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Raff 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24438 |
 Posted: August 13 2007 at 18:40 |
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Personally, I am in favour of adding half-star ratings, but only as a way of gilding the lily, so to say. As others have already pointed out, what really should count is the REVIEW, not the rating. When I want to know more about an album prior to buying it, I do look at the overall rating, but I don't certainly stop there - I usually try to read at least a few reviews, especially those coming from consistently reliable reviewers. In fact, a good reviewer will be able to convey what they see as the real value of an album, which includes its being somehow 'more' or 'less' than the rating that appears next to it.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: August 13 2007 at 17:45 |
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 hahahha.. nice speech Ivan. Being the season of political campaigning youu should consider a career as a politician... when all else fails... lots of slogans, wave the flag and say those who are against you are against the site  Sure I'm all for improving the site, when it needs to be improved. This is simple.. and works... Rating :
just what comes between essential and excellent anyway ... let me guess.. almost essential.Edited by micky - August 13 2007 at 17:48 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 23:36 |
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The ratings without review are not really a problem, changing a rating is a voluntary act, some may be able or even want to do it (Owners, Adms and Collaborators), the others will stay.
At the end a rating without review can show no contradiction, because the rater has not expressed a single opinion.
Iván
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A˛ Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 23:11 |
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Does changing an old review really matter that much? If someone is interested in doing so, they will do it. Otherwise the existing rating stands. It would be nice to have the option for future ratings.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 16:31 |
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Not exactly, itt means the wise man from the coast
 I always lived 5 blocks from the beach until 5 years ago that I live 4 Kms (40 blocks) from the beach.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 12 2007 at 16:42 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 16:29 |
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The top reviewers are mostly Collaborators who are able to change the rating.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 12 2007 at 16:30 |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 16:29 |
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It's really a question of what new rating would the reviewer wish to apply? If they originally gave 4 stars, do they wish it to now be 3.5, 4, or 4.5?
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ProgBagel
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: May 13 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2819 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 16:05 |
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Can it be a slow process of changing old reviews...like choosing the top reviewers and then down the list? (hierarchy)
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andu
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 15:43 |
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I fully agree and support this ^ |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 15:43 |
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Or in other words: Progress or perish...  Seriously though, I like your proposal Iván, and you brought up a few arguments not mentioned before. However, this does not resolve the huge backlog of existing reviews that would have to be 'fixed'. And worse, I just realised that a lot of reviewers and 'raters-without-review' are not even visiting the site anymore. How would we deal with that??? |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 15:08 |
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In Peru, Ivan actually means "The wise man from the mountains, who is the font of knowledge on all things progressive".
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ProgBagel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 13 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2819 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 15:03 |
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Are you a sage...Iván?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 14:50 |
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That's a strong point, I agree in this for both reasons, first it's a total disrespect to say someone, what you did in 6 months or a year odf hard work and love means nothing, it's not even worth a star that I can give for free, is a total disrespect.
And it's a problem for rating because an album with nio reviews will havee 0 stars exatcly as an album with 10 reviews and 0 stars and thatt would require a negative rating for the 0 stars average to leave the two in the same plane.
When a studen't gives a test here in Per'u (our system is from 0 to 20), he's got 5 points just for placing his name, I believe just the work and risk of releasing an album in a non profitable genre deserves at least one star, even if the album is terrible, he's helping to keep the genre alive because some people will like it.
1.- t's possible to m,anipulate the ratings ProgBagel, Guigo once told me that the difference between the first five albums is so short that even one rating (Specially if done with review by a Collaborator which is worth ten times a rating without review) may make the difference.
But I don't believe you are trying to manipulate the ratings, talking about our honesty is a total disrespect, even a criminal is considered innocent until is proven guilty.
Why in hell shoyuld people who break their b@lls working for free will want to manipulate the ratings?
Something else, with some extra ratings, the chanvces of manipulating would be less, because you have more variables.
2,. The 2 - 4 stars ratings is where the problem relies, but I prropose:
Maybe the text may change, but having more options, the rating will go parallel to the review, as Bob said I read reviews saying "4.99 so I wiill go with 4 stars" that is contradictory to say the less.
Then why change Art Rock, why add RPI if the system has worked so well that lead us to the first place in the net?
Simply because we want to make it even better, the spirit of superation makes us progress, if we stayed with what works, we will still be using kerosene lamps because at the end light is light.
Those who don't improve are condemned to faillure.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 12 2007 at 16:45 |
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ProgBagel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 13 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2819 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 13:35 |
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FYI, manipulating the ratings was not anything I had in mind...and it is impossible to do for the big albums, anyway.
As stated before I would have most trouble with the 3 star rating...it would be a vacuum for so many albums I'd like the review. And if one were to look at my reviews, they would most likely judge that there all on the same level. Now about mentioning the 3.5 stars really!!! is a good argument...it doesn't really help when I check out someones reviews that I feel I can agree on, because if I want to go by their ratings and they have a lot of reviews there might be a few 5's and decent amount of 4's...but what about the three's...I can just check all of the out and see which say 3.5 really!!! Although I'm not intending to 'manipulate' the ratings...the .5 would make them slighty more accurate and possibly agreeable. |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 11:04 |
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...and you should see his axe!
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Shakespeare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 7744 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 09:47 |
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"Everything is meaningless," cried the teacher.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21680 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 09:43 |
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yes ... why not reduce the ratings to 0 (bad) and 1 (bad) ... after all, nothing matters anyway. |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 09:28 |
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and your point is.... no one is calling for removal of the ratings. As I posted earlier...it is no problem to round up or down. I assume we all learned how to do that in school. Have yet to hear a significant difference between a 3 star album and 3.5 star album for example. All you have to do is review an album and give a rating based on 1-5... what is so damn hard about that |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 09:16 |
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I have the idea that fellow collaborators underestimate how important the ratings and the categories are for all those greedy progheads who visit Prog Archives in order to discover good music: they have to make choices because everyday the homepage is flooded by new reviews and to me it seems that it will only become more because Prog Archives is hot! During my work for Dutch progrock magazines I discovered that the following elements are important for the readers of reviews:
- the name of the reviewer (reliability is very important)
- referring to big names like Pink Floyd, ELP, Genesis, King Crimson and Yes because
these bands they are familiar to and they are often searching for 'prog like Genesis' or
'prog in the vein of ELP', etc.
- the category (there are lots of ardent Prog-metal haters or notorious Neo-prog haters
or progheads who don't like Seventies or vintage keyboards prog.
- the rating only few progheads read all the reviews so they choose to pick up the 4 and
5 star rating, rather than checking out interesting bands with 3 or 3,5 star ratings.
By the way, fellow collaborators, Eric is my USA twin-brother, it's Erik, derived from the Skandinavian Vikings....
Edited by erik neuteboom - August 12 2007 at 09:21 |
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Prog-jester
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 05 2005 Location: Love Beach Status: Offline Points: 5919 |
Posted: August 12 2007 at 09:15 |
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I agree with Eric, but I mostly have problems with 3 stars. Most albums that recieved this rating from me were 2.5 or 3.5 in fact. But giving 2 or 4 stars would be unfair...I'm so confused
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Half-stars would be a good point IMHO. But it will cause massive re-writing of ALL REVIEWS!!!  That will simply kill PA's normal activity for months
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Will there ever be an added .5 star rating?
Topic Options
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Essential: a masterpiece of progressive music
Excellent addition to any prog music collection
Good, but non-essential
Collectors/fans only
Poor. Only for completionists
