Clouds/1-2-3

Does anyone remember - or know?

Edited by Certif1ed - September 21 2007 at 16:56

I've read what's on Wikipedia - and a whole load of other links too, most of which refer to Clouds' website, www.cloudsmusic,com, which contains transcripts of articles, and a letter from David Bowie in 1967 - but there's still nothing conclusive.

Don't quote me on this, but the site feels incredibly PR'ed up.  Robert Fripp being hugely influenced by a band with no guitars?  Tons of long, well-written, praising letters in the guestbook from people who were there, when current bands with much more awareness can't nick half the attention? 

If you go to their external links page, you'll notice tons of Wikipedia articles that support their position:  and all the articles that mention this band were edited in around the same time from the same person (this month, to boot).  All the sources are what you'd call 'practically uncheckable' as well.  I call bullsh*t.

Keith Emerson was in R & B acts The T-Bones and The V.I.P.'s in the mid 60s before he ended up in The Nice. According to Wikipedia, the thing that turned Emerson onto the organ as an instrument was hearing Brother Jack McDuff's 'Rock Candy'; there is a testament to this track's influence on Keith of sorts. I once owned an album which documented a 1969 jam session (it was released most widely called 'Music From Free Creek', with people like Dr John, Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck and many others- some under pseudonyms) and Keith was on that actually playing 'Rock Candy'.

I'm not sure that keyboard players as a main instrument were all that rare, personally- there had already been people like Brian Auger, Georgie Fame and Graham Bond around; possibly even the early days of Soft Machine with Mike Ratledge. I'd imagine these were probably as influential on Emerson in some way as Billy Ritchie apparently was. There's also someone called Wynder K.Frog who was Mick Weaver under a pseudonym who seems to have been one of the first British people (I think he was the first!) to release an album on Island, who played the organ and dealt in organ-driven instrumentals.

Edited by salmacis - September 26 2007 at 10:41

Whatever happened to Billy Ritchie, is he still around ?

On the plus side, I think a lot of people will be interested in what you find out.

Certif1ed wrote:   I've been told that the stuff I've heard (a live performance of Simon and Garfunkel's "America")  was put together in 1966, and the performance was Saturday March 18th, 1967 - which would put them ahead of the Nice.     My quesion now is, if the band put the arrangement together in 1966, and performed it in March 1967, where did they get the Tardis from?   Simon and Garfunkel's "Bookends" was released on April 3rd 1968, and "America" wasn't released as a single until 1972 - the year after Yes covered it.   It's a very good cover, but...

  Hoax, confirmed?

 

Certif1ed wrote:   Well, let's sum up what we know;   1. The band existed and played the Marquee at the right time and, became Clouds in 1968.   2. Clouds were featured on TWO major label promotion compilations alongside great progressive artists including King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Traffic, Nick Drake and Spooky Tooth.   3. There are numerous reports of keyboardist Billy Ritchie doing all these things live that were influential and mind-blowingly different.   4. The recordings I have listened to, even if they turn out to be later than claimed, are significantly progressive enough to warrant some attention - the music contains clear jazz and classical influences, and some really neat tricks with tempo and time signature alteration - and it rocks.   5. Everything I've read on the bands' website exaggerates somewhat - but the exaggerations seem more attention-grabbing than overly excessive.     The jury is currently out...

It reads really funny.  The testimonials on the website do seem quite attention-grabbing and freakishly specific for something with no concrete evidence of doing more than, well, existing.  Did In The Court even -have- an organ, btw? 

But in all seriousness, it feels like this:  The band can somewhat prove that it existed pre-prog.  The band had an organist, who when faced with a drummer and a bassist, most likely took the lead.  David Bowie seems to like them.

Now, there are no verifiable recordings of this group.  What recordings are surfacing are definitely suspect in origin and nature, as I understand, as well as time period. 

This band 'became' Clouds, who supposedly took a more commercial leaning because they found little success with their supposedly incredible groundbreaking prog.

What if the real story reads more like this?  1-2-3 were a decent, if relatively unmemorable psychedelic band in the late 60's, who had no official recordings, despite playing at the Marquee.  They quickly went downhill, their label regulating them to play cabarets and such.  Later influenced by proto-prog and prog acts springing up around them, they reformed as Clouds and tried their hand at this new prog style, but as evidenced by the recordings that -do- exist, they did not meet success.

This rendition also fits with the hard facts that exist, and is in all honesty much more likely.

So let's say that it's the 21st century.  Billy Ritchie is upset, because he's not even a has-been; he's a never-was.  He's looking back at 1-2-3 and Clouds and wondering where he went wrong.  After contemplating it, he realizes that there's so -little- legacy of his output that with some creative twists, he can rewrite the entire story, and become the hero to his peers who surpassed him by so far, so long ago.

Considering cloudsmusic.com is owned and run by one Billy Ritchie, I'd say that it's pretty obvious how this played out, yes? 


Edited by Man Overboard - September 27 2007 at 04:31

I think Mr. Heath needs to check this out 

As for classical/rock fusions, one of my personal favourites is the 1967 hit by The Move, 'Night Of Fear'. I always felt 'Nutrocker' is fun but something of a novelty record (of course, it turns up at the end of ELP's 'Pictures...'), but 'Night Of Fear' turns a section from '1812 Overture' into a bona fide pop song with quintessential psychedelic lyrics. It's one of my favourite singles of all time.