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MHDTV View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:41
So sampling Trip-Hop. Sounds interesting.
Freak yo' swerve
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:41
Originally posted by MHDTV MHDTV wrote:


1. I've explained this twice...
2. A lack of knowledge of modern prog? Because I think it's mainly a bunch of rehashes of the band mebers 70's idols, I lack knowledge of modern prog?
 
I gave you a modest list of 5 s¿rtists that play something absolutely no related with the 70's style,...Have you heard any of them? Do you have any argument to say Prog is just a bunch rehashes of the band members of the70's? 
 
Please give arguments
 

3. Prog Pop was a joke.
 
Didn't sounded as a joke, even when I'm not a fan of what can be called Prog Pop, before you say something suckes..GIVE ARGUMENTS.
 
I didn't call prog old and tedious,
 
Yes you did, you want me to quote you?
 
Still is. Prog is pretty stale right around now.
 
Those were your words:
 
Quote
Main Entry:  1stale

1 : tasteless or unpalatable from age <stale bread> 2 : tedious from familiarity <a stale routine> 3 : impaired in legal force or effect by reason of being allowed to rest without timely use, action, or demand <a stale affidavit> <a stale debt> 4 : impaired in vigor or effectiveness

Your words not mine.
 
I said that right now I think prog i just recycling old ideas.
 
That's not true at all, try Avant Prog or RIO then tell me if they are just recycling ideas.
 
 I don't have a problem with people having different tastes, I have a problem with people saying Hip Hop 'sucks', or it's 'killing music'. Got it?
 
I do believe Gangsta Rap and SOME Hip Hop is killing music and it's only an instrument of the music industry, surely there must be some good Hip Hop, but I  haven't heard it yet.
 
Iván
 
NTW: Progressive Rock doesn't have to progress, it's not one of it's characteristics, but for the third time Prog has changed dramatically, check even old Symphoionic, bands from Eastern Europe, Japan and Israel have brought new sounds and influences.
 
There's even a very eclectic Symphonic movement in USA very borderline with Avant Garde that is radically different to anything done before..

 
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 01:53
Holy f**k, I was commenting on the current state of prog, not in general. I joined the forums after all. Stop making a big deal out of the prog-pop comment. It's irrevelant. When I say 'prog is stale', I don't mean universally. I mean most of it is recycled crap. I fail to see how any kind of Hip-Hop is killing music. I mean, what does it matter if 50 Cent tops the charts, it's not hurting anyone, it doesn't stop people from making good music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 02:02
Originally posted by MHDTV MHDTV wrote:

Holy f**k, I was commenting on the current state of prog, not in general.
 
That's not thecurrent state of Prog, I insist your knowledge of new Prog bands sounds very  limited.
 
I joined the forums after all.
 
Good for that, I'm sure you'll enjoy the new tendencies
 
Stop making a big deal out of the prog-pop comment. It's irrevelant.
 
Don't worry about that, I don't even believe such thing as Pop Prog exists, but others do, and they don't deserve to read it sucks without at least a coherent argument.
 
When I say 'prog is stale', I don't mean universally. I mean most of it is recycled crap.
 
False again, seems you haven't heard new Prog, for your list the only remotely modern band  you heard is Radiohead.
 
BTW: Please, stop calling CRAP to the music we like, there are bands that sound as in the 70's and most of us believe are great, you come hear to say that our favorite music is crap and you call us close mnded?
 
I lobve Shadow Circus and Magenta, both are rooted in the 70's, how you call them crap and ask tolerance for Hip Hop?
 
 I fail to see how any kind of Hip-Hop is killing music. I mean, what does it matter if 50 Cent tops the charts, it's not hurting anyone, it doesn't stop people from making good music.
 
I doi believe it hurts, lowers the standards and the qualitry of music, people are less receptive to more elaborate music.
 
But, everybody is entitled to his/her taste.
 
Iván 
 
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 19 2008 at 02:06
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 02:11
"When I say 'prog is stale', I don't mean universally. I mean most of it is recycled crap."  I guess rap does not recycle anything.  Rap groups have been sampling music from artists from the 60's and 70's since the early 80's.  That is recycling every note and beat.  The current prog groups might "sound" recycled but the music is original.  Take the lyrics away from rap lyricists like the Beasties and De La Soul and there is no difference in the music there, because they take their samples from the same artists note for note.  Being that very few rap artist compose the actual music .  Listen to Maceo and the Macks and the J. B.'s and you can hear my point.  I can tell a difference between the Flower Kings and Yes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 06:20
These threads are always so much fun.
 
I kind of like cLOUDDEAD, although I haven't been able to make it all the way through their album yet. I listen to too much music on the computer. :(
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 06:23
Dr Visitor says:

Close-mindedness against rap is just an expression of the repressed knowledge that prog is to classical what rap is to prog Wink

Seriously now, been meaning to check out more rap for ages now, but kept forgetting.

Heard a Madvillain song the other day, it was fun Big%20smile ! Seriously, some of these guys can write CRAZY lyrics, I even tried rapping along, it's refreshing.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 08:24
Originally posted by MHDTV MHDTV wrote:



2. A lack of knowledge of modern prog? Because I think it's mainly a bunch of rehashes of the band mebers 70's idols, I lack knowledge of modern prog?



Yes, spot on.


Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 12:11
Originally posted by MHDTV MHDTV wrote:

...Are all you progheads so close-minded about Hip Hop?

Question: Are you "open-mouthed" to things which you hate to taste / eat ?

Re-worded:  i don't open my mouth to anything / everything, why open my (or your) mind to anything / everything ?

As far as food goes, most people are selective about what they eat.
Does that make then "closed-mouthed" ?










.





.



Edited by Utah Man - February 19 2008 at 20:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 15:39
Originally posted by MHDTV MHDTV wrote:

...Are all you progheads so close-minded about Hip Hop?

 
Aren't YOU a proghead too? Or why are you here?
 
Don't spit upwards....
 
Many people here ARE actually close-minded... and many aren't... and those that are are within their right to be close-minded... even if I or we don't agree with that...
 
I also resent the "recycled crap" argument... at least say "recycled  music" or "ideas" or something... when you say something is crap... well... it's crap. If it's crap for you, I don't know what the hell will you be listening to.... if it's not and it's just a shocking term... well... you're within your right....
 
Again... as I said, I like some very commercial old gangsta-style (yes, the style that "killed music") records... But I wouldn't ever compare one single minute of them with the art in "recycled crap" like The Flower Kings.....So I also like recycled crap....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 16:07

When one doesn't like a general style that doesn't mean one is close minded.

It takes knowledge about the subject to know if one does or does not like it.
 
So not liking a style infers that one has explored the field and thus is open minded about it, one has just reached the conclusion that it doesn't suit him/her.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 16:11
listening to Saul Williams right now in fact

not sure of the relevance
perhaps a coincidence?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 16:11
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

Originally posted by MHDTV MHDTV wrote:



2. A lack of knowledge of modern prog? Because I think it's mainly a bunch of rehashes of the band mebers 70's idols, I lack knowledge of modern prog?



Yes, spot on.



Don't forget a lot of it also rehashes of the avant prog! Big%20smile A lot of bands are original, but of all the modern bands we have here, very very few are a whiff of fresh air. In my experience that is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 17:52








"...Are all you progheads so close-minded about Hip Hop?"

When you chose this particular word, you placed yourself outside the "family" of prog rock fans.  This might be a part of why you haven't gotten the response you might have hoped for with this thread.  Your tone is highly argumentative and you provide no examples whatsoever to support your outlandish (and whining) claims.  Nearly every response to your inflammatory comments have been answered with thoughtful examples.  Please do the same; your position has no validity without supporting evidence to back it up.


"it's just I've seen post after post calling rap a 'pollution' and how it's 'killing music', or people saying that it's flat-out not music."I've been on this site for over two years and have never seen even one single post saying any of these things.  Show me the posts you're talking about that make you think that "us progheads" think this way.

"When I say 'prog is stale', I don't mean universally. I mean most of it is recycled crap."

Now to the real contradictions in your position.  You initially call all of us (and you exclude no one in your opening post) close-minded.  The correct words are actually closed-minded but we'll let your lack of knowledge of grammar and syntax slide for the moment. (maybe its a "rap thing")  My question to you is how are you any different?  First you call us all "close-minded" which is true.  Most of us on this site are pretty close-minded.  We all like a lot of the same music.  Our tastes and what we think of this music (our minds) are pretty close.  They are not however even remotely closed. Then you show your own closed-mindedness while also demonstrating your own lack of knowledge of the current prog scene by referring to it as Stale Crap.

As Ivan mentions, Prog is changing at a pace that hasn't been seen since the early 70's.  A lot of it is moving in directions I don't particularly care for.  I like Stale Crap.  You have obviously not taken the time to familiarize yourself with much of what is new in Prog.  So to use your own argument, you should look harder for prog that is new and different or to use your own words "I encourage people to try non-mainstream" Prog.The problem with your approach to this issue lies in the fact that you are equally guilty of every sin you accuse ALL of us of committing. 

Rap and hip hop are  as unavoidable as breathing in today's world.  To accuse  anyone of not knowing what it is about, or what it sounds like is the same as saying we hate ALL hamburgers because we don't like MacDonalds.  I don't like hip hop because it doesn't hold my interest musically, and because lyrically I find a large portion of it (not all, but a lot) to be offensive.  I did just hear something that I enjoy very much.  It was a concerto for DJ (DJ Spooky, of NYC) and Orchestra (Boston) by a composer named Anthony DeRitiis.  This piece of music used the technology of hip hop in a truly interesting and musical way that I think many on this site would like. 

This is for DeRitis' home page where there is a nice explanation of the piece and some clips:
http://www.deritis.com/devolution/

Also, a link to the full 25 minute mp3 is here:
http://www.music.neu.edu/APD/devolution.mp3

Next time before you cry "Waaa Waaa" about something try to at least have some facts to help your intended audience "feel your pain".  This isn't Xanga

Now, if you'll excuse me my close-minded friends and I are going to listen to some Stale Crap.


Edited by Trademark - February 19 2008 at 20:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 18:45
well said Trademark
exactly, just because we don't like a genre doesn't mean were being close minded
and besides quite frankly all rap is more or less the same
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 18:48

the fact that 50cent is topping the charts pretty much tells us that the music industry has gone down hill,

think of it, he's just singing ( if you can call it that), they can barely do live preformances, and when they do its all about the visuals to cover up the lack of musicality

the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:00
I can remember when hip hop first crawled out from america and landed over here.It was a novilty at first,and I did listen to a lot of it.Found it quite funny when uk pop artists and rock artists started to jump on the bandwaggon.
But the problem with it for me is that we are constantly bombarded by it through TV,radio,HELL even the young people living down my street blast it out of the windows,so no excape.Even my brother used to blast it out of his room,or play it as loud as he could downstairs with his mates in tow.So you see I have been educated in it,and am still being educated in it.Problem is after this amount of time could say I am pretty fed up with it and all of its many forms.Thumbs%20Down
 
All I can say is thank god for prog.TongueThumbs%20Up
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:02
Originally posted by YesGoblin YesGoblin wrote:

the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music


And? There are alot of music genre who's music is based on drum machine and beats and that doesn't make it any less artistic.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:17
Originally posted by YesGoblin YesGoblin wrote:

the fact that 50cent is topping the charts pretty much tells us that the music industry has gone down hill,

think of it, he's just singing ( if you can call it that), they can barely do live preformances, and when they do its all about the visuals to cover up the lack of musicality

the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music



how is this any different than Britney Spears or Backstreet Boys?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2008 at 19:52
Originally posted by chamberry chamberry wrote:

Originally posted by YesGoblin YesGoblin wrote:

the acutal music part is all programmed with drum machines and fake music


And? There are alot of music genre who's music is based on drum machine and beats and that doesn't make it any less artistic.

 
Yes... you can actually make wonders with drum machines and fake music.... how can music be fake? Music is music.. organized sound... if you hear notes with some organization , it's music... period.... IT CAN'T BE FAKE... only fake music would be..... literature? Poetry? Motion Pictures? Those are NOT music... so you can say that if somebody tells you those are music, those would be FAKE music... but ANY music, awful, poor, childish, weak, atrocious, whatever, as long as it's music, IS MUSIC. The "truth or falsehood" in music doesn't depend on which instruments play it... even if it's  just a pre-programmed computer making the music, it still isn't "fake"... it's still MUSIC!!! there can't be "fake" music unless it's actually NO music....
 
I guess the thread starter made the mistake of saying he's actually NOT a proghead by saying "all of you progheads"... So I wonder what the hell is he doing in a prog website.... Usually, when you write "hip hop" on Google, Progarchives.com will probably be the 394873947023 possible link, and that IF the system recognizes any comment made in a forum about hip hop.. but there's really no way to get here by mistake...
 
Recognize, thread starter, that you are also a proghead, and that you're also close-minded when you believe all of us are close-minded...
 
And even if we are, what the f**k is the problem? This is no Hoparchives.com...
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