Van Der Graaf Generator
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44067
Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 10:36
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Van Der Graaf Generator
Posted By: sean
Subject: Van Der Graaf Generator
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 10:41
| I know quite a few people around here are fans, and I looked them up because I kept hearing such good things about them. I've listened to all the samples on this site and I'm leaning towards getting Pawn Hearts as my first album. I just want to know your opinions and if you think that is a good choice, since this community is knowledgeable of such things. Once I get your recommendations then all I have to do is find a store that carries them, which I haven't seen at all. |
Replies:
Posted By: glass house
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 10:53
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Pawn Hearts is a great album, so buy that one if you can. H to He, Who Am the Only One is also a big favorite of me. Great songs. |
Posted By: Fassbinder
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 11:54
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Pawn Hearts is a fantastic album, but not such a good choice for the first Van der Graaf Generator album to buy, in my opinion.
I'd suggest to get first one album from the so-called "first stage" -- either The Least We Can Do Is Wave To Each Other or H To He Who Am The Only One and one from the "second stage" -- either Godbluff or Still Life.
Then, being impressed or unimpressed by these two albums, you might want to buy the other album I mentioned from each pair. And only after that I recommend to begin with Pawn Hearts -- by this moment you'll have much more background to appreciate the grandeur of it.
Remember, however, that this is only a suggestion, and the decisive word is your own one. Good luck with VdGG anyway!
Eugene
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 12:12
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I got Pawn Hearts quite late, compared to some of their other albums, so I advice waiting for a while and getting The Least and H to He first.
-------------   
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Posted By: Duncan
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 12:19
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If you're looking for high-class musical psychodrama, get something from the first period. Pawn Hearts is the best of these by miles and you won't be disappointed. Their approach in the second period is, superficially, more stripped down. Incredible, tightly arranged, totally unique songs - that can be every bit as violent and uncompromising as their older stuff - that you'll be listening to for years. Godbluff's my favourite but Still Life and the hugely underrated World Record are five-star efforts too. |
Posted By: Nowhere Man
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 20:54
Heh, I just made a poll about the difference between the two eras. Pawn Hearts was my first VDGG album and I've been obsessed with the band since, but one of the two albums before that one might be a better choice for a first album. Pawn Hearts is still my favorite of their albums, though. ------------- 
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Duncan wrote:Posted By: micky
Date Posted: December 04 2007 at 23:59
bingo... listen to Eugene.... that grandeur to some... is another's disappointing mess 
Pawn Hearts is an album you will probably own.. hell most or nearly all
of us have it... but if you are interested in the group... start
with another... I'd recommend H to He. You might find Pawn Hearts and
it's 'masterpiece' to be the most maddening prog album you own... you
may love it.. knowing at heart... it could have been SO much better...
or you may find it very disappointing... knowing ...yep you
guessed it... it could have been SO much better. Then
again.. you may find it to be a complete waste of time.. and miss out
on some better.. if not idolized here.. albums. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 00:26
Sound advice ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 08:21
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My recommendation is to start with Still Life, as I find this the most accessable (others might disagree), and then work yourself through to the others.
Unless you're into the shrill stuff, I'd stay away from Pawn Hearts until a bit later on.
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Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 08:34
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just get 'em all, including the live albums "Vital" and "Real Time". "Vital" is a very raw album with an unusual VdGG line-up, "Real Time" is an historic document of the VdGG reunion concert from May 6th 2005
-------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 08:55
I would start with the DVD where they play the full Godbluff album and the Plague in studio.
It's best to see the band playing and which musician being responsible for which sounds. Had I seen this when I was 20 instead of 30, I'd have loved this band a decade more.... ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 11:06
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As great an album as Pawn hearts is I agree with everyone who says it's not an ideal first choice. My own recomendation would be Godbluff which is more accesible and every tracks a killer. |
Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 11:09
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As Fassbinder said H to He and Still Life are good starting points. They contain excellent songs, show quite well what is this band about, and they are relatively accesible.
All VDGG studio albums are worth having IMHO, each deserves at least 3 stars.
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Posted By: ProgBagel
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 11:28
Just make sure you can Pawn Hearts after  .
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Posted By: sean
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 16:31
well, i've listened to all the samples on PA and from those it's hard to choose an album, as i enjoy them all. however, the songs i liked best are probably "man-erg" and "childlike faith in childhood's end". also, accessibility is not something that really determines how much i like it, and i usually tend to gravitate towards more inaccessible music anyway. i'll probably end up getting whatever the first one i can find in a store is (so far that's proved impossible) or i'll order one from amazon if i go too long with no luck in stores. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 16:38
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I'm not sure if the deal's still up, but go to Spin CDs and see if you can get the remastered albums for a lot cheaper than most places. They sell three together for £30, I believe. The deal may have finished now though. -------------
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Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 17:17
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Do what most have said, and instead of getting Pawn Hearts first, get H to He, Godbluff or Still Life instead. ------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 18:00
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Pawn Hearts was my first VDGG album and it clicked right away, it's one of my favorite albums!
It's their darkest and most avant-garde album so it's a pretty difficult listen. Godbluff and H to He are generally better starting points, IMO. But if you can handle Pawn Hearts well, then go ahead and buy their other albums as well
 ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: December 05 2007 at 19:40
I think it being the darkest and most avant-garde was why i was liking man-erg so much, although i really liked all the other samples, particularly childlike faith in childhood's end. |
Posted By: Astrodomine
Date Posted: December 06 2007 at 12:50
| I would go with H To He first, then Pawn Hearts and Godbluff. |
Posted By: electricsilence
Date Posted: December 06 2007 at 20:27
| Pawn Hearts first two songs are amongst the best music ever written IMHO. |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: December 06 2007 at 20:34
You have my vote on this too. Lemmings is incredibly well written. Specially the end. Superb. Hammil was born to perform that song. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: December 07 2007 at 10:31
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The least we can do is waeve to eachothers, is the first real VdGG album and the first one i bought and its a great starting album wich i recomend anyone new to the band to get, after that yust buy em chronological. ------------- 
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Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: December 07 2007 at 14:17
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My first VDGG album was First Generation, it was a great starting point for me. Here's the tracklist: 1. Darkness (11/11) 2. Killer 3. Man Erg 4. Theme One 5. Pioneers Over C 6. A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers 7. Refugees I'd also recommend I Prophesy Disaster for tracks from a wider range of albums: 1. Afterwards 2. Necromancer 3. Refugees 4. The Boat of Millions of Years 5. Lemmings (including Cog) 6. W 7. Arrow 8. La Rossa 9. Ship of Fools 10. Medley (Parts of "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" and "The Sleepwalkers") These two compilations include all three tracks from Pawn Hearts. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 13:10
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My first was the debut album, "Aerosol Gray Machine" ('69). I liked it, especially Hammill's voice. It's a very stripped down, embryonic album for VdGG (like most first albums by prog groups, i.e. "From Genesis to Revelation" or "Yes"). I was curious about how their career progressed after this album so I was determined to buy them all (this was in '82 when I first turned onto them). Well, my second purchase (found in a used vinyl shop) was the live album "Vital" ('78). What a shock to the system! I couldn't believe it was the same singer at all (Hammill's voice became more harsh & metal-like as his career progressed through the 70s). Now I love "Vital" (it's a punk/metal/prog album that sounds like no punk/metal/prog you've ever heard) but at the time it was kind of tough!
Anyway, I agree with those who say to start with H to He, Godbluff, or Still Life. Pawn Hearts is considered the 'masterpiece' (although my personal fave is Godbluff; my fave phase is the second one from '75-'78), but it can be heavy going madness to jump straight into... although, that may be why you'd *want* to start with it.
Jim Christopulos
co-author, "Van der Graaf Generator: The Book" ------------- jc |
Posted By: Bastille Dude
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 14:00
Pawn Hearts is a must have and this should be your first. I listen to it every night when I go to bed on repeat, Phenomenal album!
------------- DEATH TO FALSE PROG! |
Posted By: endlessepic
Date Posted: December 12 2007 at 14:29
| I'd say Still Life...it was my third VDGG but it was the one I liked the fastest. Godbluff is awesome and so is Pawn Hearts but those could either make or break your love for VDGG. |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 15:30
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First i borrowed Pawn Hearts, couldn't possibly get into it.
Over a year later, i got H to He & The Quiet Zone.... Started to get into them more and more.
Then i got Pawn Hearts (download
 ), and just loved it more for each listen.Now i absolutely love them!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 16:30
That's a good sign. Man-Erg is the most accessible song on PH though, but if you like that one, you should like the rest of the album as well
 ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 16:38
If you start with second era (in my opinion, the best of the two), Still Life is better than Godbluff. If only because it is almost 10 minutes longer :) ------------- 
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: jimmy_row
Date Posted: December 15 2007 at 21:10
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^I agree on Still Life. When I first got into that one I was having a rough time with H to He, and SL really clicked - the slow organ dirges building into cartharsis...wonderful for a struggling teenager. Childlike Faith... is possibly the best account of the Life After Death issue that I've heard. After I fell in love with that album, H to He sounded much better for some reason, and I picked up Pawn Hearts, it's dense avant-garde tendencies make the perfect compliment to the strong melodies of the first several albums and the strong emotions of the later releases. ------------- Signature Writers Guild on strike |
Posted By: gsolman
Date Posted: December 26 2007 at 22:57
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It would be a tossup between H to He and Godbluff for me. Pawn Hearts pushed the limits too far for me and I'm not sure everyone in the band thought 'Plague' was such a good idea. If you want to see what I mean look for the Godbluff DVD - another good place to start especially if you have a netflix/bb subscription - and see Peter toasting the camera with his glass of red wine and a knowing grin on his face........ There are two really good comprehensive review pages on VDGG that have a POV from the wider, not necessarily prog, music scene: http://starling.rinet.ru/music/vander.htm http://www.johnmcferrinmusicreviews.org/vdgg.htm [who said first posts have to be painful?] |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: December 27 2007 at 16:40
It's true that, initially, the other three band members thought Plague might be a bit too much. In fact, it nearly broke up the band! This is because Hammill had it all figured out in his head but couldn't really articulate it to the other three so they were just sort of thinking, "Wha??"
But eventually they went ahead and sussed it all out and, ultimately, it came to be loved by all four members! ------------- jc |
Posted By: gsolman
Date Posted: January 01 2008 at 11:38
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I'm still not so sure on their liking 'Plague.' I mean they could have included a live version on Real Time if they wanted, especially since the live version on Vital was part of a medley. All I know is that for me at least 'Plague' is not to VDGG what 'Supper's Ready' is to Genesis, who did by the way include a live version of the latter in their boxset. Having just listened to H to He again just solidifies my position as that being their best work. It's got great vocal performances, personal lyrics, and some damn fine hooks. Something like 'Lost' really packs an emotional punch. If it wasn't for Pioneers over C it would be in my top 3 prog albums. |
Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: January 01 2008 at 12:00
Pioneers Over C is the best song on H to He. ------------- "The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time." |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 01 2008 at 18:44
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A B Negative, you're correct. I love Lost almost as much though, it's going to be my break-up song ad naueum, if I ever break-up with my girlfriend. Let's hope that isn't the case. Still Life is my favourite album though, it's perfect. Some people say the drumming isn't as good as earlier albums, but I disagree. The drumming is different for a reason, the music is stripped-down, slower and less-bombastic and therefore often more depressing. The bombastic drumming from Plague isn't required on a song like Still Life, or Pilgrims really (although there are moments, of course). Guy Evans still has it as a drummer. -------------
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: January 02 2008 at 10:19
I interviewed the VdGG members extensively about Pawn Hearts and Plague for the VdGG book I co-wrote. Trust me, they all are very fond of Plague (and the entire Pawn Hearts album).
Plague is considered by fans and critics to be their masterpiece (although, personally, it's not my fave VdGG tune although I do love it). The reason they didn't play it live in the '70s is because Hugh considered it impossible to set up all the different organ sounds and settings in one straight run-through. Even the one time they did perform it for the public (on a Belgian TV show in '72) it was done in sections and edited together by the TV producer/crew. They had to basically re-learn it in the TV studio when they found out they couldn't get out of playing it (the producer/director and crew were all set to film them doing Plague and they set up candles and sparklers for the shoot). So unfamiliar were they with it that Hammill actually had the lyric sheet from Pawn Hearts propped up on his piano so that he could remember and sing the lyrics!
It's all in the book, Chapter 8 "Out of Control, Out of Control" and Chapter 9, "Smoke Bombs, Tear Gas, and Burnout" (there's a couple of fun titles, eh?!)
I think the fact that they decided against it at the Royal Festival Hall (from which the Real Time recording came) was because they never learned to play it in concert back in the day and it was going to be impossible for them to learn it in time for the RFH show. They only had a limited number of rehearsals and time and therefore played songs that were included as part of their sets in the 70s (aside from the two tunes from Present).
Also, to me, the fact that they never played it live makes it even more special than Suppers Ready (which just became a normal part of Genesis' set, like Watcher of the Skies, etc). It sort of gives Plague a kind of mystique, etc - the one tune that couldn't be played live
(... well, okay... they couldn't play Pioneers either with the classic lineup, but that's a different story...) ------------- jc |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 02 2008 at 23:46
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They also rarely touched their earlier material from The Aerosol Grey Machine, but when they did, oh my did it sound good! Squid 1/Squid 2/Octopus is a perfect example of that. Other tracks they didn't play that often live (correct me if I'm wrong), were White Hammer, Lost and W (although they played them in Brescia in 1972, I know - they also played Aquarian there too, at the end of the gig, which is odd, but very intriguing), but not for any reasons like for Plague I don't believe, but probably because they weren't favourable tracks for the band at the time. I don't think they ever did a live version of Whatever Would Robert Have Said? either, but that maybe due to a lack of Bob Fripp... the run-through bonus version without Fripp sounds weak in comparison. -------------
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: January 03 2008 at 10:24
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Hi James, Actually they did Lost, W, and White Hammer quite a bit (there are many live tapes from '71 and '72 with Lost and W, and at least a few from '72 with White Hammer [Brescia being one of them, but there are others]).
The band played "Whatever Robert..." when Nic Potter was in the band (there is a live version of this broadcast on the German TV show Beat Club from '70). I think you're referring to Emperor in his War Room - that's the one that has Fripp on it. According to Guy, they played this at the Royal Festival Hall in '70, so maybe they did do it around that time. I've never heard any live versions of it. And I agree with you that the alternate take that was put on the H to He re-release as a bonus track is lacking without any of Fripp's guitar; that's probably because they chose the final version over that alternate take and decided to have Fripp overdub his guitar on that version. ------------- jc |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 03 2008 at 21:37
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Jim, Oops, yes, I meant "Emperor in his War Room" my mistake. "Whatever Would Robert Have Said?" did indeed have Nic Potter playing on it, but not on bass, as he usually did for VdGG, but on electric guitar. He makes a great job of it in my opinion, even though I've read that was the first time he'd ever picked up an electric guitar. Ah, well I haven't seen many setlists from back in the early '70s, but have heard the Brescia tape (although "German Overalls" doesn't appear on it, even though Hammill mentions it...) and was presently surprised to hear "White Hammer" and "Lost", because they're two of my favourites. Aquarian was a great surprise though. Another track I would have liked to have heard live was Orthenthian Street, but I don't think they ever did that one (again, correct me if I'm wrong). Yes, I've seen and heard the Beat Club version of "Whatever Would Robert Have Said?". -------------
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: January 04 2008 at 10:21
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Nic played bass on Whatever Would... both live and in the studio. On the studio version, he overdubbed the electric guitar part. That was absolutely the first time he ever picked up a guitar. You probably read that in the VdGG book (which I know you bought a while back), it came from an interview I did directly with Nic. I can even hear him now (from the taped interview I did) still sounding incredulous (and me even moreso) that he was able to pull it off. "I just went into some sort of psychic zone and... I don't know... I just did it! Everyone was amazed." ------------- jc |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 04 2008 at 13:06
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Ah, that makes sense. I cannot imagine the track without that guitar part though. Yes, it certainly was yours and Phil's wonderful book I read it in. It is indeed a wonderful thought to know he managed to pull it off so well! -------------
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Posted By: gsolman
Date Posted: January 14 2008 at 23:58
Thank you very much for the explanation. I was thinking of getting the VDGG book since they are my 2nd favorite prog group after Genesis. Is it the one that goes by "The Book (and poster)?" |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:03
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by the way, i'm the person that started this, and even though a lot of people said it'd be best to stay away from pawn hearts because of it's inaccessibility, i went for it for that reason and i absolutely love it. i've had it for a couple weeks now and i've listened to it at least once a day so far. a plague of lighthouse keepers is possible my favourite rock song ever. i love listening to that song alone in the dark. it's so intense. also, i then proceeded to get still life, which i also enjoy a lot, but not as much as pawn hearts. both i had to special order from a local music store because i haven't found their albums anywhere. once money is more readily available i expect to be trying to complete the discography. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:14
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Sean, the thing with Godbluff and Still Life is that they both really hit home with more listens. I love Pawn Hearts (it has Man-Erg on it - the best VdGG song in my opinion), but as an album, Still Life is better and has this hidden charm about it. It's perfect. So keep giving it a spin and hear new charms with it. I am glad you enjoy VdGG so much though, they're one of the best and most consistent bands of any genre of music, in my opinion. They never put out an awful record. -------------
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Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:24
Oh, it's not that I don't enjoy Still Life. I absolutely love it, it's just that at this point Pawn Hearts has better suited my mood and I've enjoyed it more. I can't figure out how this band never got to the same point of popularity as Yes, ELP, etc. They really deserve it. I have yet to hear a song by them that I don't like, and the music is just so great. They deserve more recognition. So, I've been trying to spread the disease amongst everyone I know. Nobody's obsessed like me yet, but a few are liking it well enough. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:27
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Good show, Sean, keep up the excellent work of spreading the disease, it's worth it! If you know any Fish-era Marillion fans, they maybe the easiest to coax. -------------
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Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:36
i actually got lucky and i have a bunch of friends that are into prog, and a few are king crimson obsessed so they're not hard to convince. however the other night i was with the girlfriend's friends who are "normal" closed minded people and i convinced them to let us pick music alternately so with my choice i put on man-erg. they said it was "good" in that insincere voice that lets you know they're just saying it so you don't bother them further. of course i'll try again in the future, maybe with La Rossa or My Room, something more accessible. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:43
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My Room (Waiting for Wonderland) is one of my favourite tracks from Still Life. Having said that, I love every track equally from Still Life, it's just the sax part on My Room almost makes me shed a tear. David Jackson is a genius. I've not got my girlfriend to listen to any VdGG yet, but she used to like Marillion years ago... it may work, but I somehow doubt it. -------------
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Posted By: endlessepic
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:52
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Getting Van Der Graaf Generator "The Book" is a huge bonus for any Van Der Graaf fan. I just recently got it and boy is it good. Packed full of essential information, the only problem was, it was so interesting I read it too fast. Great book. Great read. Get it. -Lucas Holmgren |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:53
it's always worth a try though. and childlike faith is probably my favourite from still life. it's just so moving and the lyrics are amazing. possibly the best thing i have ever read regarding life after death. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:56
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I also love Still Life as a track too, it's the best I've ever read about the fears of immortality. I have The Book and it is indeed an excellent read. I've also met one of the authors (I happened to be sat next to Jim (Bucka001 - see above) at my first VdGG concert and he hadn't quite finished the book at that stage. It's just cool that of all the people at that concert I could have been sat next to, I was sat next to Jim Christopulos. -------------
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Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 01:00
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That is cool. I'll be getting the book in the future for sure. As for immortality, Peter Hammill seems to have a brilliant way to capture everything I could contemplate about it. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 01:02
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I've tried in vain to write poetry and/or lyrics like Hammill, but have failed miserably; that's how good he is. Many of my poems are still abstract and odd though, but nothing like as good as Hammill's. -------------
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Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 01:06
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i've tried as well to write like him. i know i have the ideas in me because i can feel them, i know what i think, but i can't put into words in quite the way he can. he has such a way with words. i'm really hoping i can afford to see him at nearfest, especially if it turns out VdGG isn't going to come to america for their tour, which looks likely. |
Posted By: proger
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 06:42
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try also the Peter hammill's solo carier
------------- ...live for tomorrow... |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 10:11
i've listened to some of the samples on this website, and i think it's quite good. i just wish this music was easier to find in stores. |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 10:29
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I confide in thee, fellow VDGG:ers, that you may help me with my woes. I have a slight problem with "Whatever would Robert have said" off their second LP. Up to that it's all great, and "After the flood" is great, even if a bit longer than i would have wished without much variation. But anyway, the problem i have with "Whatever would robert have said?" is the part where peter hammil sings "look at the flame if you want to..". I find it a bit silly. Please say that i am not the only one. :) Overall, it is a pretty good album. Nowhere near Still life and Godbluff, but i have no doubt "H To He", the next VDGG i plan to get, will be something quite extraordinary. Yay Peter Hammil, he is such a hero. -------------
'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 17:25
Yes, and since you're a Genesis fan you may be interested to know that we interviewed Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel for it (they're in there quite a bit for the 'start up of Charisma Records' and 'Six Bob tour' sections). The book is available through the VdGG website ( http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk - www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk ) and the British Amazon site ( http://www.amazon.co.uk - www.amazon.co.uk ). For some reason the Amazon site says they're temporarily out of stock, but we just sent them another box a few days ago... ------------- jc |
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: January 15 2008 at 18:03
| Just got Godbluff and listened through it for the first time. All seems good so far, and I'm particularly fond of Scorched Earth, Arrow and Sleepwalkers (the lyrics are superb) at the moment. That could all change, though. |
Posted By: gsolman
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 00:29
I guess I'll wait until amazon.com.uk has it back in stock. This weak dollar is killing us yanks though - makes me want to rethink my vacation plans. Anyway I've heard very good things about "The Book." If it is as good as they say it is maybe you should think about doing a book about Genesis. I was just finishing up with the Platts book on Genesis and am feeling a little underwhelmed. His style isn't very creative and there are those gaps in the history that make you feel like you are only getting part of the story of just one side of the argument. |
Posted By: Okocha
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 08:26
| Pawn hearts,Still life and Godbluff |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 13:05
I'm still a bit miffed about Amazon UK having that "temporarily out of stock" notice up there. They do have stock (Phil just sent them another box) and so it should be no problem to order from them. I'm just annoyed because I'm sure that having that notice up there will deter people from checking it out. Amazon is such a huge entity that I'm sure no one's gotten around to taking that notice off yet.
For Genesis, the book for me will always be Armando Gallo's "I Know What I Like". Got it in high school back in the day and it was the Genesis bible as far as I was concerned. I Interviewed Armando extensively for the VdGG book, by the way, and he was kind enough to also donate some vintage VdGG photos! ------------- jc |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 13:14
| I'm planning on getting the book sometime in the future, maybe over the summer when I don't have to worry about paying for school. |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 14:04
I agree they deserve more recognition (and at least in the UK and Europe, they get real articles written about them and decent coverage in major newspapers and music magazines, especially since the reunion, although I don't suppose they'll ever have a 'hit').
The problem, I think, is Hammill's voice. For many people it is just too harsh and over-the-top (except for when he reins it in and sings in his beautiful falsetto, etc). I personally love his singing, but if there's ever been a deal breaker when I've played VdGG for people, that's it. Except, of course, for my friends who love metal and punk - they seem to be able to deal with the vocal performances on "Arrow", "When She Comes", and others quite well because Hammill sounds very harsh and metal/punk-like on some of those tunes (well, not exactly but you get the drift). I mean, VdGG is one of the only classic prog groups that the punks actually *liked* (Johnny Rotten was a fan, as was Mark E Smith, The Germs, The Dead Milkmen, and several others)
Also, the 70's were the era of major solo-ing, flashy displays of musical virtuosity and showmanship. VdGG were phenomenal musicians but not too interested in the "show off" aspects of musical display. Also, Evans didn't have a 30 piece drum kit and Banton wasn't surrounded by 12 different keyboards (a pre-requisite for 70's prog bands). I think their music and image have aged better than Yes, ELP, etc because of this, but at the time the masses wanted more flash. ------------- jc |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 17 2008 at 14:45
|
I understand where you're coming from bucka, and i must add that part of it might be that since they were broken up during the 80's, they couldn't go the route that the likes of Yes and Genesis took and made their sound more appealing to the masses, something I'm quite glad for. I think part of what makes them so great is that they good do just as much as the other bands but with less, although whether or not they would have used more equipment if they had been able to afford it is up to your discretion to decide, as I don't know them personally. I agree that they were great musicians, as their music sounds very demanding, but it also sounds naturally that way, not forced. They just showcased their technical prowess in a different form than flashy solos, and I think King Crimson was also similar in that regard. When I've played them for people, they usually just complain that the songs are too long. |
Posted By: gsolman
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 21:50
|
The madder the music sounded the more he liked it" member of Joy Division (I think B. Sumner) on Ian Curtis' attitude on writing music.
I think its well known regarding Hammill's influence on John Lydon but I see some connections between them and post-punk heroes of J.D. Why? Well first of all they both come from Manchester. Secondly Ian's vocals became more haunting and powerful as he developed confidence along with the help of their semi-genius producer Martin Hannett. Lyrically Hammill and Curtis really aren't that far apart, both are introspective, existential, and quite a bit apocalyptic. As far as the music both had quite a bit of dissonance which makes them cult bands by default. Both bands were capable of overpowering the listener emotionally and "physically." Anyone familiar with both bands want to comment? |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:04
| I'm not very familiar with Joy Division, so I don't think I can really comment, though what you say does make sense. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:22
|
However, if I played VdGG to my friend who loves Joy Division, I think he'd hate it. Maybe I can reel him in by playing that Hammill/Stranglers stuff, he loves Stranglers. -------------
|
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:26
It's always worth the try. I'm having trouble getting my Dream Theater obsessed friends into this stuff (it's not flashy enough I think), let alone the ones that don't even like any sort of prog. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:30
|
The only problem is, I don't have access to any Stranglers/Hammill material, although I did hear a track by them both together once on Dick Heath's Radio show.
-------------
|
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 27 2008 at 22:32
maybe they'd have some stuff up on youtube, that seems pretty common. |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: January 29 2008 at 23:11
| So, I just bought World Record and The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome today. The most amazing part is that I actually found them in a store, the first time that had ever happened. I was browsing and they didn't have a separate VdGG section, but World Record was mixed in with some other artists albums and I looked around to see if maybe they had misplaced some others and I found The Quiet Zone, so today was quite the day. I listened to both and really loved them, but probably not as much as Pawn Hearts or Still Life. Oh well, at least now I'm about halfway through getting their entire discography. I just have to make some more money to get the rest now. |
Posted By: gsolman
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 22:09
|
A new VDGG album called Trisector is coming out in April:
http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/ |
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: February 02 2008 at 22:53
The European audience gets it on March 17th.  They always get the good albums earlier. |
Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 08:37
|
Fantastic news! That's not too far away either. I just hope it's a great album. -------------
|
Posted By: sean
Date Posted: February 03 2008 at 16:36
There's a review here: http://vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/trisector.htm |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: February 04 2008 at 13:20
| The Least... is by far the easiest to get into because of its lack of complexity. i would start with that. |