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nightlamp 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2007
Location: San Francisco
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Points: 163
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 Topic: I need a unique idea!!!!!!!
Posted: June 01 2007 at 13:26 |
 timesignature wrote:
but I want to know more, and no one here can teach me. I want to know new ways to experiment with my music. Irregular time signatures, polytonality, and poly rhythm have already been done... I need a new unique idea. |
The trouble with experimentation in music is there's no magic formula. No one "knows" how to experiment-- that's why it's experimental!  Seriously though, and I mean this with absolutely no disrespect: it's really easy to get lost in trying to create something entirely unique that's "never been done before". A chasing after the wind, so to speak... Focus more on developing your own musical voice using the tools at your disposal, and keep a creative eye (and ear) open for ways to experiment with what you have. Enjoy the process of experimentation and your own personal musical growth.
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randyhiatt
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Joined: May 29 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 83
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Posted: May 30 2007 at 18:43 |
"teenager with raging hormones" is what you sound like to me, thanks for clearing that up.
I would argue virtuosity is not a requirement for good music. Honesty is however. Since you are using typical instruments I'd suggest playing with their sounds and voicings, push the envelope looking for new textures (take the time to do this), from these efforts will come your new idea.
Always know what you trying to say (musically)? The story is king, once that is finilized all the pieces will fall into place. But without a story it's all just a bunch of chicken scratches to me.
Convert your painting to music, each color is a timbre.
Relax a bit when playing with others, your expectations are choaking I would assume.
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Randy
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zero_or_die77
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 07 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3
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Posted: May 19 2007 at 00:23 |
Certif1ed wrote:
zero_or_die77 wrote:
. what i've been trying to do on drums is search for strange new sounds that i can apply to a song. doing something out of the ordinary, but still sound good. it's so f**kin tough though! i took another drummers advice on going and just sitting out in the woods and letting the animals and sounds of the winds and birds give me ideas.
so if i were to give any advice it would be just that. sometimes you need to stopping searching and digging around for something, when it may be able to be found in the obvious and simple. |
This is good advice - "The Musical Box" is made up of a load of tiny, simple ideas, artfully melded together to make a large and complex whole.
I'm glad to see that even drum tutors give the nature advice - it seems a bit wierd, but it was good enough for Beethoven (the song of a yellowhammer allegedly inspired his 5th symphony) and Messaien (one of my favourite composers, he went around with a tape recorder so that he could transcribe birdsong - did he infringe their copyright?  ).
If you're a player, play.
You can't just sit down and invent a new idea - it just happens, but only through constant effort. It's like a lottery - lots of tickets but only one winner, so the more you have, the more likely you are to win. |
i also think that every instrument should have it's part. each playing in time and supporting each other, but all the while being seperate in style and all of them standing out and straying from the norm. producing it's own style as the song progresses. i hope that makes sense. mixing simple, yet technical.
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Man Erg
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 26 2004
Location: Isle of Lucy
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Points: 7456
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Posted: May 18 2007 at 06:05 |
Eno's Oblique Strategies.Just press the button and... 
http://music.hyperreal.org/artists/brian_eno/oblique/oblique.html
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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Man Erg
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Joined: August 26 2004
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Points: 7456
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Posted: May 18 2007 at 06:01 |
Atavachron wrote:
pretty cool, Lee, never heard of these. I suppose one could make their own set..
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Exactly.Hoping that you don't get writer's block making them. 
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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65250
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Posted: May 18 2007 at 05:58 |
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pretty cool, Lee, never heard of these. I suppose one could make their own set..
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Man Erg
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Joined: August 26 2004
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Posted: May 18 2007 at 05:48 |
I have an idea that might help.
Have you heard on Eno's Oblique Strategy cards?
This is a set of cards and on each card is an instruction. Pick a card out of the box at random and act upon the instruction.
The instructions range from:-Try a different Key-Make a Cup of Tea-Swap Instruments...get my drift?
It worked for me when I was writing music.It helped with writer's block.
The 'cards' used to be downloadable as a pdf.
Just a thought.
Edited by Man Erg - May 18 2007 at 06:02
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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Points: 7559
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Posted: May 18 2007 at 05:32 |
zero_or_die77 wrote:
. what i've been trying to do on drums is search for strange new sounds that i can apply to a song. doing something out of the ordinary, but still sound good. it's so f**kin tough though! i took another drummers advice on going and just sitting out in the woods and letting the animals and sounds of the winds and birds give me ideas.
so if i were to give any advice it would be just that. sometimes you need to stopping searching and digging around for something, when it may be able to be found in the obvious and simple. |
This is good advice - "The Musical Box" is made up of a load of tiny, simple ideas, artfully melded together to make a large and complex whole.
I'm glad to see that even drum tutors give the nature advice - it seems a bit wierd, but it was good enough for Beethoven (the song of a yellowhammer allegedly inspired his 5th symphony) and Messaien (one of my favourite composers, he went around with a tape recorder so that he could transcribe birdsong - did he infringe their copyright? ).
If you're a player, play.
You can't just sit down and invent a new idea - it just happens, but only through constant effort. It's like a lottery - lots of tickets but only one winner, so the more you have, the more likely you are to win.
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:24 |
cuncuna wrote:
Just think once, then. |
I'm trying to save myself for when it becomes necessary. In the meantime I look for threads I can post to. I wonder what I do when there aren't any ...
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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cuncuna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2005
Location: Chile
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Points: 4318
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Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:02 |
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Just think once, then.
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ˇBeware of the Bee!
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debrewguy
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Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:00 |
andu wrote:
One of the best moment in Romanian prog happened when the band Sfinx was having for the time only three members: two guitarists and a flutist. They had to create their own, new, way of building progressions in order to make prog-rock and keep the public interested during a full show. It seems that they were brilliant and the fact that they didn't have an actual rhythm section was not a problem for their genius. Unfortunately, nothing got recorded...
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OK, am I the only one to wonder if the group's name is not a joke of some kind ?  P.S. I agree with the suggestion that he play with himself (insert Beavis & Butthead snicker & snort here)
Edited by debrewguy - May 17 2007 at 21:01
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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zero_or_die77
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 07 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3
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Posted: May 17 2007 at 19:51 |
timesignature wrote:
Why do the drummers where I live suck! They just bang around and the only time signature they can play is 4/4, most don't even know what a time signature is!
Everyone here is tonedeaf and they know absolutey nothing about music theory!  Maybe it's normal to be the only one who knows anything in your local area... My dad has his masters degree in music theory, and I used to live in knoxville, Tennessee where there are schools of the arts where I studied classical and jazz piano... maybe I'm just lucky to have had some musical education..
but I want to know more, and no one here can teach me. I want to know new ways to experiment with my music. Irregular time signatures, polytonality, and poly rhythm have already been done... I need a new unique idea.  |
oh sh*t i know what you mean when you're trying to find a "unique idea". it seems like everything has been done already! it's really discouraging, especially as someone who can only play drums. playing with you helped me out a sh*tload in learning new styles and time signatures. (haha, i still practice that stuff you wrote. we seriously need to get together and play ...i'm def not anywhere near great at drumming, but i can at least try to put your thoughts in motion. and learn and hopefully get better as time progresses) . what i've been trying to do on drums is search for strange new sounds that i can apply to a song. doing something out of the ordinary, but still sound good. it's so f**kin tough though! i took another drummers advice on going and just sitting out in the woods and letting the animals and sounds of the winds and birds give me ideas.
so if i were to give any advice it would be just that. sometimes you need to stopping searching and digging around for something, when it may be able to be found in the obvious and simple.
i would love to incorporate many different styles (ex. jazz, hardcore, death, black, emo, classical, symphony, etc.) into A song. yes into one song. one awesomely long, very technical song. with the best of all worlds. and if mrs goddamn bishop would ever let us play, cause it's so hard moving 11 pieces of drum equipement around. like i said, i'm not very good but i do have ideas running through my head all the time. and i need to get a keyboard.  (i like that smiley)
peace nigga 
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maups2
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Joined: July 12 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 61
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Posted: April 30 2007 at 04:21 |
one hand clap wrote:
If you want to help your creativity just sit in front of whatever instrument you play (I play guitar and piano, but I find piano works much better) and just forget everything you have been taught about music. Just play anything; bang on the keys, hit random notes , just play something. Eventually you'll stumble across something that'll make you stop and play it again. You should record anything that you think is worth keeping right away or you might forget it. Just play. I've sat in front of my piano just improvising for hours on end and come up with nothing. But I've also played for 10 minutes and come up with an entire song idea. Don't worry about what you have learned in a music class. Those things only help when playing with others or communicating musical ideas. Take music class to learn how to play and how to improve your playing rather than to learn what to play. Also, don't play with a metronome or anything that keeps a beat, just play whatever comes to mind. Doing this, I've realized that I'm playing in bizarre time signatures (ex. 11/8) only after i recorded it and listened to it again.
This is the best way (at least for me) to truly make something creative.
Try it but remember that what works for one person might not work for another.
Good luck.
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I agree, this works for me as well. I think you should try approaching music with feeling over technicality. Perhaps instead of thinking "Oh, I think I should make this interesting and put in a 7/8 section here", maybe try and alter the mood of the piece. For example, I find that riffs in 7/8 seem to sound anxious, and riffs in 5/4 kind of keep you waiting for something. Maybe thats just me. Musical theory is great, but it can also be imprisoning. Don't be afraid to go out of the box (go out of key). Also, if you're playing something and it isn't going so great, stop and think of what you wouldn't normally play, then play that and milk it for all it's worth. You might find that some good comes out of it. Anyways, I don't know if any of this will help you, but as a fellow frustrated musician, good luck. Oh, and as for a "unique idea", record a riff/melody. Then reverse it. Play the new riff/melody back. It yields some interesting results. (and yes there is really nothing new or unique about this technique but you might as well give it a shot)
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one hand clap
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Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Canada
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Points: 60
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Posted: April 30 2007 at 01:22 |
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If you want to help your creativity just sit in front of whatever instrument you play (I play guitar and piano, but I find piano works much better) and just forget everything you have been taught about music. Just play anything; bang on the keys, hit random notes , just play something. Eventually you'll stumble across something that'll make you stop and play it again. You should record anything that you think is worth keeping right away or you might forget it. Just play. I've sat in front of my piano just improvising for hours on end and come up with nothing. But I've also played for 10 minutes and come up with an entire song idea. Don't worry about what you have learned in a music class. Those things only help when playing with others or communicating musical ideas. Take music class to learn how to play and how to improve your playing rather than to learn what to play. Also, don't play with a metronome or anything that keeps a beat, just play whatever comes to mind. Doing this, I've realized that I'm playing in bizarre time signatures (ex. 11/8) only after i recorded it and listened to it again.
This is the best way (at least for me) to truly make something creative.
Try it but remember that what works for one person might not work for another.
Good luck.
Edited by one hand clap - April 30 2007 at 01:26
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
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Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Points: 35795
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 20:29 |
Apologies for reading certain things into your post regarding intent (at least when it came to my second post) than were actually there (multitasking). I wasn't quite sure what the real focus of this discussion was meant to be. Still haven't reviewed this whole thread for fear of being contaminated by what others have said (I don't mind approaching this from a more ignorant standpoint). If you're not an extraordinarily talented instrumentalist at this stage, emulation makes for good practice. Then plow your own furrow. If you need more music lessons, well, there are plenty of materials available. As for contamination -- too late. Even innovative musical approaches are not born in a total vacuum -- we build on others work either consciously or subconsciously. But I'm sure you'll think of a good hook (no, not Dr. Hook) that sets you apart. I'd suggest, if you haven't done so already, that you record and engineer (plenty of programs for doing it at home) some music, though you may have already, set-up an account at myspace and then share it with us.
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timesignature
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Joined: April 29 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 52
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 20:02 |
allright.. I'm loggin' off. I'll update on what I learn from here later
weed, eh...  |
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Matt Dickens
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Joined: March 12 2006
Location: United States
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Points: 185
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 20:01 |
Proletariat wrote:
timesignature wrote:
I made myself misunderstood. I came on revealing such musical knowledge that I have (I'm makeing fun of myself). Its true. The majority of people who are involved with music think they know it all. My sister is one of them, and me. Sorry for bitchin, I definitely need to find others to play with so I can learn to trust others advice better. I'm just a simple musician who loves music. |
I suggest that you grab a couple of your friends sit down and play, with no prewritten music and NO talking, it helps you learn to appritiate other peoples ideas. |
I'm just trying to give you a hard time, i apologize.
but seriously
'a simple musician'
hahahahahaha
good one
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If it ain't broke don't break it.
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Proletariat
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Joined: March 30 2007
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Points: 1882
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:56 |
timesignature wrote:
thats a good idea. without ant pre written music there is no guide line... improvisation and colaboration. This discussion didn't go the way I predicted, but led me exactly where I need to go. Unexpectedly I have learned the lesson I needed.
1. don't be an ass
2. colaborate, trust other ideas |
oh, and he is right about the weed, by the way
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who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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timesignature
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:54 |
thats a good idea. without ant pre written music there is no guide line... improvisation and colaboration. This discussion didn't go the way I predicted, but led me exactly where I need to go. Unexpectedly I have learned the lesson I needed.
1. don't be an ass
2. colaborate, trust other ideas
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Atomic_Rooster
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Points: 1210
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Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:53 |
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weed is a good thing to have along in such instances... but you didn't hear it from me.
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I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
I need a unique idea!!!!!!!
