drums in 5/4
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Topic: drums in 5/4
Posted By: triplechanger
Subject: drums in 5/4
Date Posted: July 16 2007 at 08:31
| I'm having trouble with drums in 5/4 in a particular song,. The guitars and bass sound fine but the problem is I want it to be kind of a driving, propulsive riff but the final crotchet of the bar sounds like an afterthought and the momentum seems to ebb a bit. Anyone have any tips? Or should I just shorten the riff and have it in 4/4? |
Replies:
Posted By: Pafnutij
Date Posted: July 16 2007 at 19:38
| You can leave the riff as it is but play the drums in 4/4 . The drumbeat would even out every 2 bars. |
Posted By: jeffn1
Date Posted: July 18 2007 at 21:30
|
It is tough to say without hearing it, but my impression with 5/4 pieces is the first beat usually is emphasized a lot.
Actually, I think it is cloos as hell when the different parts are sort of in different time sigs, which come togehter after a number of bars (you do the math).
I did that in Time-Space Continuum, if you care to listen: http://www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness - www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness
jeffn1 ------------- For original progressive electronic rock, check out: www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness |
Posted By: Rimantas B.
Date Posted: July 21 2007 at 03:51
|
When I need to do this, I usually find myself making the drummer play snare on the 6th eigth (quaver) of the 5/4 bar. You don't lose the 'backbeat', but the accents are somewhat displaced. I think it sound quite proggy.
Ex.: Kick-Hat-Hat-Hat-Hat-Snare-Hat-Hat-Hat-Hat, all eights. Of course, you need to replace the 'hathathathat' with something more interesting. |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: July 21 2007 at 04:02
|
H - Hi-hat
B - Bass Drum
S - Snare Drum
1..........2..........3..........4..........5..........
H.........H..........H.........H.........H.........
B.......................B.....................B.......
............S......................S.........(S).......
Of course you can make this one more interesting (8 notes on the hi-hat, more bass drum, a cymbal at the end etc...), but it would be too complicated to write down.
Or a really fast one, to use in complicated parts:
1..2..3..4..5..
H..........H.....
B...........B.....
....S..S......S
|
Posted By: purplepiper
Date Posted: July 23 2007 at 00:49
I think you should go for the 5/4! Are you familiar with king crimson's larks' tongues in aspic pt 2? If so, there's a brief, yet wicked bass riff about halfway through the song that is backed by an awesome drum rhythym in 5/4. It's just militaristic snare drumming, but man is it sweet! It must be a good rhythym...it's in the middle of a heavy crimson song and bill bruford is playing it! Go with the 5/4 man...the music world has had enough of 4/4! ------------- for those about to prog, we salute you. |
triplechanger wrote:Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: July 23 2007 at 03:52
|
Play the snare on the 1 and right in the middle between the 3 and 4, the bass drum on the 2 and 5 and the hi-hat on the 4. That way you get a really driving rhythm. You can even improve it if you play the bass drum on the 5 as a double kick. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: nightlamp
Date Posted: July 25 2007 at 19:23
|
It's hard to give advice without hearing what else is going on in the tune, but how about subdividing the drum part? You could do 3+2, or 3+3+2+2 for a 10/8 feel... Just a thought. With the HH/Ride playing quarters/eighths/whatever: ||: Kick 2 3 Snare 2 :|| or ||:Kick 2 3 Snare 2 3 Kick 2 Snare 2 :|| |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: July 26 2007 at 19:54
| Try some syncopated snare hits. That usually sounds very cool. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: July 26 2007 at 21:58
That's why I suggested to hit the snare between the 3 and the 4. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: July 27 2007 at 10:25
So you did. Sorry, I missed your post. Just tried out your suggestion, and at mid-to-high tempo, it sounds pretty cool.
|
Posted By: #1floydfan
Date Posted: July 28 2007 at 23:11
|
yuppery helps to know your theory there but this is coming from a guitarist.... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/jimbobismykitty/?chartstyle=basicrt10 - [IMG - http://imagegen.last.fm/basicrt10/recenttracks/jimbobismykitty.gif - |
Posted By: william314159
Date Posted: July 30 2007 at 00:14
|
a cool subdivision that i like is to think of it as two bars of 5/8, the first one phrased 3 + 2 and the second one 2 + 3, in other words: x x x x
s s s s s s
b b b b
|
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: July 30 2007 at 20:57
|
If you want a "driving" filing, 2 try triplets instead of last 4 eights. Or play (if the tempo is fast) just as 5/8, with occasional pauses on 2nd, 3d and 5th eight. ------------- |
Posted By: Revan
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 18:34
|
it would be usefull to know the riff but try this out (click on it to see it better) http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=54lj3.png">  ------------- 
|
Posted By: triplechanger
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 13:49
|
Thanks for all the replys, all have helped. I would like to post the finished article but I'm not sure quite how toas it seems you can't attach zip files. The riff is in drop D, is played on the lowest 3 strings and goes something like this:
d - 0 11 13 0 11 13 12 13 12 11
a - 0 11 13 0 11 13 12 13 12 11
d - 0 11 13 0 11 13 12 13 12 11 ------------- Gravity is a CIA plot to keep us on earth... No way! Yes way! |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 15:24
|
A little hint: When you're trying to communicate with drummerrs, guitar tab isn't terribly useful.
-------------   |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 15:40
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 19:49
|
The best way to become accustomed to 5/4 is to play along to "Long Distance Runaround". The snare hit is on every fifth beat - try counting it out at first, then as soon as you can do it without counting, it clicks. Bruford has always said he loves 5/4. |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 20:28
|
A classic 5/4 beat and unusually simple is the pattern in Rush - The Trees right after the middle break. Here's a part of it I got from the Rush Drum Tab Project. http://www.cygnusproductions.com/rtp/drums/drums.asp - http://www.cygnusproductions.com/rtp/drums/drums.asp C C-B---B---B-B---|B-B---B---B-B-----|B-B---B---B-B-----| S --X-------X-----|X-X-------X-------|X-X-------X-------| K X---X---X---X-X-|----X---X---X-X-X-|----X---X---X-X-X-| ------------- 
|
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: August 09 2007 at 20:36
| The Long Distance Runaway/Fish section of Fragile is excellent for getting into that 5/4 groove. |
Posted By: triplechanger
Date Posted: August 12 2007 at 17:32
|
There appears to have been a slight misunderstanding about the riff that I posted. This was a substitute fora MIDI recording of the Guitar Pro file which I am unsure of how to put on this forum. I'm sorry if I confused anyone.
P.S. It is all in quavers (ending up as 3, 3, 4 in subdivisions) ------------- Gravity is a CIA plot to keep us on earth... No way! Yes way! |
Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: August 14 2007 at 07:54
|
just upload it at rapidshare.com
Also, I've heard some jazz musicians say, that 4/4 is just the easier modified version of 5/4 which is the original. try listening to Dave Brubecks "Take Five" or say, Living in the Past by Jethro Tull. Now that's what I think about when you talk about 5/4. A swaying groove. |
Posted By: carrot_ram
Date Posted: August 28 2007 at 11:02
| I love it when a drummer plays a phrase spanning, say, 5 /8, then repeats it with the hat continuing throughout in straight 1/4 notes. You still get the feel of a five-beat cycle but the constant quarter notes keep the flow. |
Posted By: Time Signature
Date Posted: August 29 2007 at 08:14
Can you make a midi-version of it, or a ProGuitar (GuitarPro?) file, or a TuxGuitar file? I've tried playing it, the way, I guess you want it to sound... and it sounds pretty psycho-mean. |