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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
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ditto from me Bob... the ratings have become some sort of a game, an obsession to some. That should have been obvious when some here wanted to remove live prog albums from the top prog album list. Enough... There is no need to fix what isn't broken... the stars are a guide, a quick reference. What counts is the review itself. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Shakespeare ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: July 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 7744 |
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I'm pretty apathetic on this topic, now.
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21680 |
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One thing I've been thinking about and which I will definitely implement is that along with the rating the reviewer will be able to assign a level of "importance" to the album:
0: Unimportant 1: only for collectors 2: only useful for fans of the band/artist 3: recommended for fans of the genre 4: essential for fans of the genre 5: absolutely essential |
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erik neuteboom ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
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I am not happy with the current 5 star rating possibilities and I have given my opinion about it since early 2004 but nothing changes, only the lay out and the things that M@X is interested in
![]() For example: there is too much space between a two star (only for fans) and 3 star (good) and too much space between 4 stars (excellent addition ) and 5 stars (masterpiece). You can be creative with mentioning 3,5 stars of 4,5 stars but this doesn't change the rating that accompanies the review. There should also be a kind of extraordinary rating category (6 stars) for Classic Prog masterpieces like Foxtrot by Genesis or Close To The Edge by Yes because these albums are on an extremely high level, extremely innovative and extremely pivotal.
I have to admit that for me it's harder to think about the rating than to write a review ![]() Edited by erik neuteboom - August 12 2007 at 08:32 |
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Angelo ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
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I knew it.... your real name is Nigel T. ![]() |
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21680 |
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^ I thought about splitting the rating into different aspects and then deriving a combined value ... maybe I'll implement that on my website. But even to me as a certified "Ratingfreak" it seems a little bit over the top. Do you think that reviewers would take the time and fill out such detailed "evaluation forms" for every album they review?
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Joolz ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1377 |
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Not from me ... I am opposed to any change because I believe the current system to be perfectly adequate ... ratings are there as a quick reference, a very rough guide to how the reviewer feels .... if you want more detail then you read the review. The problem with the current system ... apart from the many reviewers who give false ratings [eg 5 stars for non-Prog albums etc] .... is that the 'rating' is used as the basis of the chart. IMO if you want to create a proper chart from members ratings then you need to have a lot more detail .... graded by 100 with different categories like 'progginess', sound quality, enjoyment factor, musical quality, songwriting etc. ... only then will you get a decent chart from it. |
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Easy Livin ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
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0 stars was seen as being disrespectful to the artists (as opposed to just harsh). I suspect also that 0 causes more problems with calculations sometimes (but Mike will know better whether that's the case! M@x's reluctance in the past to change the starts have mainly been down to the implications for existing ratings. i.e., do we automatically assume that 5 star reviews remain 5 stars, not 4.5?
Quite a lot of reviewers will say that an album is worth 4.99 stars but not 5, then give 4 stars. Their reviews would look a bit odd if they continued with 4 stars when 4.5 is available.
If there is a strong push from the memebrs for half stars, or 1-10 ratings, I'm sure M@x will reconsider. Is that strength of opinion there, or is this more of a nice to have?
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21680 |
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Sorry, but one or two stars are also "harsh" ... there is no polite way to say that you really don't like an album - or that the recording artists made grave errors or need to practice more. Edited by MikeEnRegalia - August 12 2007 at 04:42 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Agree with that, for example, I believe all Gabriel Genesis albums are ESSENTIAL, so I rated all with 5 stars (That's what the guidelines say i must do), but honestly, I don't like SEBTP as much as I like Foxtrot, Nursery Cryme and Trespass, 4.5 (Not 5.5 that would be a joke) will reflect that SEBTP is ESSENTIAL but Foxtrot, NC and Trespass are slightly better.
Another case is the ELP debut, I don't believe it's a great addition for every Prog collection, it's very good but IMHO if you have Trilogy and BSS, you have the essential ELP.
On the other hand I gave OK Computer the same 3 stars, because saying it's less than good would be lying, but at the end of the day Emerson Lake & Palmer debut is much better than any Radiohead album (Again IMHO).
What should I do? Lie and say OK Computer is not a good album or keep it at the same level of a superior album?
If I gave 2 stars to OK computer i would be manipulating the charts, but if I give 3.5 to ELP I would be being perfectly honest and will reflect in a better way my review.
None of us here wants to manipulate the ratings, it's would be stupid, I never cared for the top 100, I rather have Hybris and Epilog than Larks Tongues in Aspic despite their position and said 100 times I don't believe SEBTP is a top 5 album despite how much I love Genesis.
We have been able to show what we think on a review which is much more important than a rating, if not I wouldn't had writen almost 200 reviews with an average of 800 words.
Being a Special Collaborator and if I wanted to manipulate an average it would be easier to make 200 words reviews to be posted and have multiplied my rating for ten in the charts, but the fact that i take hours to write them (Using a thesaurus because my English is not in a native level) proves I care for my reviews but an accurate rating also helps a lot.
Why (If it's possible of course) shouldn't we try to be more precise? Why should we be accused of trying to manipulate a chart we don't care about?
I dobn't doubt of the honesty of any member only because he/she wants to make this site better with an opinion he believes in, Not only the Collaborators suggestions are worth or deserve to be listened, if somebody believes in something, muust be allowed to say it without having fear of being accused of dishonesty.
If we cared for charts we won't be listening Prog that is never in te top charts of popularity some of us since Prog was extremely unpopular or when everybody else thought it was dead and even reviewing some of the most unknown albums.
If it's possible would be great, if it's not, well we will continue making our reviews as we have done them since we joined the site, but i don't believe recommending something we believe is an improvement is a sin, by the contrary, shows our interest for the site.
Iván
BTW: What about the people who make ratings without reviews because they are not able to write a coherent review in English?
For them the acuracy of a rating is the only way availlable to express what they believe. Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - August 12 2007 at 02:35 |
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Dirk ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1043 |
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I know myself , i've not been a very prolific reviewer sofar, all the albums i reviewed sofar have gotten 4 stars although they range from 3.75 to 4.5 imo sofar which is quite a difference. Another example is Erik's database, it was fun for me browsing through it because he distinghuishes now in rating between a lot of albums that he just gave 3 or 4 stars in the past. |
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Shakespeare ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: July 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 7744 |
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NO
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ProgBagel ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: May 13 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2819 |
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pretty please
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chamberry ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 24 2005 Location: Puerto Rico Status: Offline Points: 9008 |
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Actually, there are some people that will still look at the ratings no matter how well one talks about the album. Personally I would like my ratings to be in par with my reviews. |
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Shakespeare ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: July 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 7744 |
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FINAL WORD^ let's not dwell too long here
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46838 |
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exactly my point ..... people feel at loss to quantify in in a 1-5 structure because that is what is most important to them... placing the emphasis on the rating.. not the review itself. Leave it the way it is. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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ProgBagel ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: May 13 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2819 |
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The is the best way of putting it. ![]() |
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Dirk ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1043 |
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Shakespeare ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: July 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 7744 |
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1 - 5 sums up the quality of the album, and in words you should specifically describe how good it is, how much you like it, and, again, it always works to give a 4.5, really!!!!!!!!
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chamberry ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 24 2005 Location: Puerto Rico Status: Offline Points: 9008 |
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That's what I feel about many of my 3 star reviews. If I feel like the album is a little bit better than a "good, but non-essential", but still not a 4 star then I write 3.5 in the end of the review although it would be better if we had the whole .5 star rating. |
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