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MikeEnRegalia
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Topic: Announcing the Prog-Metal split Posted: October 22 2007 at 01:59 |
I'm happy to announce that M@x has approved of the PM team's proposal to split Prog Metal into three separate categories: - Progressive Metal
- Classic Progressive Metal - Modern (Eclectic) Progressive Metal - Prog Power Metal
- Extreme/Tech Prog Metal
- Avant-Garde Prog Metal - Progressive Thrash Metal - Progressive Death Metal - Progressive Black Metal - Progressive Technical Metal - Prog Metal Fusion
- Experimental/Post-Metal
- Experimental Metal - Art Metal - Post Sludge Metal - (Eclectic) Post Metal
The sub genres of these three new genres will *not* be implemented as clickable genres, but they're useful to understand which band goes where. But the new genre definitions which I'm preparing will contain descriptions and key albums for all of them. Edit: I added this "FAQ" section to answer questions asked in this thread (and elsewhere): - Q: I don't agree with the new genre definitions ... where do I send complaints to?
A: You can post them here. The current definitions are only a first draft, and they are currently being worked at. Please be patient while we're trying to sort them out ... this is a work done in stages:
1.) writing preliminary definitions 2.) implementing the split and moving most of the bands 3.) improving the definitions and fine-tune the band lists.
- Q: Opeth aren't Post-Metal ... what are they doing in Experimental/Post-Metal?
A: All the new categories are combinations of various styles/types of music. The "/" in the label means "and/or", so "Experimental/Post-Metal" means "Experimental (Prog) Metal and/or Post-Metal". Grouping them together doesn't mean that they represent one homogenous style. We simply had to find a compromise between creating too many new categories and keeping all the bands in one big category, so we chose to combine some of the categories which "get along" well. In a nutshell we made these combinations: classic+power+melodic (Prog Metal), technical+avant+extreme+fusion (Tech/Extreme), experimental+art+post (Experimental/Post).
- Q: Does the introduction of new categories mean that the band admission procedure of the PMT will change ... will you become more inclusive?
A: No, definitely not. Bands from all the subgenres listed above are already in the archives, and the standards for band admissions will not be affected by the split. - Q: Will there be further splits of these three categories in the future?
A: I don't think that's likely. Over the last two years there has been much discussion about how to split the genre, and this is the result. *Maybe* at some point in the future the band lists of the new genre might indicate further splits, but the more categories there are the more difficult it becomes to decide which band to put where, and more cases of bands arise which really belong to several categories equally. - Q: I'm only seeing two new categories with none or only a few band entries ...
A: We'll shortly move most of the bands to their new homes ... please try to be patioent. After these first moves it will probably take a while longer until all the moves are final ... there will be many discussions among the PM team members, and of course you're all welcome to post suggestions or complaints, as long as they're constructive. - Q: Is not progressive tech metal a little redundant? It should just be tech
metal and drop the progressive part.
A:
If we dropped the word "Prog" from that label then people would read it
and think it contained non-prog "Technical Metal" bands. I think there
is a fine line between progressive technical and non-prog technical
bands ... not all technical bands are automatically prog, and that's
why the word must stay. An example for non-prog technical bands would
be - most Death Metal bands actually. If you look at bands like
Cryptopsy, Nile or related bands like In Flames, Children of Bodom etc.
then it's clear that they're quite technical, yet they aren't prog. - Q: I was surprised not to see Opeth in Extreme metal... but in
Experimental/Post... what? I mean Edge of Sanity is in Extreme and they
surely are the band that has more things in common with Opeth than any
other band in this site.
A:
Actually I think that Edge of Sanity aren't really similar to Opeth
except for the vocals. Of course Opeth would also fit in Extreme/Tech
*because* of the vocals, but we tried to make a musical distinction. I
know that Mikael himself has called his music Death Metal in
interviews. But not *all* Death Metal influenced bands must
automatically go to Extreme/Tech. Likewise there are a few Black Metal
influenced bands which make more sense in Experimental/Post, like for
example Agalloch. - Q: What about Sieges Even and/or Zero Hour ... they're quite technical, shouldn't they go to Extreme/Tech?
A:
Sieges Even are one of the classic prog metal bands and will stay in
Progressive Metal. It should be noted that of course many bands from
Progressive Metal get quite technical at times. But if you compare
Sieges Even, Zero Hour or Dream Theater to bands like Meshuggah, Cynic
or Spiral Architect it should be evident that they're much more
melodic, well-rounded in terms of influences and generally less extreme
and more accessible, and that's why they belong in Progressive Metal.
What I said here will also be added to the genre descriptions soon. - Q: Opeth and Tool are in Post/experimental?!?!?!?!?! BAD move! Lets keep them in PM so the other bands can shine!
A:
Obviously many of the bands in Extreme/Tech and Experimental/Post are
dramatically underreviewed. Currently they're outshined by Opeth and
Tool who are simply much more well known, but you can change that
easily by writing reviews!
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 24 2007 at 02:29
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Abstrakt
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Joined: August 18 2005
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 02:02 |
That'll be useful!
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 2755
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 02:19 |
If I cared at all about prog metal, I'd be pretty darn happy.
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JayDee
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 02:25 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
If I cared at all about prog metal, I'd be pretty darn happy. |
So it seems like you don't, so don't sweat it. Why do these people even bother posting? Sheeesh.
Great to hear/read that Mike. Will check out the list soon as it's out.
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maups2
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 12 2006
Location: Canada
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Points: 61
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 02:42 |
Nice!
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bhikkhu
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Joined: April 06 2006
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 02:44 |
It still doesn't make sense to me, but O.K.
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toolis
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Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 02:50 |
i don't know if it'll be usefull but i agree with the categorizations...
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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Atavachron
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 03:22 |
good work Mike and PM Team... and kudos to M@x for taking the leap
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 03:28 |
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
If I cared at all about prog metal, I'd be pretty darn happy. |
So it seems like you don't, so don't sweat it. Why do these people even bother posting? Sheeesh.
Great to hear/read that Mike. Will check out the list soon as it's out. |
I bothered to post because I appreciate the fact that PA is continuously working to improve the site, despite the fact that it is in area which I could care less about.
Since my post is positive and your post is negative, I can't help but wonder why you bother to post?
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JayDee
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 03:53 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
Majestic_Mayhem wrote:
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
If I cared at all about prog metal, I'd be pretty darn happy. |
So it seems like you don't, so don't sweat it. Why do these people even bother posting? Sheeesh.
Great to hear/read that Mike. Will check out the list soon as it's out. |
I bothered to post because I appreciate the fact that PA is continuously working to improve the site, despite the fact that it is in area which I could care less about.
Since my post is positive and your post is negative, I can't help but wonder why you bother to post? |
Now that would be a better way to rephrase what you mean. I never found the word appreciate on your original post.
I post on almost every progressive metal and related threads on this site and I do care much for the genre.
If I don't care about something I won't dare lift a finger to do or say something about it. I don't know about you.
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 03:57 |
Congratulations to the team, great work! I have recently found some prog-metal to my tastes, and the new system will help me in making follow-ups. Thanks!
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Raff
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 04:14 |
Please stop bickering.... This is becoming a bit tiresome. Since I have supported the split from the start, I can't but be very happy about this development which will definitely be positive for the site. I wish the PM team all the best for their upcoming job of splitting the genre, as I know how long it can take!
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JayDee
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Joined: September 07 2005
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 04:20 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Please stop bickering.... This is becoming a bit tiresome.
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Sorry about that Ms. Raf. I just didn't get his point, and can't help but react.
Anyways, will there be any list of those bands within their respective genres? Where can we find them?
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Lanor
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 28 2007
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 32
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 04:34 |
bhikkhu wrote:
It still doesn't make sense to me, but O.K. |
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Casartelli
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 401
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 04:55 |
Positive about the split. Good luck on the job!
Edited by Casartelli - October 22 2007 at 04:55
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mystic fred
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Joined: March 13 2006
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 05:03 |
Post Sludge Metal... i gotta hear some of that !
good list, it brings order to a very complcated genre
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Prog Archives Tour Van
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 05:15 |
I don't know very much prog metal but I reckon the new sub-categories will make it easier to find music I like. Before, the prog metal genre seemed too wide and sprawling for me to make any sense of it. Thanks for all your hard work!
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Hatters
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 466
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 05:34 |
I don't under stand why Avant-Garde metal isn't in the Experimental section but nevermind. It would be nice to see some examples of the different bands in the different sections.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Joined: April 22 2005
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 06:05 |
^ these two genres are a bit of a problem ... the main difference is that
Extreme/Tech Prog Metal / Avant-Garde Progressive Metal
is for the rather technical and quirky bands like Behold...the Arctopus and Unexpect, while
Experimental/Post-Metal / Experimental Prog Metal
is for those bands which are less technical, a bit more calm (less quirky) and sometimes related to Post Metal. An obvious example would be Maudlin of the Well.
It's a bit like Experimental/Post-Rock vs. RIO/Avant-Prog.
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: October 22 2007 at 06:32 |
that's great news... and a benefit to the site indeed.
Good job Mike and the rest of the PMT
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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