Clouds/1-2-3

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

 Dick Heath wrote:

 Certif1ed wrote:

I have this from my source;
"When the Premiers (the band's name before 1-2-3) were taken to London to record by Cyril Stapleton, the engineer at Radio Luxembourg, Stewart 'Stu' Francis had also worked at Levy studios and had a tape of Paul Simon, who had recorded there in 1965. Stu became a friend of the band, and was present at all the London gigs during the 1-2-3 years. Out of the recordings, Billy (Ritchie) chose 'The Sound of Silence' and 'America'. Hence 1-2-3 played both in 1966, some two years before the world was aware of them."

Does this story ring true? Sure, bands were picking up on the likesDylan, e.g. from bootleg recordings that  were to become the Basement Tapes, but Dylan was the guv'nor, universally known. Why would Paul Simon, known in the limited Biritish folk circles,  be picked out from allsorts of demos, to be played to a yet to be successful British pop group????????????? 

S&G established themselves with the song "Sound of Silence" among the same folk/rock cirles as Dylan - but they an were up and coming act in 1966, despite having worked for many, many years previously. Notably, S&G used Dylan's backing band for "Sound of Silence" (the LP).

Recording sessions for "Bookends" started in 1966 (at Levys Studios) - or at least, material that ended up on Bookends was recorded from the autumn of 1966 through to January 1968

1-2-3, or the Premiers, as they were then known, were up and coming - Cyril Stapleton was well known in easy-listening circles and probably had some influence on the decision - this nice, wholesome unheard-of American duo wrote great songs, while the Premiers had real problems writing their own material, but had a certain style in their playing.

This is obviously my own personal guesswork, not an attempt to put spin on the story, rather ekeing out the few strands of credibility that are in it. 

I see the holes in the story too - and there are so many little inconsistencies in the detail; On the date I've been given for the recording, there was no gig at the Marquee - but there was one a few days earlier (or later - can't be bothered to check - the point is, the date is wrong).

Clouds' website also claims a "headline residency" at the Marquee, yet the flyers I've found from the time put 1-2-3 in the middle of a fairly long list for the closest date, and support slots at best for later in the year.

 Easy Money wrote:

  Thanks for sharing the recording, you asked for some feedback so here it is: I've been playing kybds professionally for 20 plus years and have listened to all kinds of kybdsts in that time. Billie's playing is OK, but his timing is very rushed, which probably cut him from a lot of pro work other than playing his own music. I think his tastes are very corny and his musical pastiches have no logic except look at what I can do. He sounds a lot like guys who work in music stores. Unfortunately its that kind of 'everything and the kitchen sink' musical style that mars a lot of Emmerson's work. I think Brian Auger and Mike Ratledge were both coming from a more mature musical expression at this time. As for who came first Billie or Keith I have no idea.

I've been playing keyboards a while too, and agree with much of what you're saying - but I can hear an instinctive logic that makes me shy away from the "kitchen sink" criticism as a general thing - my feeling is that it's rushed because he can't play the ideas he's having very well due to lack of academic training. 

If you listen to the full-length Yes version, there seem to be passages that Yes have taken from this version - the 1-2-3 ending, for example, appears to be used at the beginning in Yes' version. Concurrence?

The incoporation of "Jesu, bleibet meine Freude" (Bach) in the 1-2-3 version isn't as contrived as it first seems, on subsequent listens - for example. The logical musical flow here seems pretty good, even if the execution is off.

I can't think of many "rock" acts playing in late 1966/early 1967 that took the improvised feel and arrangement to this kind of level - context is important here, as mid 1967 saw an explosion in this sort of invention, including the formation of The Nice... 

Much of what was happening at the time in Rock was pure rather than structured improv, and structured improv is what forms the basis of many of the bands of the "progressive music" movement (including Pink Floyd - Saucerful of Secrets has a 4-part structure - designed as a kind of architectural blueprint, I seem to remember reading somewhere) - and crucially, early Prog Rock bands.

The structured improv here is primitive - but I think it serves well as Prog Rock roots - if, indeed, it turns out to be 100% genuine.

*New strand of research - structured improv in rock - preferably pre-dating 1966.*

Edited by Certif1ed - October 01 2007 at 08:34