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StyLaZyn 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
 Posted: July 18 2007 at 17:21 |
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Oh just f&%kin great. Two albums I quite enjoy ATTWT and Tormato. Both Prog in my eyes. Prog killers? Not! Tormato was my first Yes album.
Actually, this thread keep rambling on about Prog Killers. Prog is still pretty darn healthy if you as me.
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4088 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 17:14 |
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 A very knowledgeable and accurate statement there, buddy !
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist Joined: March 01 2006 Location: San Foca, Friűl Status: Offline Points: 5851 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 17:13 |
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Simply because is rotten and totally not Prog (from a big Prog band):
KANSAS: "DRASTIC MEASURE"
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Dean
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 17:09 |
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I can't vote here because all of the albums mentioned have survived the subsequent 30 years - you can go onto Amazon and buy every one of them, and all of the artists went on to record later albums that are also still available. The decline of Prog towards the end of the 70's and early 80's had nothing to do with the music, but was caused by the change in peoples’ attitude towards it engineered by a few “hip” journalists in the music press who were more interested in promoting their own fragile egos than good music. In the UK we can blame the self-promoting Charles Shaar Murray, Tony Parsons, Jane Suck and Julie Burchill - and their biggest and most damaging converts: the Radio DJ's who had championed Prog up until then and now jumped ship, switching their allegiances to the emerging New Wave scene solely because it made them look trendily anti-establishment – something they hadn’t been since the demise of Pirate Radio in the late 60’s. Rock Journalism became the new Rock and Roll, not Punk (which in case we forget, lasted less than a year before it drowned in its own puddle of gob) they just hijacked it and used it to fulfill their own agenda. If Punk managed to kill anything at all, (other than itself), it killed off Glam-rock and the unbearably dire Pub-rock scene – the Progressive groups of the day continued in spite of it. It is hard to comprehend the power they wielded at that time – They were the people who politicized what was happening, spreading discontent through the system – and as Journalists, they are the ones who have written the skewed history of that time that is still regarded as truth today. The evidence does not bear out their claims, Neo-prog and Prog-metal are not a nostalgia gig – new vibrant young musicians are emerging who have seen through their lies: Progressive music is still around, concept albums are still being made, epics are still being composed and stadiums are still being filled by the very dinosaurs that they claimed had been driven to extinction. You can't even blame Greg Lake's Persian carpet - even that is going strong after all these years, and can now be seen guesting on the System of a Down video for Hypnotize. |
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What?
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 17:07 |
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In the second half of the Seventies the symphonic rock dinosaurs served the sarcastic musical press perfectly with albums like Love Beach by ELP (an almost complete lacklustre effort), And Then There Were Three by Genesis (Collins his road to commercial succes with his predictable prog-pop) and Tormato by Yes (one of the most uninspired progrock albums ever), The Sex Pistols did the rest
 ... but fortunately progrock is too interesting to remain in the vaults of time so in fact nobody killed prog .. but it was a close escape in the late Seventies and early Eighties, a big hand for Marillion ! Edited by erik neuteboom - July 18 2007 at 17:07 |
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007 Location: Austin TX Status: Offline Points: 6890 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 16:50 |
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You make prog sound really dead. Your scaring me!
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 16:46 |
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[QUOTE=Dick Heath] combined by the touring excesses of ELP in 1974-6 , QUOTE]
No disrespect Dick but I don't think ELP actually did anything, recording or touring except at the end of the BSS tour in the first part of 74 (CalJam was the last show) in those years. Not that the earlier tours or the 77 tour didn't have excesses in plenty.
 As for the topic I just think musical tastes changed along with the tightening up of the on air radio formats prog was left without a way to express itself to the masses as it is to this day. Bands changed their styles trying to survive and failed for the most part Genesis being a huge exception. MTV changed the way we heard music and everything went underground.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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MadcapLaughs84
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 21 2006 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 658 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 15:36 |
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Phil Collins and his stupid sense of humour
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Melomaniac
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4088 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 14:56 |
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Prog might have been on the respirator for some years, but it never died. And you know the old saying : what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
So I won't vote, as prog WILL NEVER DIE !!!
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"One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2755 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 14:27 |
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Maybe this would have made a much better discussion thread than a prog poll.
Of course I specifically meant something along the lines of which album was most iconic of the decline and fall of the first wave of prog, but that's not a very sexy title, is it?
I was trying to get representation from most major bands, hence a couple of albums that don't really seem to belong.
The thing that came across most clearly when I was choosing albums was that the decline tended to be a gradual thing spread across two to four albums for nearly all groups. I put up what I thought were the lowest points, for the most part (there's an exception or two).
I appreciate all of the comments and would like to see more of them.
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FranMuzak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2007 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 195 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 14:24 |
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Me too, i love many albums and bands from the "so hated "80´s and later ones, so i couldn´t vote.
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 14:04 |
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You know, I think 60 & 70s prog just evolved to the point where it was becoming repetitive or too esoteric. In my opinion, it was a natural evolution of an artistic style. I don't think anything "killed" it; it was death by natural causes. Prog had a great life, and its offshoots (neo prog and prog metal) have great lives too, I guess (not really being a fan, I'm just assuming).
But prog's death throes were rather amusing in a perverse sort of way (that's why this poll is so amusing). Of course the legacy lives on; I'm still listening to it, but its creative lifespan is over and has been for over 25 years. Edited by bluetailfly - July 18 2007 at 14:27 |
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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darkmatter
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2006 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 2760 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 13:56 |
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Prog is still alive, so nothing killed it.
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Dim
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 17 2007 Location: Austin TX Status: Offline Points: 6890 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 13:54 |
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How about "forget th bullocks, heres the sex pistols"
Punk killed prog, not prog. Punk was music answer to music. Rebellious, sloppy, moshy freaks who dont know how to sing, play guitar/ bass, but they an play drums really fast, but with ZERO fills.
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 13:39 |
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IMHO, GFTO and Works I were still powerful prog albums. It's pretty clear that the quality was still there. Granted it was different than the bands' earlier stuff, but it still succeed as good prob. The bands were exploring new ground (they had to), but the lps worked as good music.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 13:31 |
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Good idea for a poll.
One album didn't kill 70s prog, but I would argue that there were albums that severly wounded it, some more than others.
My vote goes to "Love Beach." I don't think prog ever fully recovered from the mortifying embarassment of that release. Something was definitely wrong with prog ethos at this point, as later lps by other bands would bear out. In hindsight, it wasn't all that bad, but at the time, it was hard to envision a viable direction for prog; Fripp was about the only guy taking it forward in a serious, uncompromising way.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 24 2006 Location: Elkhorn, WI Status: Offline Points: 7910 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 13:31 |
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I second that. E |
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salmacis
Forum Senior Member
Content Addition Joined: April 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3928 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 13:12 |
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The very fact people of all ages are still discussing prog to this day show it never did die- I'd argue it's now in its best health for some time, with Marillion, Porcupine Tree, Dream Theater and Rush faring reasonably well in the UK album charts for the first time in years (and in some cases, ever). This would imply that there is a greater audience for prog than there has been for years- perhaps an audience that has tired of the dull, NME-hyped indie bands that are de rigeur at the moment (I tried to move with the times and bought various Strokes/Libertines etc. albums and I was just deflated and disappointed with all of them).
However, the album which damaged prog's reputation the most? I've posted many a time that I like TFTO (though I readily accept it's not perfect and that there are flaws) and it's a LONG way from Yes' poorest, imho, but the candidates I always reach for in the 'worst excesses of prog' category are 'A Passion Play' and 'Works Volume 1'. I cannot find a memorable hook on APP no matter how many times I play it (and don't get me started on that '...Spectacles' thing!!) and even the title of 'Works Volume 1' is pompous! The solo material is, imho, well below the band's usual standard, and really it doesn't justify the album's double album length. Spectacles such as Rick Wakeman's 'King Arthur on ice' extravaganza/folly probably didn't help, either. Edited by salmacis - July 18 2007 at 13:21 |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12812 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 13:03 |
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We first generation prog fan will argue but many will tell you Topographic Oceans provided plentiful ammunition to the anti-prog brigade - it is hard to argue with the Clash's charge that when inner city deprevation, unemployment, 3 days weeks were common, what did ToTO means to the average teeenager) , combined by the touring excesses of ELP in 1974-6 , combined with many of the first generation bands running out of innovative ideas (that made them attractive in the first place) and several disbanding. But prog didn't die, it either went underground in the UK or moved to a new address off-shore from the UK - although the neo-prog bands appeared and provided the presence above ground.
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Publius84
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 1043 |
Posted: July 18 2007 at 12:55 |
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Agree. Prog is alive and it's kicking 
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I know what I like and I like what I know...
Prog is in my heart, in my mind, in my soul... |
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The Album That Killed Prog?
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erik neuteboom wrote: