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bucka001 View Drop Down
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Points: 864 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2008 at 10:21
Nic played bass on Whatever Would... both live and in the studio. On the studio version, he overdubbed the electric guitar part. That was absolutely the first time he ever picked up a guitar. You probably read that in the VdGG book (which I know you bought a while back), it came from an interview I did directly with Nic. I can even hear him now (from the taped interview I did) still sounding incredulous (and me even moreso) that he was able to pull it off. "I just went into some sort of psychic zone and... I don't know... I just did it! Everyone was amazed."
jc
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2008 at 13:06
Ah, that makes sense.  I cannot imagine the track without that guitar part though.

Yes, it certainly was yours and Phil's wonderful book I read it in.  It is indeed a wonderful thought to know he managed to pull it off so well!


Edited by Geck0 - January 04 2008 at 13:07
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Points: 15 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2008 at 23:58
Originally posted by bucka001 bucka001 wrote:

Originally posted by gsolman gsolman wrote:

I'm still not so sure on their liking 'Plague.' I mean they could have included a live version on Real Time if they wanted, especially since the live version on Vital was part of a medley.

All I know is that for me at least 'Plague' is not to VDGG what 'Supper's Ready' is to Genesis, who did by the way include a live version of the latter in their boxset.
 
I interviewed the VdGG members extensively about Pawn Hearts and Plague for the VdGG book I co-wrote. Trust me, they all are very fond of Plague (and the entire Pawn Hearts album).
 
Plague is considered by fans and critics to be their masterpiece (although, personally, it's not my fave VdGG tune although I do love it). The reason they didn't play it live in the '70s is because Hugh considered it impossible to set up all the different organ sounds and settings in one straight run-through. Even the one time they did perform it for the public (on a Belgian TV show in '72) it was done in sections and edited together by the TV producer/crew. They had to basically re-learn it in the TV studio when they found out they couldn't get out of playing it (the producer/director and crew were all set to film them doing Plague and they set up candles and sparklers for the shoot). So unfamiliar were they with it that Hammill actually had the lyric sheet from Pawn Hearts propped up on his piano so that he could remember and sing the lyrics!
 
It's all in the book, Chapter 8 "Out of Control, Out of Control" and Chapter 9, "Smoke Bombs, Tear Gas, and Burnout" (there's a couple of fun titles, eh?!)
 
I think the fact that they decided against it at the Royal Festival Hall (from which the Real Time recording came) was because they never learned to play it in concert back in the day and it was going to be impossible for them to learn it in time for the RFH show. They only had a limited number of rehearsals and time and therefore played songs that were included as part of their sets in the 70s (aside from the two tunes from Present).
 
Also, to me, the fact that they never played it live makes it even more special than Suppers Ready (which just became a normal part of Genesis' set, like Watcher of the Skies, etc). It sort of gives Plague a kind of mystique, etc - the one tune that couldn't be played live
 
(... well, okay... they couldn't play Pioneers either with the classic lineup, but that's a different story...)


Thank you very much for the explanation. I was thinking of getting the VDGG book since they are my 2nd favorite prog group after Genesis. Is it the one that goes by "The Book (and poster)?"
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:03
by the way, i'm the person that started this, and even though a lot of people said it'd be best to stay away from pawn hearts because of it's inaccessibility, i went for it for that reason and i absolutely love it. i've had it for a couple weeks now and i've listened to it at least once a day so far. a plague of lighthouse keepers is possible my favourite rock song ever. i love listening to that song alone in the dark. it's so intense.
also, i then proceeded to get still life, which i also enjoy a lot, but not as much as pawn hearts.
both i had to special order from a local music store because i haven't found their albums anywhere. once money is more readily available i expect to be trying to complete the discography.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:14
Sean, the thing with Godbluff and Still Life is that they both really hit home with more listens.  I love Pawn Hearts (it has Man-Erg on it - the best VdGG song in my opinion), but as an album, Still Life is better and has this hidden charm about it.  It's perfect.

So keep giving it a spin and hear new charms with it.

I am glad you enjoy VdGG so much though, they're one of the best and most consistent bands of any genre of music, in my opinion.  They never put out an awful record.
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:24
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Sean, the thing with Godbluff and Still Life is that they both really hit home with more listens.  I love Pawn Hearts (it has Man-Erg on it - the best VdGG song in my opinion), but as an album, Still Life is better and has this hidden charm about it.  It's perfect.

So keep giving it a spin and hear new charms with it.

I am glad you enjoy VdGG so much though, they're one of the best and most consistent bands of any genre of music, in my opinion.  They never put out an awful record.


Oh, it's not that I don't enjoy Still Life. I absolutely love it, it's just that at this point Pawn Hearts has better suited my mood and I've enjoyed it more.

I can't figure out how this band never got to the same point of popularity as Yes, ELP, etc. They really deserve it. I have yet to hear a song by them that I don't like, and the music is just so great. They deserve more recognition. So, I've been trying to spread the disease amongst everyone I know. Nobody's obsessed like me yet, but a few are liking it well enough.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:27
Good show, Sean, keep up the excellent work of spreading the disease, it's worth it!

If you know any Fish-era Marillion fans, they maybe the easiest to coax.
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:36
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

Good show, Sean, keep up the excellent work of spreading the disease, it's worth it!

If you know any Fish-era Marillion fans, they maybe the easiest to coax.


i actually got lucky and i have a bunch of friends that are into prog, and a few are king crimson obsessed so they're not hard to convince.
however the other night i was with the girlfriend's friends who are "normal" closed minded people and i convinced them to let us pick music alternately so with my choice i put on man-erg. they said it was "good" in that insincere voice that lets you know they're just saying it so you don't bother them further. of course i'll try again in the future, maybe with La Rossa or My Room, something more accessible.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:43
My Room (Waiting for Wonderland) is one of my favourite tracks from Still Life.  Having said that, I love every track equally from Still Life, it's just the sax part on My Room almost makes me shed a tear.  David Jackson is a genius.

I've not got my girlfriend to listen to any VdGG yet, but she used to like Marillion years ago... it may work, but I somehow doubt it.
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Points: 354 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:52
Getting Van Der Graaf Generator "The Book" is a huge bonus for any Van Der Graaf fan. I just recently got it and boy is it good. Packed full of essential information, the only problem was, it was so interesting I read it too fast.
Great book. Great read. Get it.
-Lucas Holmgren
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:53
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

My Room (Waiting for Wonderland) is one of my favourite tracks from Still Life.  Having said that, I love every track equally from Still Life, it's just the sax part on My Room almost makes me shed a tear.  David Jackson is a genius.

I've not got my girlfriend to listen to any VdGG yet, but she used to like Marillion years ago... it may work, but I somehow doubt it.


it's always worth a try though.

and childlike faith is probably my favourite from still life. it's just so moving and the lyrics are amazing. possibly the best thing i have ever read regarding life after death.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 00:56
I also love Still Life as a track too, it's the best I've ever read about the fears of immortality.

I have The Book and it is indeed an excellent read.  I've also met one of the authors (I happened to be sat next to Jim (Bucka001 - see above) at my first VdGG concert and he hadn't quite finished the book at that stage.

It's just cool that of all the people at that concert I could have been sat next to, I was sat next to Jim Christopulos.
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 01:00
That is cool. I'll be getting the book in the future for sure.

As for immortality, Peter Hammill seems to have a brilliant way to capture everything I could contemplate about it.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 01:02
I've tried in vain to write poetry and/or lyrics like Hammill, but have failed miserably; that's how good he is.

Many of my poems are still abstract and odd though, but nothing like as good as Hammill's.
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 01:06
i've tried as well to write like him. i know i have the ideas in me because i can feel them, i know what i think, but i can't put into words in quite the way he can. he has such a way with words.
i'm really hoping i can afford to see him at nearfest, especially if it turns out VdGG isn't going to come to america for their tour, which looks likely.
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proger View Drop Down
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Points: 944 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 06:42
try also the Peter hammill's solo carier
...live for tomorrow...
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sean View Drop Down
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Points: 1155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 10:11
Originally posted by proger proger wrote:

try also the Peter hammill's solo carier


i've listened to some of the samples on this website, and i think it's quite good. i just wish this music was easier to find in stores.
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Evans View Drop Down
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Points: 3004 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 10:29
I confide in thee, fellow VDGG:ers, that you may help me with my woes.
I have a slight problem with "Whatever would Robert have said" off their second LP. Up to that it's all great, and "After the flood" is great, even if a bit longer than i would have wished without much variation. But anyway, the problem i have with "Whatever would robert have said?" is the part where peter hammil sings "look at the flame if you want to..". I find it a bit silly. Please say that i am not the only one. :)

Overall, it is a pretty good album. Nowhere near Still life and Godbluff, but i have no doubt "H To He", the next VDGG i plan to get, will be something quite extraordinary. Yay Peter Hammil, he is such a hero.

'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..'
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bucka001 View Drop Down
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Points: 864 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 17:25
Originally posted by gsolman gsolman wrote:

Thank you very much for the explanation. I was thinking of getting the VDGG book since they are my 2nd favorite prog group after Genesis. Is it the one that goes by "The Book (and poster)?"
 
Yes, and since you're a Genesis fan you may be interested to know that we interviewed Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel for it (they're in there quite a bit for the 'start up of Charisma Records' and 'Six Bob tour' sections). The book is available through the VdGG website ( www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk ) and the British Amazon site ( www.amazon.co.uk ). For some reason the Amazon site says they're temporarily out of stock, but we just sent them another box a few days ago...
jc
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TGM: Orb View Drop Down
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Points: 8052 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2008 at 18:03
Just got Godbluff and listened through it for the first time. All seems good so far, and I'm particularly fond of Scorched Earth, Arrow and Sleepwalkers (the lyrics are superb) at the moment. That could all change, though.
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