New Category, Post metal/ Sludge or Doom

Agree with Post-Metal genre idea

Time Signature wrote: Is there really such a genre as post metal? If yes, what is it?

It depends on how much you like artists. I'd personally join rogether RIO/Avant/Zeuhl and Jazz/Fusion as I'm a total n00b in them and rarely enjoying music from those bands . I'd also add Indo-Prog to Prog Folk and would name this mixture an Ethnic Prog


Post-Metal are PELICAN, THE MORNINGSIDE, GIANT SQUID, GRAYCEON, RED SPAROWES, RUSSIAN CIRCLES, ISIS, NEUROSIS, CULT OF LUNA, AGALLOCH and many others. I suppose 1/5 of all Prog-Metal bands on PA would fit here . Almost a hundred of bands is quite enough for a new category, eh?


Edited by Prog-jester - September 18 2007 at 10:16

darqdean wrote: Sub dividing Prog Metal is a good idea: Neurosis, Opeth and Dream Theater lumped together does not compute, but I feel six is too many (even though the reality is probably more than six ) - it becomes too esoteric and subjective. Would it not be better to start small, say 3, and see how it works out?

Of course. This would also be possible:

• Prog Metal (the traditional kind, combining Power + Melodic from my previous example)
• Tech/Extreme Prog Metal (Tech/Math + Extreme)
• Post/Avant Prog Metal

Or this:

• Prog Metal
• Tech/Avant/Extreme Prog Metal
• Post Metal

But I don't think it makes much of a difference whether you have 3 or 6 sub genres - as long as they're all valid and there are enough bands which naturally fit in each of them. Of course there would be a few bands which fit equally well in several of these genres - Atheist were mentioned. For these some rules would have to be determined (e.g. "Extreme" overrules "Tech").


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 18 2007 at 10:21

^ It would be like 6 vs. 15 ... 

Philéas wrote: Stop calling it Post-Metal please. It isn't Post-Metal because it still is Metal. "Post" isn't a style indicator.

Ah, but if it is metallised Post Rock then it is valid.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: jikai55 wrote: Yes, I feel the post-metal genre is neccessary! Remember, not all Sludge bands are Post-Metal bands! Well, if you were breaking down Prog Metal, heres some categories I could recommend: Post-Metal (Isis, Neurosis...) Avant-Garde Metal (Subterranean Masquerade, Unexpect...) Jazz Metal/Tech Metal (Cynic, Atheist, Meshuggah...) And keep the category 'Progressive Metal' for bands like DT and Fates Warning. Just my ideas. That's not very far from what we have in mind in the PMT ... but there are two more candidates for new categories IMO: Prog Power Metal (Kamelot, Symphony X, Nightwish, Rhapsody, ... all bands with a focus on Power Metal (both European/American style)) Extreme Prog Metal (Opeth, Meshuggah, Death, Atheist, Enslaved, ... all bands based in extreme metal genres like Death, Black, Thrash etc) As a result the bands remaining in Prog Metal would all be melodic and symphonic, So it might be renamed to Melodic Prog Metal: Melodic Prog Metal Prog Power Metal Extreme Prog Metal Post Metal Avant Metal Tech/Math Metal

The only thing about your list Mike is that tech/math metal and extreme usually coincide. I'm not saying Planet X and Spastic Ink are extreme, but bands like Cynic, Atheist, Meshuggah, Special Defects, and a host of others could easily fit into both. I'm not on the PMT, but it seems like you guys would just make headaches for yourselves. Still, I'm all in favor of splitting the ever-growing metal genre.

I'm starting to think all these subgenres are just silly and confusing.

Splitting the prog metal genres makes a lot of sense to me, as it stands prog metal is just like art rock used to be so splitting it can only be a good thing. Hopefully the PM Team can get this sorted relatively quickly.

The T wrote: No, it's not ahything archives.. It's still progressive music that needs to be subgenre-ized for easier navigation, research, and more coherence for the listener, for the newbie and the regular fan.   Bands in prog metal:   Dream Theater Kayo Dot Death Unexpect Messhuggah   Other than the metal riffing and some minor elements, you can't say these 5 are a lot alike, are they?   Prog-metal should have more going into the proto-genre and the related genre.. I can't agree with only ONE metal band in prog related, and countless of pseudo-prog rock bands.... there ARE metal bands that are related to prog, if not full blown prog-metal... Also, at least two bands (rejected, I know, but I'll say it anyway) are important in the formation of the prog-metal genre: the San Francisco band (those who know will understand) and Mercyful fate...(and a few more)....OK, I understand this is not "metal archives" (there's a site with that name) but if we have prog-metal here, let's respect it. There ARE prog-related metal bands, but nothing gets in, whereas any pseudo emo rock with some long song gets added..I'm sorry for this rant, it just doesn't make me happy.

True ... the hardest obstacle to overcome is sometimes a band's popularity. It sometimes seems that many here cannot accept that SOME prog bands can & have actually achieved commercial AND critical success - Yes, Crimson, Rush, Genesis, Tull, Floyd, Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree, and many others. Some are multi-platinum, some are mainstream, and more than a few enjoy a decent level of success that has allowed them to build a career or still enjoy a certain cache many years after their glory days. Gentle Giant still has a very dedicated fan base. Heck, even Gryphon is putting together a new album due to fans' continuing interest in their music. PFM's recent albums always seem to cause excitement when news appears that a new one is on the way.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ maybe you should be more careful laplace ... I've read many of your reviews and posts and while I respect your opinion, you often make it sound like the things you say are fact. They're not ... the existence of this very thread proves you wrong for example ("terribly rigid" - Post Metal is a prime example for unusual metal bands).

Woohoo. Mike bowls a perfect strike, and puts Laplace in his/her place. If prog is about stretching musical boundaries, or at least stepping out of the mainstream Pop structures, one must admit that not all prog genres are going to be to one's liking. Personally, Krautrock, Zeuhl, and most , but not all RIO/Avant Garde is not to my liking. Heck, Raga-Indo Rock still confuses me by its' inclusion here. But I have come to love Univers Zero ( Ihave all their albums). I like some Zappa albums, but not all. And I STILL give a listen to some mp3 samples from Krautrock & Zeulh bands in case there is that one act that will catch my fancy.
So my main pleasure here at PA is the search for musical treasures that I've yet to find. TO stumble on some forgotten classic, or maybe a newer act putting their own stamp on prog. If not, we may just as well re-define prog as the music made by some bands before 1980 & refuse admission to this hallowed club for anything afterwards.
I am not exactly a fan of most of the new metal of the last decade (prog or not). But there are still "metal" groups or artists that i have become interested in such as Devin Townsend, Anathema, and others. So don't lock your mind up. You never know what it might like until you find it.