Pick up artist?
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Topic: Pick up artist?
Posted By: Evans
Subject: Pick up artist?
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 06:31
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So, i have recently read "the Game" by Neil Strauss, which is basically his story about how he went from a sligtly nerdy writer with no women to a master seducer who could get practically any woman he wanted (plus all the threesomes he could ever wish for) in a little more than a year. Strangly enough, despite the popularity of the book, there are still a whole community of these pick up artists out there, and most of the methods still work, so i was kinda wondering what y'all thought about this? Maybe someone wants to confess to being a "seducer", maybe you think it's all bullsh*t and doesn't work, or maybe you just think it's immoral and wrong.. In any case, discuss! :) ------------- 
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Replies:
Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 07:33
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Haha, I've heard of this guy and others like him. Interesting in a way because it's kinda explained with reference to evolutionary theory. It's kinda flawed though, because it presumes all woman are slaves to their more primitive desires and emotions. Those woman who are, I don't really want.  I suppose most guys could learn a thing or two from it, but all in all, not every guy can be an alpha male and not all woman are mindless sex objects. |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 08:02
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Not all women are slaves to their primitive emotions, but the techniques used by the seduction community all strive to take that primitive part up for air and make her give in to it. Not every guy can be an alpha male, but those who are are definitely gonna have more success with women, work, and almost every social situation imaginable. Alpha is not only about taking space, it is about knowing WHEN to take your space, and to then be able to do so. Do you have a girlfriend, Novalis? If you do, do you think that she would be able to fall for one of the so called "pick up artists"? :) -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 11:46
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I like the general ideas that these guys talk about: learning confidence, humor...holding your head up. I've read quite a few of these things here and there, and became much better at non-verbal communication. It's not what you say, but more importantly how you say it + body language.
The only thing that bothers me is when these fellows with really big ego's say that you should never be "nice" or go out of your way to do considerate things for women (example, Eben Pagan calls this "wussy behavior")...they don't take into account that all people are different and respond, react differently (...to particular "techniques", is what I would say if I was trying waaay too hard
  ). If I want to forego the big-balls act and be nice to someone, that's what I'm damn-well gonna do.Anyway, I haven't read The Game, but I've read some his other stuff, it's pretty darned good. ------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 12:05
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I have one of those at my work, real pick up master... a bit dangerous, if you ask me, not only in terms of chances of getting robbed, temporarily kidnaped for money, diseases, etc., but also dangerous for the soul. I never had problems finding someone to be interested in, but hunting women as if they were extra bonus of a twisted video game... well, the world is diverse... ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 14:05
But yeah, most of them also claim that you should NEVER buy a woman a drink in a bar, because while they may think you're nice, they'll never RESPECT you for it. You can be nice to them all you want, but if you go for the 10's, you should know that they are really used to people being nice to them. You don't stick out, they have dozens of guys every night being nice to them, so when someone aproaches them with nothing but self-confidence and humour, that catches their attention far more. :) Or course, this only applies for the first few times you meet someone, so longer relationships need a far thicker book to work :) -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
jimmy_row wrote:Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 14:34
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Meh, this is just silly. I've seen my female friend sleep around and it didn't do her any good at all. She's got a wonderful boyfriend now and she's a far better person for it too. One partner at a time and no silly one-night stands. Now, flirting is fine, if you're single, but one should only really do that if you're not going to sleep with them, or you plan to seriously get in a relationship with them. -------------   
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 14:41
seducer? ... how about being seduced 
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 18:03
We have to be careful with the "rating" system (c'mon, theyr'e not prog albums
), I hear people talking about meeting "10s", "9s" etc, it just reduces it to a shallow game of judging women only on looks...There are plenty of 10s who are snobby brats (it is kinda fun to 'put them in their place' though) while a "7" or "8" may have a great personality...I try to pick up on the chemistry rather than thinking "woa, this chick is hhhhot!", and in the end they notice that you're deeper than those other "nice" guys who try to manipulate with gifts and complements.------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 18:19
Quite so, it's nice to be seduced on occasions too. Plus it seems most men don't like foreplay. I bet Micky's a foreplay guy though. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 20:39
*spills Arizona Black and White Iced Tea with Ginseng and honey in lap* ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 20:49
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yup it works, if you dont mind f**king sluts and getting aids, its much better for evryone to find someone you really love and who really loves you, sex is cheap, love isn't. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 26 2008 at 20:53
Let's hope you had your trousers (pants to you) on, otherwise you may not got any of the above. -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 00:10
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Micky hits on me all the time. I'm not that cheap, though. At least buy me dinner. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 05:55
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In my youth some of my best friends were been "pick-up artists" - I guess they needed a quiet nerdy guy to make them look good for their plans to work ------------- What? |
. It was always amusing to watch these guys in action, seeing apparently intelligent girls go all ga-ga for these Lotharios as they trotted out some of the most cringe-worthy lines in history, but there was always an underlying feeling of pathos about it. For the thing that struck me is that when you caught them with their guard down they were quite lonely, insecure people who preyed on those insecurities in others, which is ultimately, very sad. In later life they went from relationship to relationship, never really finding happiness for more than a few months at a time - then when their looks faded, they just became bitter, begrudging the happiness of others.Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 06:49
Here you go. A nice four ply chunky knit sweater. 
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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 07:23
Claiming the Fifth Amendment on this one .... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 07:38
 ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 07:39
I think it's very naive and silly so say "oh, just be yourself, it's WRONG to play games" when it is very obvious that girls themselves play games all the time. They're just better at it. Have you ever talked to a girl and suddenly she points to another guy and tells you how hot she thinks he is? Why do you think she does that? Because she thinks you're just her friend? No, she wants to test you, see how you react, if you tell her "naah.. not that much", she'll get that you're really insecure and she'll lose interest. Learning those tricks and knowing a few of your own, how is that wrong? You say she'll notice how you're deeper than the guys who go all "omg, breasts!" (by the way, in pick up terminology, it's "HB10", not just 10.. :) ) and while that is true, that will not end up getting you laid/into a relationship with her. She'll just call you every night for hours for advice on how to get this guy who she TOTALLY has a crush on. Most so called pick up artists say that sure, they entered it for the girls, but what they found was so much more, they learned a lot about themselves, the world and, of course, women. -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 07:46
Those guys you talk about were obviously in it for nothing but the sex and to boast, sounds pretty sad. Whatever you do in life, it is important yo know yourself and what you want, otherwise you just become a slave to your lifestyle. -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 07:56
Even if these 'tricks' did work (I hope not), you'd eventually have to realize that the things you're saying are not coming out of your own mouth, you're not being your true self. I'd rather be alone all my life and be the silly fool that I am than use these methods, losing my self-respect and dignity in the process. If I want to buy a girl a drink, then I will damn well do so!  Maybe I'm taking this thread too seriously, but these pick-up 'artists' really make my blood boil. ------------- 
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Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 08:32
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Lose your self-respect... how about gaining new, reformed, respect towards yourself and women as well? Some people describe it as taking the blue pill in "the Matrix", they may see women in a different light, but it's also a much more true version than the one they held before. It's hard to realise that the girl of your fantasies is really just as gullible as all those other girls, but it also gives an explanation to why she didn't fall for you but instead went for the big, mean gorilla who treats her bad and talks about her like she was an inflatable doll behind her back. Plus, the goal is never to just have a bunch of lines you know work and say them a hundred times every night, the "canned" lines are nothing but support in the beginning, the goal is to become so good that they can be themselves while not falling in the traps and holes women go though all the trouble of laying out in order not to be considered "cheap" and really know they get what they bargained for. I know i am being the only one who has a positive attitude towards the subject at the moment, but hey, that side needs a spokesman too! :) One-sided argiment is dull. -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 11:35
 ...I just don't go with everything these guys in "the community" say because I've watched people lose themselves when what they were really trying to do was become better people. I agree that telling someone to "be themselves" is bad advice; I think it's important to 'find yourself' first, because obviously (if someone isn't successful) being themselves isn't working, they must not be comfortable of aware of themself...so really this isn't "being yourself".
I had to laugh at the red part because it reminds me of myself a few years ago, I was so clueless about this because I didn't grow up around women (no sisters, no girlfriends) and the way I dealt with it was so pathetic. Once you see women in a new light (as you put it) these tests become predictable and easy to navigate around.
------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 12:15
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Well put, jimmy. You have to find yourself first. Neil Strauss writes in "the game" that many of the guys he knew that went into it in their teens or even earlier usually didn't handle it all that well, for many the most important point became power over others and money, and some of them got into religion and said that the "community" was evil and such. :) And yeah, some of the things i have said to girls these last few years that i at the time was either really cute or whatever.... i just can't believe how much stupid can fit into one man's head! :) I have however had lots of experience with girls, but just as friends or sisters, so that's the way i entered whenever i talked to a new girl. Most of my best friends are girls (almost all of them, actually), so it's not like i don't get them, i just never got the romatic side of them before. :) -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 15:40
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I might've misunderstood your initial point (with the threesomes and all). I thought we were talking about dem playaz & how to become one. If these books give you advice on becoming a better, more considerate person, then hey, nothing wrong with that. Not being familiar with this Neil Strauss fellow, I probably shouldn't even be answering this thread anyway. In any case, I do think there is something fundamentally wrong about books that indirectly treat women as pieces of meat that you can rate according to your tastes (even if a lot of men do this). Whether that is the case here, I can't say for sure... BTW, whether girls play games is irrelevant to me - they can test me all they want, I have no interest in learning the answers from some random book. Where's the fun in that? :P -------------
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 15:49
Face it, boys: These guys that claim they can pick up any woman they want just fool themselves. Whenever it does not work they say "ah well, I did not really want her". -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 16:05
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Well. It's kinda both, really. Most of the serious pick up artists (those who like to point out the difference between themselves and the common "players") live by the rule "leave her better than you found her", so there's no real resentment towards women in that way, and the rating is mostly a way to describe someone or a whole group of people in an abbreviated way, and you don't always know their names, so you give them nick names based on their appearances (like calling someone "nose girl" or "blue dress girl"). Sure, sometimes the views on women can be shallow, when you hit on people every day (to practice) you can't have a deeper emotional connection with every single one, but there is never any serious trickery involved. Canned openers, sure, but no "hey, i'm a photographer for moore, you have the potential" or "sleep with me or get a car". And in answer to your last question, Jim, if you know the rules or the game, playing it is much more interesting :) -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 16:13
May be that they fool themselves.. but in that case, Neil Strauss fooled himself good enough to go from virtually no sex at all to regular threesomes in two years.. -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 16:27
have you ever thought of this: it is no big deal to wind up with a new girl each day when you try to pick up any girl you meet; a certain percentage of women will always fall for you. it is simply the law of big numbers. of course those failures are not mentioned in an autobiography; he only speaks of his successes -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 16:45
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I understand your sceptiscism (spelling help on that one, please!), i had them too, i thought it sounded pretty stupid, but i got the book for present this christmas (by my family who obviously was sick of my inability to get laid) and after i started reading i realised that it was pretty good. I mean, it's all social interaction. A groud of people have gone out for several nights a week, on the street and in clubs, and, through trial and error found what is the most effective ways to build attraction in a girl you meet for the first time. Apparently it works. It just does, for some reason. That's not to say women are gullible or stupid, we men fall for the same thing so often that it's pathetic. Think about this: Beautiful women are used to getting attention from men sucking up to them wherever they go, so if someone comes up to them and says "hi... wait, you've got some stuff in your hair, there you go, it's gone.." and then ignores them, they stick out, and the woman will want to try to get his attention because obviously her looks isn't going to do it. That makes him unique, and interesting. -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 17:49
I'd like to see him pull that trick on me ------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 17:54
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Hehe.. yeah. :) By the way, which one is you and which one is friede in that picture you both have as avatars? -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 18:14
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I am the one with the bandana on the head on the left
------------- A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 19:28
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I have no self respect or respect for anyone else
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Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 28 2008 at 04:42
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And you, Josh, could definitely need some classes in pick up, haha!
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: Novalis
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 09:10
As a matter of fact I don't (at the moment), but when the next one comes along I sure as hell hope she isn't as gullible (or to be blunt: stupid) as to fall for one of these guys. It's a silly game really, because if all a woman wants is casual sex, why play hard to get? Why care about status if it's only for one drunken night? And if she's looking for a partner that can take care of her, why fall for a cheesy POA who's only in it for that night? That's not to say all of it is stupid, it may help you understand why some women act the way they do and it may even help you get that special someone to notice you which is necessary for them to get to know you. |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 10:19
1.- I believe attraction should be an spontaneous thing, just like human spontaneous combustion; it just happen, and then you react. No magic trick will be as effective than just be yourself, because you'll have to be yourself eventually. If you show yourself as something else, you'll act during the whole thing. Now, ¿where's my Oscar for the use of the word "yourself"?. 2.- Beauty is a relative concept, a term. You should stablish your relations with others, sexually or not, based on more endurable things. Otherwise, your version of "love" will vanish with age and that is no love at all, wich leads us to the idea of you never experiencing love because of books and stupidity combined. 3.- A man turned into shampoo is, yes, unique and interesting. Not respectable or impressive at all, but unique and interesting. As much as decaffeinated coffe with fake milk and sugarless sugar. Interesting by all means, just not delicious. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 13:09
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------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 13:15
Well.. think of it this way. You might be a total a catch. You're nice, smart, have a big prog collection, and you love cats and babies and can probably play an instrument (most on these boards seem to do), but most people you pass on the street will never know that. That girl who sat next to you on the subway yesterday whom you thought was really pretty and would have liked to get to know better, she will never know that. In order for her to see your true self, you need to penetrate that shield she has which tells her to stay away from strange people on the tube, and for many people, being themselves is just not going to do that. Either they are too shy, or they freeze up whenever a beautiful woman talks to them, or they just don't know what to say and they end up looking like weirdos in her eyes. So what's wrong with learning a few shortcuts? Women also "test" the men in certain ways, especially the really beautiful ones, because they are so used to men chatting them up that they need to make sure you are something special and worth investing in. Some men who are too shy just go to the bar and get really drunk, then they hit on everything that moves. Maybe they "get lucky" and find a girl who's equally drunk and they "score". That's how it usually happens. Many people build life long relationships upon that meeting. That is absolutely mindblowing, the way i see it. I would much rather have the option to choose whoever i want, and to do that it might be useful to learn some tricks, in order to get past the shield she has put up to keep all the sleazy weirdoes out of her life. :) So yo see, it's not a matter of "fooling the stupid bieatches into sex", but more about creating equal conditions for both sexes. Remember, girls have a huge advantage in this area already. -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 14:06
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I can't be visual on this subjects; look tells me nothing about the other. Body language is ok, you can learn a few things about someone's personality based on that, but then again, illusions do exist. No way for me to know if I'm interested before a certain amount of interaction / conversation, wich by no means can be extremely forced. So if I randomly met someone and after a while I think I'm interested, I'll try to get closer, but always being just me, because that is exactly who I am and will ever be. With some variation, but never to the point of being James Bond today and Woody Allen tomorrow. That would be weird. "Real beauty ones"... ¿in wich culture/country and according to wich parameters?. I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful, but, ¿is there an empiric base for those statements?. I've always met people, plain people. Most of them are as boring as hell. Current definition of universal female beauty sems to be very northern oriented. That is cultural invasion, a form of violence, and absurdity. I could writte the regular book shaped reply, but all I can tell you is this: you better delete all that "knowledge" or you'll reach a very advanced age with jpg girlfriend or someting like that. Life is less a bunch of definition and more acts. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 15:00
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Well, i'd love to just say "it's all in the eye of the beholder", and to a certain extent it is, definitely, but you know as well as me that some girls just get chatted up more often than others. That's not to say those are by definition the prettiest ones, but it does mean they have a certain attitude towards men talking to them. It doesn't have to do with beauty as much as self-esteem, but they often go hand in hand. One thing i agree totally with, however, is that you need time to know someone. Often, however, the girl won't give you that time, maybe because you are too blunt or too timid or something else. We all walk the line when talking to a woman we are interested in, we don't say "hello, i want to sleep with you " (or even "i want to marry you and have deep meaningful conversations about life and kids and the future..") but we also don't want to be immediately put in the "friends" box, so it's a balancing act. It's an art, how to act around people, so what if some want to be better at it? Also, try not to see it as social roboting, but rather as a tool. You still have to use it yourself, and once you are confortable enough, you can just skip it altogether. -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 19:27
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You sir are a positivist. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 13:10
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And you sir may be right. :)
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: January 30 2008 at 22:26
 ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: January 31 2008 at 19:55
or to avoid human beings like the plague which seems easier at this point -------------
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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 08:01
 +  ???
------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 10:06
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I wish someone would to this to every single thread.
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'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |