No Offense, But Why...
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Forum Name: General Music Discussions
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46333
Printed Date: November 21 2024 at 23:51
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Topic: No Offense, But Why...
Posted By: MHDTV
Subject: No Offense, But Why...
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:34
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...Are all you progheads so close-minded about Hip Hop? Many of you complain about how close-minded your friends are, yet look at yourselves. Here are some bands to try:
Aesop Rock Madvillain Public Enemy Notorious B.I.G. EL-P Atmosphere KRS-One ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Replies:
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:36
EPMD  |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:38
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Oh, god is this going to bring back the "we need prog rap" thread. * I have listened to the majority of artists in your list, and I like it. |
Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:39
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Close-minded for life. ------------- 
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Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:39
Who is ALL? Please be specific and don't count us all inside. Some are; some aren't. Like you state afterwards:
(I personally and also many of my friends here listen to some of those you wrote and some others as well and some non-hip-hop/non-prog as well).
 ------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
MHDTV wrote:Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:41
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I really tried for a long time to get in to rap. Luckily my search has found a rapper I can really enjoy, Lil Wayne, or at least this one mixtape I've heard. It was downright creative and impressive, even to me. Oh and I've been listening to Saul Williams for a while too, he's quite good. -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:41
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I know you're not all this way, it's just I've seen post after post calling rap a 'pollution' and how it's 'killing music', or people saying that it's flat-out not music. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: avestin
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:44
like you said in your initial post.
Anyway, I think it would be a good idea to simply try and counter-post with suggestions and a short explanation about possible things to listen to and why.
------------- http://hangingsounds.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Hanging Sounds http://www.progarchives.com/ProgRockShopping.asp" rel="nofollow - PA Index of prog music vendors |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:44
Oh gods, he's horrible. Try this: By%20The%20Time%20I%20Get%20To%20Arizona - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39DJqI8puV0 ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:45
Ok. I'll make a rap intro compilation. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:46
| I would say ten years ago Hip Hop was probably the most creative popular music form around |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:48
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I don't like many hip hop artists ... but I don't think that this means that I'm close-minded. I simply don't enjoy listening to the music, it doesn't appeal to me. There *are* a few tracks which I like, but those are all on the fringes of the genre and contain elements of other genres.
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to: 
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Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:48
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Still is. Prog is pretty stale right around now. Seems like it's just a bunch of old bands doing the same thing they've always done. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:50
I wasn't saying just because you dislike it means you're close-minded. Just that I doubt most people have actually heard any, and condemn it just because. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:50
He's terrible and amazing at the same time. It's really funny. ------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:52
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You mean Chuck D? I think not. Lil Wayne is just plain awful. No flow, terrible hackneyed lyrics... ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:52
| Not to go off on a tangent but I find it absolutely hysterical that Ice Cube made "Burn Hollywood Burn" when he is starring in a bunch of crappy movies. |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:53
That's Public Enemy actually. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:54
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But it's still funny that someone who rapped on f**k The Police is also in 'Are We There Yet'. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:55
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Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 01:56
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Is he? The video or the actual song? Didn't know that. Still funny though. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 02:00
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http://www.publicenemy.com/index.php?page=page5&item=3&num=64 - http://www.publicenemy.com/index.php?page=page5&item=3&num=64 |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 06:34
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Personally, I'm not a big fan of hip-hop, but I'm not 100 per cent averse to it either. I own all of Rage Against The Machine's albums, which is a band to me that incorporates hip hop in a very listenable way, IMO. ------------- 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 06:58
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I'm not closed minded about rap. I've been subjected to hip hop for over a decade. After having been bomdarded with Run DMC, Public Enemy, Ice T, NWA, Dre, Gangstar etc etc.. I can honestly say I've given it a fair go, and still think it's awful. There is nothing there to appeal to me.
When I'm told by my friends that liking prog is pretentious, I point out that it is actually nowhere near as pretentious as white, middle class, middle aged men 'digging' Rap  Believe me, they dont like that!
The closest to to rap I've liked is Massive Attack. I cant stand Rap and rock together! 
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Posted By: wolfvaga
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 06:59
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I had a chance to listen hip-hop (my younger brother likes it) in different languages... And I don't like it... Frankly, it nothing about close-minded stuff over here, I think that that is all about flavor... Example-I also like ambiental, new-age and jazz music...
------------- Lupus in fabula :) |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 07:33
Well, would you agree that most (in the 90% area) hip hop artists tend to keep their music really simple? That's my main problem with the genre ... there are quite a few track which only use one note for the vocals and one chord/base tone throughout. Of course there are also those hip-hop artists who use soul influences (female vocals) and/or samples from other genres. I can listen to many of those tracks on the radio without any problems and I'm also enjoying it to some extent, but it's not something which I would download or buy in a store. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/users/Mike" rel="nofollow">Recently listened to:
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 07:42
| I really can't open my mind so big to accept rap or hip hop to my head. I've accepted pop, new wave and few metal acts. (my head is full of prog and classic rock) Hip Hop perhaps can be in my mind for few days with a sticky rythm or lyrics but never be 4ever. Pop okay is the same but I can listen it in my room like Inxs or Simply Red I love em. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 09:30
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I am not close minded against hip hop i like many bands and artist like: Public enemy, Dr dre, Eminem, Snoop dog, Kenny west, Outkast.... are all very good, sure i dont got that many hip hop albums. But im not one of thos that say all hip hop / rap sucks, even tough im not the bigest fan, thers is alot of stuff i like. ------------- 
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 09:51
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I have "opened my mind" to it on many occasions. I have even heard a little (very little) that I do like. But, I can honestly say that the majority of it is not worth my time. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 09:56
Being close minded has nothing to do with it. It's all personal tastes. I'm sure I've got discs in my collection that you wouldn't like. Does that make YOU close minded? E ------------- 
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Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 10:09
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Oh yeah I tried to listen to El-P so I got an album by him and it was just straightforward jazz. Not bad though.
------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 14:11
I already explained this. I'm not going to do it again. Once again, I encourage people to try non-mainstream Hip-Hop like Aesop Rock, KRS-One, or Jazz-Hop and Trip-Hop like DJ Shadow. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 14:17
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My tastes are really narrow, but I've tried a lot of these supposed progressive rap artists and found it *truly* boring. Not repulsive, not IQ-reducing, just dull as hell. Sorry. ;P
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 14:20
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Really? Public Enemy? KRS-One? I can understand Aesop Rock or whatever, but really? Well to each their own. As I've been trying to explain I don't care if you dislike it, just if, you say that's it killing music or whatever. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 14:23
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Oh, don't worry, I don't think anything can kill music apart from a huge meteor.
------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 14:58
Mike is right and also (in my view) off target... You're aright in the simplicity (it's musically poor, I guess) of hip hop, of most of it at least.... But of course, it's wrong if you listen to that music because of that... I guess trying to hear hip hop for its harmonies or other musical factors will leave you dry... but if you let the simple bass lines and little details just get you in the mood, if you just listen the music ofr its attitude or because it entertains you, it can listenable... I have like 8 hip-hop albums in my collection.. it's about 1% of it... yet I like those albums... Now, another way to enjoy is if you listen to some good lyrics about violence and gangsta life (2Pac is the king there)...
there's some art to be found in hip-hop, just don't try to think every art has to be measured in purely musical notions...
I have Dr Dre, 2Pac, Big, Snoop ( ), Eric&Rakim, PublicEnemy, NAS and that's about it...well, that's 7 actually, but I have 2 of 2 pac and 2 of big, so that's 9....------------- 
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Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 15:18
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Yah, Tupac and Nas are Hip Hop like Kenny G is Jazz in terms of complexity and innovation. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 15:24
Yeah, it's kinda like that.
It's not hip-hop that's killing music, it's mainstream music in general. Mainstream rock like Nickelstaindpuddleofcreedback is just as bad as Lil' John.
There is, however a large creative underground that's just as musically innovative as any prog-rock record. ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 15:31
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It's like that with all music these days. How many good mainstream artists are there in any genre these days... ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 16:41
As I said, I don't go to hip hop for complexity and innovation, but for other things. I don't care and I don't WANT some complicated hiphop. I enjoy the little that I enjoy because it's raw, poor, direct. For more "complexity and innovation" I have my classical, my prog, and even some jazz, Brubeck, Davis, that stuff... Not Kenny G. But for hiphop, something I don't hear to be amazed at the musicianship, I can take your Kenny Gs.... -------------
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Posted By: Apsalar
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 17:54
| I'm probably one of the biggest hip-hop fans around this part. I have found just as many bands to like as I have in prog, then again I usually only like very small proportions of genres. I personally don't consider myself very open minded. Some interesting bands: A Tribe Called Quest, Subtle, fbcfabric & reindeer, Cunninlynguist, DJ Screw, etcetera. |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 18:06
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I'm not a huge fan of the genre, but there's some interesting stuff off at the margins - I've recently heard some Dalek, an avant hip hop act signed to Mike Patton's Ipecac label who have collaborated with Faust, and of course there was Dr Walker's collaboration with Holger Czukay. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 18:13
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i don't care for the mainstream modern stuff but i can listen to some older stuff like NWA and Public Enemy. I also don't really like a lot of today's rock bands that mix their rock with hip hop but faith no more is one of my favourite bands and they are one of the first to do that. but for mainstream stuff, i've been force fed that for years and i can't stand it, but i can listen to the rap artists that actually have something to say, unlike soulja boy and his types. |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 19:04
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Beastie boys! I have heard far too little of them, but intergalactic is pretty great.
------------- 
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 19:49
hip-hop.... pfff... wanna see close-minded.. mention prog-pop. Watch the eyes of the close-minded roll back into their heads and foam protrude from their mouths. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 21:21
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But Prog-Pop really does suck... ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 22:27
I didn't ask you to explain a stinkin' thing. Got it? You asked, I answered. You brought up 'close minded', not me. E -------------
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 22:45
That's like asking why I am close-minded toward close-mindedness. Sorry, but rap has de facto become regressive, just like pop, and pretty much modern rock as well. I mean there are no threads asking for prog-pop are there? Oh I'm sorry we do have neo-prog  j/k |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 23:01
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Uh, why? Just because you don't like it, and haven't bothered to find anything good? I fail to see how producers like Blockhead, who done everything from classical sampling, to pure jazz backgrounds, is regressive in the least. Even Timbaland, while overtly commercial, manages to sneak in some productions you can tell he made for himself and himself alone. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: February 18 2008 at 23:56
| Look, the idea of rap as I see it is in conflict with prog. Does that mean there are no good rap groups, of course not. But it means I've got plenty of other genres to wear out before I start digging thru that haystack for a needle. |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 00:12
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How the hell is the idea of rap contradictory to prog? There isn't even an 'idea' of rap. It's just music, it can be progressive, or it ca be stale and regressive. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 00:16
| I could write you a book, but I'm tired so you'll just have to ponder whilst gazing towards the stars. |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 00:17
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Most prog bands aren't exactly progressive these days, so... ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 00:28
| you've got guts, I respect that.. hey, just be glad you've gotten so many positive responses |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 00:46
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------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:12
Simply because some of us don't like it, point, we don't bneed to have the same taste, go to a Rap forum, mention King Crimosn and then tell me what you got as aresponse.
I tried Hip Hop, I tried each band that has been mentioned as a great one, and all sound the same to me, that's my opinion, ir not that I have prejudices or anything, I simply don't like Hip Hop and consider it mostly street poetry with rhythm, if that's being close minded, I honestly don't care to be one.
Honestly, after this statement that reveals lack of knowledge of modern Prog and using a despective word like stale (Tasteless from old age and tedious), you dare to call us close minded?
Then you said Prog Pop (Whatever that is) sucks, without giving a single argument or explanation....Kettle Pot syndrome?
We respect your taste even if we don't share it, but if you come to a Prog Forum calling Progressive Rock bands old and tedious...That's not a good start.
People got different tastes, you gotta get used to that.
I wonder how many modern bands you heard like:
Just to mentoion 5 out of several hundreed? There's a revolution in Prog, lately the genre is changing as never nefore since the late 90's, so it's good to get informed before you say something that has no support.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: everyone
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:22
| The most progressive hip hop artists I have heard is the Divine Styler. Today's hip hop is not as experimental compared to the late 80's, early 90's hip hop. I still like the Last Poets and the Roots. If I do listen to rap today the group will have a live band in the background. I do not want to listen to some canned b*****dized versions of "Pass the Peas," "Flashlight" and other bits and pieces of others music only to add "their flavor." Mostly that "flavor" is a bunch of mindless dribble. Rap artist are lyricists not as they claim to be...musicians. Prog musicians write the music and play the instruments on their albums. Todays rap is just overproduced pablum just like the pop r&b. I do like the version of P.E's "She Watch Channel Zero" by the band Follow for Now. I do own about 300 rap albums that range from the Last Poets to the first Flavor Unit record. |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:22
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1. I've explained this twice... 2. A lack of knowledge of modern prog? Because I think it's mainly a bunch of rehashes of the band mebers 70's idols, I lack knowledge of modern prog? 3. Prog Pop was a joke. I didn't call prog old and tedious, I said that right now I think prog i just recycling old ideas. I don't have a problem with people having different tastes, I have a problem with people saying Hip Hop 'sucks', or it's 'killing music'. Got it? Edit: Post above most recent. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:24
What kind of stuff do they do? Sounds like a Trip Hop band. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: everyone
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:38
| The Divine Styler used some pyschedelic samples and sounds from the 60's and combined them with some funk samples from the 70's. Along with a pro Black Muslim(like X-Clan) message. The album I own came out in the early 90's long before trip hop was created. |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:41
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So sampling Trip-Hop. Sounds interesting. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:41
-------------
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Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:53
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Holy f**k, I was commenting on the current state of prog, not in general. I joined the forums after all. Stop making a big deal out of the prog-pop comment. It's irrevelant. When I say 'prog is stale', I don't mean universally. I mean most of it is recycled crap. I fail to see how any kind of Hip-Hop is killing music. I mean, what does it matter if 50 Cent tops the charts, it's not hurting anyone, it doesn't stop people from making good music. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 02:02
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Posted By: everyone
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 02:11
| "When I say 'prog is stale', I don't mean universally. I mean most of it is recycled crap." I guess rap does not recycle anything. Rap groups have been sampling music from artists from the 60's and 70's since the early 80's. That is recycling every note and beat. The current prog groups might "sound" recycled but the music is original. Take the lyrics away from rap lyricists like the Beasties and De La Soul and there is no difference in the music there, because they take their samples from the same artists note for note. Being that very few rap artist compose the actual music . Listen to Maceo and the Macks and the J. B.'s and you can hear my point. I can tell a difference between the Flower Kings and Yes. |
Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 06:20
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These threads are always so much fun.
I kind of like cLOUDDEAD, although I haven't been able to make it all the way through their album yet. I listen to too much music on the computer. :( ------------- "Never forget that the human race with technology is like an alcoholic with a barrel of wine." Sleepytime Gorilla Museum: Because in their hearts, everyone secretly loves the Unabomber. |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 06:23
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Dr Visitor says: Close-mindedness against rap is just an expression of the repressed knowledge that prog is to classical what rap is to prog  Seriously now, been meaning to check out more rap for ages now, but kept forgetting. Heard a Madvillain song the other day, it was fun ! Seriously, some of these guys can write CRAZY lyrics, I even tried rapping along, it's refreshing.
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Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 08:24
Yes, spot on. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: Utah Man
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 12:11
Question: Are you "open-mouthed" to things which you hate to taste / eat ? Re-worded: i don't open my mouth to anything / everything, why open my (or your) mind to anything / everything ? As far as food goes, most people are selective about what they eat. Does that make then "closed-mouthed" ? . . |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 15:39
Aren't YOU a proghead too? Or why are you here?
Don't spit upwards....
Many people here ARE actually close-minded... and many aren't... and those that are are within their right to be close-minded... even if I or we don't agree with that...
I also resent the "recycled crap" argument... at least say "recycled music" or "ideas" or something... when you say something is crap... well... it's crap. If it's crap for you, I don't know what the hell will you be listening to.... if it's not and it's just a shocking term... well... you're within your right....
Again... as I said, I like some very commercial old gangsta-style (yes, the style that "killed music") records... But I wouldn't ever compare one single minute of them with the art in "recycled crap" like The Flower Kings.....So I also like recycled crap.... -------------
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Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 16:07
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When one doesn't like a general style that doesn't mean one is close minded. It takes knowledge about the subject to know if one does or does not like it.
So not liking a style infers that one has explored the field and thus is open minded about it, one has just reached the conclusion that it doesn't suit him/her.
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 16:11
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listening to Saul Williams right now in fact not sure of the relevance perhaps a coincidence? ------------- 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 16:11
Don't forget a lot of it also rehashes of the avant prog! A lot of bands are original, but of all the modern bands we have here, very very few are a whiff of fresh air. In my experience that is. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 17:52
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"...Are all you progheads so close-minded about Hip Hop?" When you chose this particular word, you placed yourself outside the "family" of prog rock fans. This might be a part of why you haven't gotten the response you might have hoped for with this thread. Your tone is highly argumentative and you provide no examples whatsoever to support your outlandish (and whining) claims. Nearly every response to your inflammatory comments have been answered with thoughtful examples. Please do the same; your position has no validity without supporting evidence to back it up. "it's just I've seen post after post calling rap a 'pollution' and how it's 'killing music', or people saying that it's flat-out not music."I've been on this site for over two years and have never seen even one single post saying any of these things. Show me the posts you're talking about that make you think that "us progheads" think this way. "When I say 'prog is stale', I don't mean universally. I mean most of it is recycled crap." Now to the real contradictions in your position. You initially call all of us (and you exclude no one in your opening post) close-minded. The correct words are actually closed-minded but we'll let your lack of knowledge of grammar and syntax slide for the moment. (maybe its a "rap thing") My question to you is how are you any different? First you call us all "close-minded" which is true. Most of us on this site are pretty close-minded. We all like a lot of the same music. Our tastes and what we think of this music (our minds) are pretty close. They are not however even remotely closed. Then you show your own closed-mindedness while also demonstrating your own lack of knowledge of the current prog scene by referring to it as Stale Crap. As Ivan mentions, Prog is changing at a pace that hasn't been seen since the early 70's. A lot of it is moving in directions I don't particularly care for. I like Stale Crap. You have obviously not taken the time to familiarize yourself with much of what is new in Prog. So to use your own argument, you should look harder for prog that is new and different or to use your own words "I encourage people to try non-mainstream" Prog.The problem with your approach to this issue lies in the fact that you are equally guilty of every sin you accuse ALL of us of committing. Rap and hip hop are as unavoidable as breathing in today's world. To accuse anyone of not knowing what it is about, or what it sounds like is the same as saying we hate ALL hamburgers because we don't like MacDonalds. I don't like hip hop because it doesn't hold my interest musically, and because lyrically I find a large portion of it (not all, but a lot) to be offensive. I did just hear something that I enjoy very much. It was a concerto for DJ (DJ Spooky, of NYC) and Orchestra (Boston) by a composer named Anthony DeRitiis. This piece of music used the technology of hip hop in a truly interesting and musical way that I think many on this site would like. This is for DeRitis' home page where there is a nice explanation of the piece and some clips: http://www.deritis.com/devolution/ Also, a link to the full 25 minute mp3 is here: http://www.music.neu.edu/APD/devolution.mp3 Next time before you cry "Waaa Waaa" about something try to at least have some facts to help your intended audience "feel your pain". This isn't Xanga Now, if you'll excuse me my close-minded friends and I are going to listen to some Stale Crap. |
Posted By: YesGoblin
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 18:45
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well said Trademark
exactly, just because we don't like a genre doesn't mean were being close minded
and besides quite frankly all rap is more or less the same
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Posted By: YesGoblin
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 18:48
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the fact that 50cent is topping the charts pretty much tells us that the music industry has gone down hill, think of it, he's just singing ( if you can call it that), they can barely do live preformances, and when they do its all about the visuals to cover up the lack of musicality the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music |
Posted By: scruffydragon
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:00
I can remember when hip hop first crawled out from america and landed over here.It was a novilty at first,and I did listen to a lot of it.Found it quite funny when uk pop artists and rock artists started to jump on the bandwaggon.
But the problem with it for me is that we are constantly bombarded by it through TV,radio,HELL even the young people living down my street blast it out of the windows,so no excape.Even my brother used to blast it out of his room,or play it as loud as he could downstairs with his mates in tow.So you see I have been educated in it,and am still being educated in it.Problem is after this amount of time could say I am pretty fed up with it and all of its many forms.
All I can say is thank god for prog.
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Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:02
And? There are alot of music genre who's music is based on drum machine and beats and that doesn't make it any less artistic. ------------- 
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:17
how is this any different than Britney Spears or Backstreet Boys? -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:52
Yes... you can actually make wonders with drum machines and fake music.... how can music be fake? Music is music.. organized sound... if you hear notes with some organization , it's music... period.... IT CAN'T BE FAKE... only fake music would be..... literature? Poetry? Motion Pictures? Those are NOT music... so you can say that if somebody tells you those are music, those would be FAKE music... but ANY music, awful, poor, childish, weak, atrocious, whatever, as long as it's music, IS MUSIC. The "truth or falsehood" in music doesn't depend on which instruments play it... even if it's just a pre-programmed computer making the music, it still isn't "fake"... it's still MUSIC!!! there can't be "fake" music unless it's actually NO music....
I guess the thread starter made the mistake of saying he's actually NOT a proghead by saying "all of you progheads"... So I wonder what the hell is he doing in a prog website.... Usually, when you write "hip hop" on Google, Progarchives.com will probably be the 394873947023 possible link, and that IF the system recognizes any comment made in a forum about hip hop.. but there's really no way to get here by mistake...
Recognize, thread starter, that you are also a proghead, and that you're also close-minded when you believe all of us are close-minded...
And even if we are, what the f**k is the problem? This is no Hoparchives.com... -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 20:17
that's incorrect , which is the attitude we all seem to be addressing (in fact there was a period when hip hop was the most creative form going)
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 20:28
I agree Chamberry even when as a former drummer I hate drum machines, must admit that asa COMPLEMENT and programmed by a real drummer (A drum machine is close to the skillds of the rummer who programmed it but klacks of originality and invemntive), I agree with you.
So if you play with real keys, real guitars, real bass and a drum machine, the resiults can be pretty decent.
But in the case of most samplers they:
So the difference is obvious....Where is the creativity in the second case? Again I personally don't like Rap, but there muust be a good artist somewhere (I haven't listened him yet), but I wouldn't go to Hiphop Archives and tell them..."Hey all your music is repetitive crap and it sucks"
Probably they will ban me after insulting three generations before me and cursing 5 generations of my descendants.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 21:41
| C'mon, any musical genre whose participants routinely murder each other can't be all bad. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:04
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Did I get here to late? Is anyone still interested?
I love late 80s hip-hop and mid-90s trip-hop, very creative music!!! Some favorites include Public Enemy, EPMD, Eric B and Rakim, Ice T, Depth Charge, Jonah Sharpe and NWA. ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:10
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Besides Immortal Treaon, I'm really not a fan of rap/hip hop.
Though I do highly respect rap. ------------- 
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Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:20
1. Just drop this argument, once again, it has no relevance. 2. I've heard quite a few modern prog bands, and I think the majority of them aren't the least bit original. I'm calling all the music you like crap, far from it, I've only commented on modern prog bands, and I haven't said they're all bad. I said I think most of them are just recycling what they grew up listening. 3. Hip Hop can be as elaborate or simplistic as the maker wants. It can be a mix of psychedelia, Jazz, and Metal, or it can be a pop song with someone rapping over it. Pop music has always been mainly simple, formulaic 3 minute songs. Hip Hop hasn't changed that. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:25
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Just a reminder: I'm not calling everyone here close minded. I don't think there's anything wrong with not liking Hip Hop. I don' think all modern prog is recycled crap. I think a good deal of modern prog bands are recycled crap, and that prog has gone downhill in the past few years. Before any of you post read the whole thread. I've probably already said something in response to a reply almost identical to yours. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:27
So...you're not calling all modern prog bad, just MOST modern prog. I agree, no biggie.  |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:29
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Hmmm... just to let you know "homogonized HD TV channel" My oddly politically oppinioned mind is at this verry moment taking in some deep thoughts via Immortal Technique (if you dont know who that is he is an anti-establishment socialistic rapper, I reccomend Revolutionary vol.I) ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:30
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Oh yea and next up is Yes, so get over it, I can like... no love rap. and I can love Prog. Dont call me close minded ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:32
Once again, you sound like you have no clue what you're talking about. 2007 was one of the single greatest years in progressive rock history, with no less than 25 more than solid entries. It is quite possibly the best year for prog since 1972.
Actually, if they read the whole thread they are likely to get incensed at your comments about modern prog. If they only read the first post and comment, they are more likely to actually discuss hip-hop. This thread had real potential, but your steadfast devotion to an opinion that seems totally without foundation has derailed it. |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:42
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Alright, I'll abandon that argument then. I just don't think this was a very good year for prog. I've heard quite a few good albums just not as many as in previous years.
@Proletariat: I never called you close minded. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:50
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"Before any of you post read the whole thread. I've probably already
said something in response to a reply almost identical to yours." You're a 13 year old child with the rhetorical skills of someone half your age. You haven't responded to anything at all. Several people have asked you valid questions about the specifics of your blanket generalizations on modern prog (which by the way constitutes well over half the music in the archives) and you have responded only by saying you've already responded, much like a 6 year old might do when caught peeing on the toilet paper. "I didn't do it!!" he says with his wee wee hanging out. I have 3 degrees in music (1 undergraduate and 2 graduate degrees). Please tell me what modern prog you've heard and which of those artists that you feel is Recycled Stale Crap and which hip hop artists you want to make a comparison with and I will be happy to give you a detailed musical analysis of both so we can see who is Recycling, what is Stale, and which is Crap. |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 22:58
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I'm not interested in doing that. Why? I've heard a good deal of prog from the last few years, and I don't feel the need to justify why I dislike something, and I don't need to musically analyze something to tell if it sounds a bit too much like something else. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 23:01
Cop out. |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 23:05
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^^ we still have no idea what you think "sounds a bit too much like something else". You have not responded to any of my questions so I must assume that you either have nothing to base your own argument on or that you fear being exposed as wrong. I believe the answer is a combination of both those fears. You've put your foot in your mouth and now you'll pretend you like having it there to avoid the embarrassment. Childish. Step up and put your money where your mouth is. "it's just I've seen post after post calling rap a 'pollution' and how it's 'killing music', or people saying that it's flat-out not music." I've been on this site for over two years and have never seen even one single post saying any of these things. Show me the posts you're talking about that make you think that "us progheads" think this way. Where is the answer to this question I asked you? You have not responded (and continue to not respond) in any way at all. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 23:12
Given your high level of music education I am suprised your music reviews on this site contain no information at all. Like a lot of people on this site I have undergraduate and graduate degrees in music as well as lots of real-time paid playing experience. Your little boy peeing analogy was insulting and unecessary ------------- Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446 |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 23:18
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I think the analogy was strikingly appropriate. I call them like I see them. Sorry if it bothered you. I don't do reviews. The reviews are not something I have any real interest in. I threw in a couple of ratings once in the midst of a debate over whether or not the top 50 could be unfairly influenced by ratings without reviews. I'd remove them but I haven't bothered to figure out how to do so. |
Posted By: MHDTV
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 23:24
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1. I'm not arguing this anymore. Call it a cop out, or whatever you want, but it's not going anywhere, it's derailing the thread, and there's no way to prove it either way. If you have a system to define good and bad music, please please enlighten me. Otherwise, this is pointless.
2. Most recently check out the 'Sympton of the universe' thread. ------------- Freak yo' swerve |
Posted By: Trademark
Date Posted: February 19 2008 at 23:27
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The question has nothing to do with good or bad. It had to do with what was (or is) Stale, Recycled Crap, and that is quite easy to determine through careful analysis but apparently you have no examples so... |