Pick up artist?

Even if these 'tricks' did work (I hope not), you'd eventually have to realize that the things you're saying are not coming out of your own mouth, you're not being your true self. I'd rather be alone all my life and be the silly fool that I am than use these methods, losing my self-respect and dignity in the process. If I want to buy a girl a drink, then I will damn well do so!

Maybe I'm taking this thread too seriously, but these pick-up 'artists' really make my blood boil.

Evans wrote: That's the whole point, not trying to manipulate them with presents. :) I think it's very naive and silly so say "oh, just be yourself, it's WRONG to play games" when it is very obvious that girls themselves play games all the time. They're just better at it. Have you ever talked to a girl and suddenly she points to another guy and tells you how hot she thinks he is? Why do you think she does that? Because she thinks you're just her friend? No, she wants to test you, see how you react, if you tell her "naah.. not that much", she'll get that you're really insecure and she'll lose interest. Learning those tricks and knowing a few of your own, how is that wrong? You say she'll notice how you're deeper than the guys who go all "omg, breasts!" (by the way, in pick up terminology, it's "HB10", not just 10.. :) ) and while that is true, that will not end up getting you laid/into a relationship with her. She'll just call you every night for hours for advice on how to get this guy who she TOTALLY has a crush on. Most so called pick up artists say that sure, they entered it for the girls, but what they found was so much more, they learned a lot about themselves, the world and, of course, women.

Hey, I'm partly on your side...I wouldn't say that you're the only one with a positive attitude about it ...I just don't go with everything these guys in "the community" say because I've watched people lose themselves when what they were really trying to do was become better people.  I agree that telling someone to "be themselves" is bad advice; I think it's important to 'find yourself' first, because obviously (if someone isn't successful) being themselves isn't working, they must not be comfortable of aware of themself...so really this isn't "being yourself".  I had to laugh at the red part because it reminds me of myself a few years ago, I was so clueless about this because I didn't grow up around women (no sisters, no girlfriends) and the way I dealt with it was so pathetic.  Once you see women in a new light (as you put it) these tests become predictable and easy to navigate around. 

I might've misunderstood your initial point (with the threesomes and all). I thought we were talking about dem playaz & how to become one. If these books give you advice on becoming a better, more considerate person, then hey, nothing wrong with that. Not being familiar with this Neil Strauss fellow, I probably shouldn't even be answering this thread anyway.

In any case, I do think there is something fundamentally wrong about books that indirectly treat women as pieces of meat that you can rate according to your tastes (even if a lot of men do this). Whether that is the case here, I can't say for sure...

BTW, whether girls play games is irrelevant to me - they can test me all they want, I have no interest in learning the answers from some random book. Where's the fun in that? :P

Well. It's kinda both, really. Most of the serious pick up artists (those who like to point out the difference between themselves and the common "players") live by the rule "leave her better than you found her", so there's no real resentment towards women in that way, and the rating is mostly a way to describe someone or a whole group of people in an abbreviated way, and you don't always know their names, so you give them nick names based on their appearances (like calling someone "nose girl" or "blue dress girl").

Sure, sometimes the views on women can be shallow, when you hit on people every day (to practice) you can't have a deeper emotional connection with every single one, but there is never any serious trickery involved. Canned openers, sure, but no "hey, i'm a photographer for moore, you have the potential" or "sleep with me or get a car".

And in answer to your last question, Jim, if you know the rules or the game, playing it is much more interesting :)

Evans wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Evans wrote: So, i have recently read "the Game" by Neil Strauss, which is basically his story about how he went from a sligtly nerdy writer with no women to a master seducer who could get practically any woman he wanted (plus all the threesomes he could ever wish for) in a little more than a year. Strangly enough, despite the popularity of the book, there are still a whole community of these pick up artists out there, and most of the methods still work, so i was kinda wondering what y'all thought about this? Maybe someone wants to confess to being a "seducer", maybe you think it's all bullsh*t and doesn't work, or maybe you just think it's immoral and wrong.. In any case, discuss! :) Face it, boys: These guys that claim they can pick up any woman they want just fool themselves. Whenever it does not work they say "ah well, I did not really want her". Well, not everyone falls for the same tricks. Just like you can't play the same game of football towards every team in the whole world, but in general, there are certain behavioural patterns many women follow, and once you get these you can avoid some of the.. common pot holes :) May be that they fool themselves.. but in that case, Neil Strauss fooled himself good enough to go from virtually no sex at all to regular threesomes in two years..

have you ever thought of this: it is no big deal to wind up with a new girl each day when you try to pick up any girl you meet; a certain percentage of women will always fall for you. it is simply the law of big numbers. of course those failures are not mentioned in an autobiography; he only speaks of his successes

Evans wrote: Think about this: Beautiful women are used to getting attention from men sucking up to them wherever they go, so if someone comes up to them and says "hi... wait, you've got some stuff in your hair, there you go, it's gone.." and then ignores them, they stick out, and the woman will want to try to get his attention because obviously her looks isn't going to do it. That makes him unique, and interesting.

I'd like to see him pull that trick on me

I am the one with the bandana on the head on the left

And you, Josh, could definitely need some classes in pick up, haha! 

Evans wrote: I understand your sceptiscism (spelling help on that one, please!), i had them too, i thought it sounded pretty stupid, but i got the book for present this christmas (by my family who obviously was sick of my inability to get laid) and after i started reading i realised that it was pretty good. I mean, it's all social interaction. A groud of people have gone out for several nights a week, on the street and in clubs, and, through trial and error found what is the most effective ways to build attraction in a girl you meet for the first time. Apparently it works. It just does, for some reason. That's not to say women are gullible or stupid, we men fall for the same thing so often that it's pathetic. Think about this: Beautiful women are used to getting attention from men sucking up to them wherever they go, so if someone comes up to them and says "hi... wait, you've got some stuff in your hair, there you go, it's gone.." and then ignores them, they stick out, and the woman will want to try to get his attention because obviously her looks isn't going to do it. That makes him unique, and interesting.

1.- I believe attraction should be an spontaneous thing, just like human spontaneous combustion; it just happen, and then you react. No magic trick will be as effective than just be yourself, because you'll have to be yourself eventually. If you show yourself as something else, you'll act during the whole thing. Now, ¿where's my Oscar for the use of the word "yourself"?.

2.- Beauty is a relative concept, a term. You should stablish your relations with others, sexually or not, based on more endurable things. Otherwise, your version of "love" will vanish with age and that is no love at all, wich leads us to the idea of you never experiencing love because of books and stupidity combined.

3.- A man turned into shampoo is, yes, unique and interesting. Not respectable or impressive at all, but unique and interesting. As much as decaffeinated coffe with fake milk and sugarless sugar. Interesting by all means, just not delicious.

Novalis wrote: Evans wrote: Not all women are slaves to their primitive emotions, but the techniques used by the seduction community all strive to take that primitive part up for air and make her give in to it. Not every guy can be an alpha male, but those who are are definitely gonna have more success with women, work, and almost every social situation imaginable. Alpha is not only about taking space, it is about knowing WHEN to take your space, and to then be able to do so. Do you have a girlfriend, Novalis? If you do, do you think that she would be able to fall for one of the so called "pick up artists"? :) As a matter of fact I don't (at the moment), but when the next one comes along I sure as hell hope she isn't as gullible (or to be blunt: stupid) as to fall for one of these guys. It's a silly game really, because if all a woman wants is casual sex, why play hard to get? Why care about status if it's only for one drunken night? And if she's looking for a partner that can take care of her, why fall for a cheesy POA who's only in it for that night? That's not to say all of it is stupid, it may help you understand why some women act the way they do and it may even help you get that special someone  to notice you which is necessary for them to get to know you.

Well.. think of it this way. You might be a total a catch. You're nice, smart, have a big prog collection, and you love cats and babies and can probably play an instrument (most on these boards seem to do), but most people you pass on the street will never know that. That girl who sat next to you on the subway yesterday whom you thought was really pretty and would have liked to get to know better, she will never know that.
In order for her to see your true self, you need to penetrate that shield she has which tells her to stay away from strange people on the tube, and for many people, being themselves is just not going to do that. Either they are too shy, or they freeze up whenever a beautiful woman talks to them, or they just don't know what to say and they end up looking like weirdos in her eyes. So what's wrong with learning a few shortcuts?


Women also "test" the men in certain ways, especially the really beautiful ones, because they are so used to men chatting them up that they need to make sure you are something special and worth investing in.

Some men who are too shy just go to the bar and get really drunk, then they hit on everything that moves.  Maybe they "get lucky" and find a girl who's equally drunk and they "score". That's how it usually happens. Many people build life long relationships upon that meeting. That is absolutely mindblowing, the way i see it. I would much rather have the option to choose whoever i want, and to do that it might be useful to learn some tricks, in order to get past the shield she has put up to keep all the sleazy weirdoes out of her life. :)

So yo see, it's not a matter of "fooling the stupid bieatches into sex", but more about creating equal conditions for both sexes. Remember, girls have a huge advantage in this area already.