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gsolman View Drop Down
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Points: 15 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2008 at 00:29
Originally posted by bucka001 bucka001 wrote:

Originally posted by gsolman gsolman wrote:

Thank you very much for the explanation. I was thinking of getting the VDGG book since they are my 2nd favorite prog group after Genesis. Is it the one that goes by "The Book (and poster)?"
 
Yes, and since you're a Genesis fan you may be interested to know that we interviewed Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel for it (they're in there quite a bit for the 'start up of Charisma Records' and 'Six Bob tour' sections). The book is available through the VdGG website ( www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk ) and the British Amazon site ( www.amazon.co.uk ). For some reason the Amazon site says they're temporarily out of stock, but we just sent them another box a few days ago...


I guess I'll wait until amazon.com.uk has it back in stock. This weak dollar is killing us yanks though - makes me want to rethink my vacation plans. Anyway I've heard very good things about "The Book." If it is as good as they say it is maybe you should think about doing a book about Genesis. I was just finishing up with the Platts book on Genesis and am feeling a little underwhelmed. His style isn't very creative and there are those gaps in the history that make you feel like you are only getting part of the story of just one side of the argument.
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Points: 681 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2008 at 08:26
Pawn hearts,Still life and Godbluff
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Points: 864 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2008 at 13:05
Originally posted by gsolman gsolman wrote:

I guess I'll wait until amazon.com.uk has it back in stock. This weak dollar is killing us yanks though - makes me want to rethink my vacation plans. Anyway I've heard very good things about "The Book." If it is as good as they say it is maybe you should think about doing a book about Genesis. I was just finishing up with the Platts book on Genesis and am feeling a little underwhelmed. His style isn't very creative and there are those gaps in the history that make you feel like you are only getting part of the story of just one side of the argument.
 
I'm still a bit miffed about Amazon UK having that "temporarily out of stock" notice up there. They do have stock (Phil just sent them another box) and so it should be no problem to order from them. I'm just annoyed because I'm sure that having that notice up there will deter people from checking it out. Amazon is such a huge entity that I'm sure no one's gotten around to taking that notice off yet.
 
For Genesis, the book for me will always be Armando Gallo's "I Know What I Like". Got it in high school back in the day and it was the Genesis bible as far as I was concerned. I Interviewed Armando extensively for the VdGG book, by the way, and he was kind enough to also donate some vintage VdGG photos!


Edited by bucka001 - January 17 2008 at 13:06
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2008 at 13:14
I'm planning on getting the book sometime in the future, maybe over the summer when I don't have to worry about paying for school. 
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bucka001 View Drop Down
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Points: 864 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2008 at 14:04
Originally posted by sean sean wrote:

I can't figure out how this band never got to the same point of popularity as Yes, ELP, etc. They really deserve it. I have yet to hear a song by them that I don't like, and the music is just so great. They deserve more recognition.
 
I agree they deserve more recognition (and at least in the UK and Europe, they get real articles written about them and decent coverage in major newspapers and music magazines, especially since the reunion, although I don't suppose they'll ever have a 'hit').
 
The problem, I think, is Hammill's voice. For many people it is just too harsh and over-the-top (except for when he reins it in and sings in his beautiful falsetto, etc). I personally love his singing, but if there's ever been a deal breaker when I've played VdGG for people, that's it. Except, of course, for my friends who love metal and punk - they seem to be able to deal with the vocal performances on "Arrow", "When She Comes", and others quite well because Hammill sounds very harsh and metal/punk-like on some of those tunes (well, not exactly but you get the drift). I mean, VdGG is one of the only classic prog groups that the punks actually *liked* (Johnny Rotten was a fan, as was Mark E Smith, The Germs, The Dead Milkmen, and several others)
 
Also, the 70's were the era of major solo-ing, flashy displays of musical virtuosity and showmanship. VdGG were phenomenal musicians but not too interested in the "show off" aspects of musical display. Also, Evans didn't have a 30 piece drum kit and Banton wasn't surrounded by 12 different keyboards (a pre-requisite for 70's prog bands). I think their music and image have aged better than Yes, ELP, etc because of this, but at the time the masses wanted more flash.


Edited by bucka001 - January 17 2008 at 14:06
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2008 at 14:45
I understand where you're coming from bucka, and i must add that part of it might be that since they were broken up during the 80's, they couldn't go the route that the likes of Yes and Genesis took and made their sound more appealing to the masses, something I'm quite glad for.
I think part of what makes them so great is that they good do just as much as the other bands but with less, although whether or not they would have used more equipment if they had been able to afford it is up to your discretion to decide, as I don't know them personally.
I agree that they were great musicians, as their music sounds very demanding, but it also sounds naturally that way, not forced. They just showcased their technical prowess in a different form than flashy solos, and I think King Crimson was also similar in that regard. When I've played them for people, they usually just complain that the songs are too long.
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Points: 15 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2008 at 21:50
The madder the music sounded the more he liked it" member of Joy Division (I think B. Sumner) on Ian Curtis' attitude on writing music.

I think its well known regarding Hammill's influence on John Lydon but I see some connections between them and post-punk heroes of J.D.

Why? Well first of all they both come from Manchester. Secondly Ian's vocals became more haunting and powerful as he developed confidence along with the help of their semi-genius producer Martin Hannett.
Lyrically Hammill and Curtis really aren't that far apart, both are introspective, existential, and quite a bit apocalyptic. As far as the music both had quite a bit of dissonance which makes them cult bands by default. Both bands were capable of overpowering the listener emotionally and "physically."

Anyone familiar with both bands want to comment?
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:04
I'm not very familiar with Joy Division, so I don't think I can really comment, though what you say does make sense. 
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:22
However, if I played VdGG to my friend who loves Joy Division, I think he'd hate it.

Maybe I can reel him in by playing that Hammill/Stranglers stuff, he loves Stranglers.
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:26
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

However, if I played VdGG to my friend who loves Joy Division, I think he'd hate it.

Maybe I can reel him in by playing that Hammill/Stranglers stuff, he loves Stranglers.


It's always worth the try. I'm having trouble getting my Dream Theater obsessed friends into this stuff (it's not flashy enough I think), let alone the ones that don't even like any sort of prog.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:30
The only problem is, I don't have access to any Stranglers/Hammill material, although I did hear a track by them both together once on Dick Heath's Radio show.
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:32
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

The only problem is, I don't have access to any Stranglers/Hammill material, although I did hear a track by them both together once on Dick Heath's Radio show.


maybe they'd have some stuff up on youtube, that seems pretty common.
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2008 at 23:11
So, I just bought World Record and The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome today. The most amazing part is that I actually found them in a store, the first time that had ever happened. I was browsing and they didn't have a separate VdGG section, but World Record was mixed in with some other artists albums and I looked around to see if maybe they had misplaced some others and I found The Quiet Zone, so today was quite the day. I listened to both and really loved them, but probably not as much as Pawn Hearts or Still Life. Oh well, at least now I'm about halfway through getting their entire discography. I just have to make some more money to get the rest now. 
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Points: 15 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 22:09
A new VDGG album called Trisector is coming out in April:

http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/


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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2008 at 22:53
Originally posted by gsolman gsolman wrote:

A new VDGG album called Trisector is coming out in April:

http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/




The European audience gets it on March 17th. Cry

They always get the good albums earlier.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2008 at 08:37
Fantastic news!  That's not too far away either.

I just hope it's a great album.
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2008 at 16:36
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Fantastic news!  That's not too far away either.

I just hope it's a great album.


There's a review here:

http://vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/trisector.htm
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The Pessimist View Drop Down
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Points: 3834 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2008 at 13:20
The Least... is by far the easiest to get into because of its lack of complexity. i would start with that.
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