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triplechanger 
Forum Newbie 
Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 21 |
 Topic: drums in 5/4Posted: July 16 2007 at 08:31 |
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I'm having trouble with drums in 5/4 in a particular song,. The guitars and bass sound fine but the problem is I want it to be kind of a driving, propulsive riff but the final crotchet of the bar sounds like an afterthought and the momentum seems to ebb a bit. Anyone have any tips? Or should I just shorten the riff and have it in 4/4?
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Pafnutij
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: October 02 2005 Location: Russian Federation Status: Offline Points: 415 |
Posted: July 16 2007 at 19:38 |
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You can leave the riff as it is but play the drums in 4/4 . The drumbeat would even out every 2 bars.
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jeffn1
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 28 2004 Status: Offline Points: 34 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 21:30 |
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It is tough to say without hearing it, but my impression with 5/4 pieces is the first beat usually is emphasized a lot.
Actually, I think it is cloos as hell when the different parts are sort of in different time sigs, which come togehter after a number of bars (you do the math).
I did that in Time-Space Continuum, if you care to listen: www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
jeffn1
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For original progressive electronic rock, check out: www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
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Rimantas B.
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 19 2007 Location: Lithuania Status: Offline Points: 22 |
Posted: July 21 2007 at 03:51 |
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When I need to do this, I usually find myself making the drummer play snare on the 6th eigth (quaver) of the 5/4 bar. You don't lose the 'backbeat', but the accents are somewhat displaced. I think it sound quite proggy.
Ex.: Kick-Hat-Hat-Hat-Hat-Snare-Hat-Hat-Hat-Hat, all eights. Of course, you need to replace the 'hathathathat' with something more interesting. |
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005 Location: Soundgarden Status: Offline Points: 18292 |
Posted: July 21 2007 at 04:02 |
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H - Hi-hat
B - Bass Drum
S - Snare Drum
1..........2..........3..........4..........5..........
H.........H..........H.........H.........H.........
B.......................B.....................B.......
............S......................S.........(S).......
Of course you can make this one more interesting (8 notes on the hi-hat, more bass drum, a cymbal at the end etc...), but it would be too complicated to write down.
Or a really fast one, to use in complicated parts:
1..2..3..4..5..
H..........H.....
B...........B.....
....S..S......S
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purplepiper
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 280 |
Posted: July 23 2007 at 00:49 |
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I think you should go for the 5/4! Are you familiar with king crimson's larks' tongues in aspic pt 2? If so, there's a brief, yet wicked bass riff about halfway through the song that is backed by an awesome drum rhythym in 5/4. It's just militaristic snare drumming, but man is it sweet! It must be a good rhythym...it's in the middle of a heavy crimson song and bill bruford is playing it! Go with the 5/4 man...the music world has had enough of 4/4!
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for those about to prog, we salute you.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10261 |
Posted: July 23 2007 at 03:52 |
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Play the snare on the 1 and right in the middle between the 3 and 4, the bass drum on the 2 and 5 and the hi-hat on the 4. That way you get a really driving rhythm. You can even improve it if you play the bass drum on the 5 as a double kick.
Edited by BaldFriede - July 23 2007 at 03:57 |
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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nightlamp
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2007 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 163 |
Posted: July 25 2007 at 19:23 |
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It's hard to give advice without hearing what else is going on in the tune, but how about subdividing the drum part? You could do 3+2, or 3+3+2+2 for a 10/8 feel... Just a thought.
With the HH/Ride playing quarters/eighths/whatever: ||: Kick 2 3 Snare 2 :|| or ||:Kick 2 3 Snare 2 3 Kick 2 Snare 2 :|| Edited by nightlamp - July 25 2007 at 19:26 |
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Time Signature
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 20 2007 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
Posted: July 26 2007 at 19:54 |
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Try some syncopated snare hits. That usually sounds very cool.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10261 |
Posted: July 26 2007 at 21:58 |
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That's why I suggested to hit the snare between the 3 and the 4. |
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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Time Signature
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 20 2007 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
Posted: July 27 2007 at 10:25 |
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So you did. Sorry, I missed your post. Just tried out your suggestion, and at mid-to-high tempo, it sounds pretty cool. Edited by Time Signature - July 27 2007 at 10:28 |
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#1floydfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 153 |
Posted: July 28 2007 at 23:11 |
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yuppery helps to know your theory there but this is coming from a guitarist....
Edited by #1floydfan - July 28 2007 at 23:12 |
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william314159
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 144 |
Posted: July 30 2007 at 00:14 |
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a cool subdivision that i like is to think of it as two bars of 5/8, the first one phrased 3 + 2 and the second one 2 + 3, in other words: x x x x
s s s s s s
b b b b
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 14 2006 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 4160 |
Posted: July 30 2007 at 20:57 |
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If you want a "driving" filing, 2 try triplets instead of last 4 eights. Or play (if the tempo is fast) just as 5/8, with occasional pauses on 2nd, 3d and 5th eight.
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Revan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2005 Status: Offline Points: 540 |
Posted: August 02 2007 at 18:34 |
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it would be usefull to know the riff but try this out (click on it to see it better)
 Edited by Revan - August 02 2007 at 18:35 |
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triplechanger
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Posted: August 06 2007 at 13:49 |
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Thanks for all the replys, all have helped. I would like to post the finished article but I'm not sure quite how toas it seems you can't attach zip files. The riff is in drop D, is played on the lowest 3 strings and goes something like this:
d - 0 11 13 0 11 13 12 13 12 11
a - 0 11 13 0 11 13 12 13 12 11
d - 0 11 13 0 11 13 12 13 12 11
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Gravity is a CIA plot to keep us on earth...
No way! Yes way! |
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 8844 |
Posted: August 06 2007 at 15:24 |
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A little hint: When you're trying to communicate with drummerrs, guitar tab isn't terribly useful.
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Proletariat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1882 |
Posted: August 06 2007 at 15:40 |
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Shakespeare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 7744 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 19:49 |
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The best way to become accustomed to 5/4 is to play along to "Long Distance Runaround". The snare hit is on every fifth beat - try counting it out at first, then as soon as you can do it without counting, it clicks.
Bruford has always said he loves 5/4. |
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: August 09 2007 at 20:28 |
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A classic 5/4 beat and unusually simple is the pattern in Rush - The Trees right after the middle break. Here's a part of it I got from the Rush Drum Tab Project.
http://www.cygnusproductions.com/rtp/drums/drums.asp C C-B---B---B-B---|B-B---B---B-B-----|B-B---B---B-B-----| S --X-------X-----|X-X-------X-------|X-X-------X-------| K X---X---X---X-X-|----X---X---X-X-X-|----X---X---X-X-X-| Edited by StyLaZyn - August 09 2007 at 20:35 |
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drums in 5/4
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triplechanger wrote: