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Easy Money 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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 Posted: February 20 2008 at 02:13 |
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Hey MHDTV, if you are still around, I think your heart is in the right place but most people joined this site because they like King Crimson or Yes or Mars Volta or Magma ... you get the point.
If you stick around I think you will find there are a lot of people on here who like hip-hop, and since progressive rock brought them here in the first place they are likely to appreciate the most progressive artists of the hip-hop genre, but expecting everyone who likes progressive rock to appreciate hip-hop is not realistic.
As far as new progressive rock goes, I'm not real impressed either, but I keep looking because if there is something great out there I don't want to miss out on it.
Anyway, keep digging Public Enemy. "Elvis was a hero to most but he never meant s**t to me"
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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keiser willhelm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1697
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 02:23 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 02:26 |
 Atavachron wrote:
The T wrote:
- Eminem is extremely talented..... And I'm actually Zappa returned from the death....
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 hey it's not my fault the man is gifted
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As said before, when you're Frank Zappa like I am, when you have returned from the grave against all odds, you can even enjoy the music of Eminem.... I fear it will drive me back to the tomb, though... 
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 04:03 |
MHDTV wrote:
1. Dream Theater-I don't think they're really horrendous, but I've never heard anything that was so totally cliched.
2. Radiohead-Certainly not crap, I love them, but they haven't made an original record since Ok Computer. Taking (Albeit much better) a bunch of electronic concepts from Warp Records and adding a little melodic touch doesn't make you original.
3. Virtually all of Post-Rock- Does anybody really disagree with me here?
4. Symphony X-Same as DT.
There are 4. I can come up with a hell of a lot more if you really want... |
I like a lot of the alternative/experimental (and old school) hip-hop acts, and I hate all of those bands you mention except Radiohead. Flower Kings, Dream Theater and Symphony X is the mainstream of modern prog. Just like with modern hip hop you've got to dig deeper than prog's equivalents to Eminem, 50 Cent or P. Diddy (as in most the most popular/selling within a genre) to find innovaton. This really makes me think you haven't got a clue.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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reality
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 318
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 11:19 |
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Actually, one of the founding fathers of Hip Hop is Kraftwerk (and the Krautrock scene). Yes the same scene that compelled you to include Post Rock as Prog (which it is not). You should hear Chuck D. talk about the connection and the inspiration of the Krautrock scene on early Hip Hop. The other major influence is Jazz and country music. The first major Rap artist was Bob Dylan, though like I said Rap was popular in country music, Jazz and Irish and Scottish folk music way before him. Rap (the sub-genre of Hip Hop) is not limited to Gangsta Rap, and is very broad and innovative. Much of the production techniques that Prog records now use come from Rap/Hip Hop records. Modern music production owes its life to the efforts of Hip Hop (production is half of he artistry for a fan of Hip Hop). And Hip Hop owes its life to Krautrock. I love old school Hip Hop, and it a lot more connected to Prog than a lot of genres on this site.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 11:29 |
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This is one of those issues that probably has no definitive answer, but I would say the first bit of recorded "Rap" that sounds like what we call Rap today was by jazz saxophonist Louis Jordon quite a few years ahead of Dylan.
Rhythmic word play in general goes back centuries in many cultures.
On a more humorous note I have a friend who thinks Blondie invented rap.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 11:53 |
MHDTV wrote:
Floydian42 wrote:
MHDTV wrote:
Trademark wrote:
The question has nothing to do with good or bad. It had to do with what was (or is) Stale, Recycled Crap, and that is quite easy to determine through careful analysis but apparently you have no examples so...
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Ok...
1. Dream Theater-I don't think they're really horrendous, but I've never heard anything that was so totally cliched.
2. Radiohead-Certainly not crap, I love them, but they haven't made an original record since Ok Computer. Taking (Albeit much better) a bunch of electronic concepts from Warp Records and adding a little melodic touch doesn't make you original.
3. Virtually all of Post-Rock- Does anybody really disagree with me here?
4. Symphony X-Same as DT.
There are 4. I can come up with a hell of a lot more if you really want... |
Woahwoahwoahwoahwoah, umm... let's take for example Pyramid Song. How is that not innovative? Idioteque? That song was like... radically different from anything else they've ever done and was completely unique. And taking electronic music is one thing, using in a completely new fashion and making it works nearly flawlessly... thats pretty original right there. And let's break away from mass electronic stuffs, shall we? How about In Rainbows? That wasn't electronic at all... and yet... it was a completely new reinvention of themselves in a way that maintained there integrity and delivered something entirely different then anything else in the market. Radiohead pretty much is the single modern band that defines originality. They aren't my favorite, but they sure as hell are original. |
Warp Records. Just listen to Aphex Twin, Boards Of Canada, etc. |
I listen to both and I've never heard them make anything like The National Anthem or How to Disappear Completely there's a difference between taking an influence and ripping off they're more doing a rock/electronic fusion or should I say jazz fusion's just jazz that's completely and unoriginally ripping off rock
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 12:01 |
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SO LET'S TALK HIP HOP people
The only rapper I consistently listen to is Saul Williams though I somewhat like Outkast (even if they are a tad cliche in the genre)
any recommendations? I've been meaning to try Public Enemy for a little while
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keiser willhelm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1697
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 12:09 |
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i still recommend eminem. honestly dont know why i like it... its violent, distasteful, and very very angry but he has a style about him that sets him far apart from the rest of the pack and a lyrical content that apart from being discomforting is much different than the swarming masses of ring tone rappers and i appreciate that. i guess i like angry rap... Jedi Mind tricks anyone?
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 12:23 |
heyitsthatguy wrote:
SO LET'S TALK HIP HOP peopleThe only rapper I consistently listen to is Saul Williams though I somewhat like Outkast (even if they are a tad cliche in the genre)any recommendations? I've been meaning to try Public Enemy for a little while
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Check out Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back, to use a tired old cliche "it's the Sgt Peppers of rap" only more agressive.
Its one of the few albums in any genre that I never get tired of.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 13:25 |
Easy Money wrote:
heyitsthatguy wrote:
SO LET'S TALK HIP HOP peopleThe only rapper I consistently listen to is Saul Williams though I somewhat like Outkast (even if they are a tad cliche in the genre)any recommendations? I've been meaning to try Public Enemy for a little while
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Check out Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back, to use a tired old cliche "it's the Sgt Peppers of rap" only more agressive.
Its one of the few albums in any genre that I never get tired of. |
I own this album but I really couldn't find anything so interesting about it. To better check the beginning of this genre, check Eric&Rakim's album, it has a couple songs with great groove and rhythm... Though I guess they also founded the "I have lots of money"-style that I dislike in rap music....
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everyone
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 09 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 159
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 13:36 |
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Boogie Down Productions' first album is great if you can handle the poor production. Eric B and Rakim's Paid in Full is classic. The Greatest Entertainer by Grandmaster Flash is cool. Paul's Boutique by the Beastie Boys in recommended. I have too many to list that have great grooves.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10617
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 13:47 |
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Yeah I would say Eric B and Rakim are my second favorite to Public Enemy.
I also really like De La Soul's Three Feet High and Rising, very creative and no macho stuff if you don't like that sort of thing.
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Help the victims of the russian invasion:
http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 9008
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 17:44 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Now your target is Post Rock, wish you luck, because Post Rockers havemn't started to tal yet.
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I'm not even going to try talking about that. After reading all his posts on this thread I won't even bother to convince him otherwise. Now to Hip-hop Keeping the same late 80's / early 90's vibe, Check out A Tribe Called Quest's The Low End Theory and Midnight Marauders. Both albums are highly recommended. Great lyrics, flow and groove.
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 21:11 |
Check out anything MF Doom or Madlib related, especially Quasimoto and Madvillainy. Awesome stuff. Edan is also awesome, psychedelic rap.
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MHDTV
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 144
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 21:47 |
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Massive Attack is great as well. MF Doom's solo work never really seemed all that great to me.
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Freak yo' swerve
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 21:49 |
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Mezzanine is by Massive Attack right? I should keep an eye out for that one as well
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Cylli Kat
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 29 2007
Location: The Othersphere
Status: Offline
Points: 97
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 18:50 |
I will be the first to admit that
I'm closed minded on this issue.
Please don’t try to sway me about
the “merits” of rap/hip-hop,
I am beyond being able to even give
this a fair hearing…
I hate that rap is being used to
convince those in the lowest socioeconomic groups that they too can be
"gangsta n*gg*s", with all of the bling and ho's and money and dope
that they'd ever want. The reality is that even the “big” (c)rap stars (with
perhaps the exception of Diddy and Jay-Z), are STILL in the lower income
bracket, (c)rappin' about what they WISHED were true about their real lives.
I hate that (c)rap is leading so
many down a path to violence, drug abuse, and the devaluation of human life,
the end of which will most likely be a violent death for those who believe in
and try to live this "urban fairy tale". Sad indeed... To quote Sinajuavi from
http://www.topix.net/forum/afam/TN6ODO7CNDDNQNMSA/p3
"It is the consciousness
generally which has to change. If the youth are idolizing people who glorify
misogyny and violence, then that's what will sell, and corporations will
encourage it. It's a circular thing...people demand what they want, and
corporations encourage them to want negative stuff..."
I hate how the (c)rappers are
whining about the "negative stereotypes" surrounding their
"craft".
What a joke!!! Tell me, what was the
last socially uplifting hip-hop/rap song you've heard? Didja ever notice that
you never hear the "rap" about going to church, helping the poor,
feeding the hungry, caring about human rights, eating your vegetables, doing
the right thing even when it may hurt, etc.??? Why not?!?!? Because (C)rap
"music" is a fraud, that makes money for all the wrong people and
encourages all the wrong behaviors, and is creating more urban blight than it
has ever addressed or contributed to helping. I
HATE (C)RAP/HIP-HOP AND THE BOGUS LIFESTYLE THAT IT SUPPOSEDLY
REPRESENTS!!!
I hate that
the (c)rappers and hip-hoppers are bemoaning the "stereotypes' they've
perpetuated and brought on themselves. Be real; they've EARNED all of the
negative stereotypes!!!
Sorry about
my level of vitriol, but I absolutely detest this garbage and all that it
represents. (BTW: this post was an edit of another series of posts that I contributed to another site.)
Edited by Cylli Kat - February 22 2008 at 18:54
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[Insert Clever Phrase Here]
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MHDTV
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 144
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 18:54 |
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There are tons of socially uplifting Rap songs. Just like there are tons of misogynistic Rock and Blues songs. Misogyny isn't limited by genre. Rap may have earned a lot of it's negative stereotypes, but that doesn't mean that all Rap is that way.
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Freak yo' swerve
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65251
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 18:55 |
Cylli Kat wrote:
I will be the first to admit that
I'm closed minded on this issue.
Please don’t try to sway me about
the “merits” of rap/hip-hop,
I am beyond being able to even give
this a fair hearing…
I hate that rap is being used to
convince those in the lowest socioeconomic groups that they too can be
"gangsta n*gg*s", with all of the bling and ho's and money and dope
that they'd ever want. The reality is that even the “big” (c)rap stars (with
perhaps the exception of Diddy and Jay-Z), are STILL in the lower income
bracket, (c)rappin' about what they WISHED were true about their real lives.
I hate that (c)rap is leading so
many down a path to violence, drug abuse, and the devaluation of human life,
the end of which will most likely be a violent death for those who believe in
and try to live this "urban fairy tale". Sad indeed... To quote Sinajuavi from
http://www.topix.net/forum/afam/TN6ODO7CNDDNQNMSA/p3
"It is the consciousness
generally which has to change. If the youth are idolizing people who glorify
misogyny and violence, then that's what will sell, and corporations will
encourage it. It's a circular thing...people demand what they want, and
corporations encourage them to want negative stuff..."
I hate how the (c)rappers are
whining about the "negative stereotypes" surrounding their
"craft".
What a joke!!! Tell me, what was the
last socially uplifting hip-hop/rap song you've heard? Didja ever notice that
you never hear the "rap" about going to church, helping the poor,
feeding the hungry, caring about human rights, eating your vegetables, doing
the right thing even when it may hurt, etc.??? Why not?!?!? Because (C)rap
"music" is a fraud, that makes money for all the wrong people and
encourages all the wrong behaviors, and is creating more urban blight than it
has ever addressed or contributed to helping. I
HATE (C)RAP/HIP-HOP AND THE BOGUS LIFESTYLE THAT IT SUPPOSEDLY
REPRESENTS!!!
I hate that
the (c)rappers and hip-hoppers are bemoaning the "stereotypes' they've
perpetuated and brought on themselves. Be real; they've EARNED all of the
negative stereotypes!!!
Sorry about
my level of vitriol, but I absolutely detest this garbage and all that it
represents. (BTW: this post was an edit of another series of posts that I contributed to another site.)
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But this has little to do with the quality of the music itself
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