back on thread - it's supposed to be about religion!

And stop grovelling!

^ it IS an interesting point; actually my family is probably sick of hearing it from me  I'm not sure it applies to them though...They're Christians and don't feel they'll be saved before the environmental problem gets out of control...they don't even seem to think it is or will ever be a problem.  I think the main places where most people gain their impression of issues like this are noticeably biased against it, and have a wonderful way of making environmentalists and "greens" look like wacky leftists (which they are to an extent), the more extreme ones keep conservative Christians from taking the issue seriously.  But as for the evangelists and "hardcore" protestants, I can support GS's point, these folks seriously think that messing up the planet is fine-and-dandy because soon, it will be home exclusively to atheists, gays, rock musicians, and the French.

Edited by jimmy_row - March 14 2008 at 12:34

Salvo_ wrote: Sorry, the swearing was a bit much, although I never directly insulted anyone, unlike The T....Where is my direct insult??? But point taken. Edited for civility. The T wrote: Salvo_ wrote: Their position on homosexuality. Yeah, I wasn't very clear on that, but I thought you could follow my direct matching up of your points down in a row. I am not going to argue it with you or anyone else. But I still like you BaldJean and BaldFriede.    Isn't the position of the church that homosexuality is an aberration, a sin, and that homosexuals are either sick or perverted, but never normal people? I just can't believe someone agrees with that on this day and age. Well, there are still people who believe Adam and Eve were the first people on earth....Talk about double standard... Poor Jesus must be having nightmares seeing what kind of "solidarity" was created in His name....  Please don't play the moral high ground card on me; it's completely uncalled for. I'm not playing any moral high ground card or any card on you. You just said you agree with the church about homosexuals, I was baffled as the church position on homosexuality is hardly the most open one. I haven't done it at all in this thread, and acting self-righteous helps nobody. If you got that idea, I'm sorry. I just can't agree with someone agreeing on mass-segrebation. You can think it, but saying it is not condusive to discussion at all. Implying that believing one of the core beliefs of Christianity makes you ignorant and stupid is also completely unnecessary. You said it: implying. And I'm not even implying, even though I will recognize that I really think it's lack of education or just indoctrination what in most cases may lead people away from more scientific views of the world and towards Creational theories... That's my view. Yes, Genesis is not literal, but some aspects of it must be true or the whole thing doesn't work. Please choose your words more carefully in the future. I think you were too careful, on the other hand, not explaining what you really meant by "I agree with their position on homosexuality". Those words are also open to interpretation. Let's all be careful in the future, ok?   Anyway, no, the Church does not believe that homosexuals are monsters. You're thinking more of the Westboro Baptist Church idiots, who are a fringe group by any standard and actually Protestants. Yes, that church is full of the biggest idiots on this earth, people carrying "god hates fags" or "thank god for aids" banners... I agree 100%. But the church (the big one) should stop even condemning homosexuals, as it creates a mental image in some followeres that they are, after all, second-class persons....   admin: the word "fag" is used here as a direct citation and an example of one of the atrocities fanatism can create. I hope you understand why is being used here.

Edited by The T - March 14 2008 at 15:19

T, I read your shock as implying that you can't believe someone would be so dumb/ignorant, but if that's not what you meant, then I accept it as a miscommunication.

In fact:

http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/346354/0/papa/benedicto/infierno/

You'll need an online translation, but there you have it: "Pope Benedict (number) contradicts Juan Pablo II (I don't know if John Paul II is the right translation) and says hell do exist". And some more stuff about it that will probably come out as a Jonh anderson lyric from the online translation. You are welcome.

According to the article (and some more), the "hell doesn't exist" statement is from 1999. So my memory doesn't suck that much (a memory from almost 10 years back, and from something I don't particulary care and I ust heard on TV while probably electrocuting myself with some house made Van der Graaf Generator). Hurray me...


Edited by cuncuna - March 17 2008 at 14:33

¿How exactly can one do that anyway?. I just can turn right or left...