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Slartibartfast 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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 Posted: January 09 2008 at 19:07 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Utah Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2007
Location: Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 1014
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Posted: January 11 2008 at 12:56 |
 Aeternus wrote:
both are musical failures
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Esattamente   Perfect description... perfect Commercial success does NOT = musical genius.
Contemporary popularity does NOT = musical genius.
Critical acclaim does NOT = musical genius (read: Rolling Stone Mag Sucks).
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: January 11 2008 at 18:56 |
Kid-A wrote:
I am sick of people giving Nirvana so much grief. So what if they weren't the worlds greatest musicians? Kurt Cobaine learnt to use his guitar as a very effective tool in his songwriting. I'd much rather listen to someone properly utilise his instrument in this way than listen to Petrucci shred through endless solos on obscure scales he learnt in musical college. And not to mention his great voice and songwriting skills. He wrote powerful music, based on valid observations, which spoke to millions of people. Kurt Cobaine was unique. Just check out all these piss-poor 'grunge' acts that have come out since Nirvana. Very few can do what Kurt Cobaine did.
Also, no offence guys, but I bet he's a hell of a better guitarist than most guitarists who hang around on music forums such as this, pretending to be some sort of musical genius. I don't think he ever exactly stretches his guitar-playing abilities with his songs.
And kibble_alex, if your so willing to dismiss them as 'talentless beings', then I challenge you to write a better song than 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' using just 4 power chords. It's very difficult. |
for your info, i find teen spirit very overated and short lived in my music collection. It's dull and boring, and by the way, i have written better songs. but with more chords. minimalism sucks, why play four chords with a reasonable tune (teen spirit) when you can create an all time classic of a song with many chords and vocal lines (Mr Blue Sky)? It's appalling. I'd love to get all the remaining members of Nirvana, all of greenday, blink 182 and any other band that thinks theyre clever with their powerchord dictionary into a room and repeat that one scene out of Ghost Ship. You know, the one where theyre all dancing and a long Black & Decker Scorpion saw slices them in half? Ah, the thought of it makes me cry with joy...
sorry to be really macabre, heartless and sinister, but it has to be said. You're PROGGERS for christ sake! you strive for sophisticated rock music, not that dumb sh*t that dominates three quarters of Kerrang nowadays! Jesus, put on some Van Der Graaf or Floyd or Dream Theatre or Porcupine Tree or Genesis or Crimson or something like that!
Edited by kibble_alex - January 11 2008 at 18:57
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Petrovsk Mizinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
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Posted: January 11 2008 at 22:16 |
[/QUOTE] for your info, i find teen spirit very overated and short lived in my music collection. It's dull and boring, and by the way, i have written better songs. but with more chords. minimalism sucks, why play four chords with a reasonable tune (teen spirit) when you can create an all time classic of a song with many chords and vocal lines (Mr Blue Sky)? It's appalling. I'd love to get all the remaining members of Nirvana, all of greenday, blink 182 and any other band that thinks theyre clever with their powerchord dictionary into a room and repeat that one scene out of Ghost Ship. You know, the one where theyre all dancing and a long Black & Decker Scorpion saw slices them in half? Ah, the thought of it makes me cry with joy... sorry to be really macabre, heartless and sinister, but it has to be said. You're PROGGERS for christ sake! you strive for sophisticated rock music, not that dumb sh*t that dominates three quarters of Kerrang nowadays! Jesus, put on some Van Der Graaf or Floyd or Dream Theatre or Porcupine Tree or Genesis or Crimson or something like that![/QUOTE]
While i can agree with some of that, like nirvana being ovely simplistic and not particularly emotive music at all, to say that minimalism sucks, particularly on a website like this, is a bit too much IMO. Think about the fact there are many Prog bands, in which minimalism is at the core of their sound, but what sets these prog bands that have a minimalist nature, is that they apply their minimalism in a complex and challenging way. For guitarists out there, check out Buckethead's song, Soothsayer. It is for the most part, a four chord song that goes for just over 9mins, yet displays his incredible virtuosity and power to emote through the electric guitar. Chances are, many people would be so blown away by the playing on that song, his ability to have written such amazing guitar parts over 4 power chords, they wouldn't change a thing on that song. Minimalistc song structure, with absolutely mind blowing virtuosity and true feeling and soul, and im sure there are many others out there that have done exactly the same to great effect.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: January 11 2008 at 22:46 |
Utah Man wrote:
Aeternus wrote:
both are musical failures
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Esattamente
Perfect description... perfect
Commercial success does NOT = musical genius.
Contemporary popularity does NOT = musical genius.
Critical acclaim does NOT = musical genius (read: Rolling Stone Mag Sucks).
.
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Let's rephrase:
Commercial failure does NOT = musical genius (many "obscure" band SUCK)
Contemporary obscurity does NOT = musical genius. (again, many "obscure" bands SUCK)
Critical disdain does NOT = musical genius (many commercial bands have also been good bands..) (I agree on the Roll. Ston. mag thing though.... but NOT because they liked Nirvana, but because they're supposed to be a rock mag and they feauture hip hop artists and other things).
At the same time:
commercial success means millions of "idiots" love the music, even intellectual "idiots" (as was the case with grunge), so maybe it's a case of... universal stupidity?
By the way: it's BRITNEY.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: January 12 2008 at 12:16 |
HughesJB4 wrote:
for your info, i find teen spirit very overated and short lived in my music collection. It's dull and boring, and by the way, i have written better songs. but with more chords. minimalism sucks, why play four chords with a reasonable tune (teen spirit) when you can create an all time classic of a song with many chords and vocal lines (Mr Blue Sky)? It's appalling. I'd love to get all the remaining members of Nirvana, all of greenday, blink 182 and any other band that thinks theyre clever with their powerchord dictionary into a room and repeat that one scene out of Ghost Ship. You know, the one where theyre all dancing and a long Black & Decker Scorpion saw slices them in half? Ah, the thought of it makes me cry with joy...
sorry to be really macabre, heartless and sinister, but it has to be said. You're PROGGERS for christ sake! you strive for sophisticated rock music, not that dumb sh*t that dominates three quarters of Kerrang nowadays! Jesus, put on some Van Der Graaf or Floyd or Dream Theatre or Porcupine Tree or Genesis or Crimson or something like that! |
While i can agree with some of that, like nirvana being ovely simplistic and not particularly emotive music at all, to say that minimalism sucks, particularly on a website like this, is a bit too much IMO. Think about the fact there are many Prog bands, in which minimalism is at the core of their sound, but what sets these prog bands that have a minimalist nature, is that they apply their minimalism in a complex and challenging way. For guitarists out there, check out Buckethead's song, Soothsayer. It is for the most part, a four chord song that goes for just over 9mins, yet displays his incredible virtuosity and power to emote through the electric guitar. Chances are, many people would be so blown away by the playing on that song, his ability to have written such amazing guitar parts over 4 power chords, they wouldn't change a thing on that song. Minimalistc song structure, with absolutely mind blowing virtuosity and true feeling and soul, and im sure there are many others out there that have done exactly the same to great effect.
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i see where you are coming from, but but if buckethead is playing some face melting guitar, then that really isn't minimalism.And although some prog bands thrive over minimalism (King Crimson - Starless), they bring dynamic and interesting things within the music. Nirvana just play four chords throughout the whole of Teen Spirit, and nothing interesting happens! I take back the fact that minimalism generally sucks. It only sucks when used improperly, like some bands. And the fact that they use that kind of "songwriting" throughout the whole of their career? Pfft! makes me sick!
Edited by kibble_alex - January 12 2008 at 12:17
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