I need a unique idea!!!!!!!
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Topic: I need a unique idea!!!!!!!
Posted By: timesignature
Subject: I need a unique idea!!!!!!!
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 09:44
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Why do the drummers where I live suck! They just bang around and the only time signature they can play is 4/4, most don't even know what a time signature is!
Everyone here is tonedeaf and they know absolutey nothing about music theory!
 Maybe it's normal to be the only one who knows anything in your local area... My dad has his masters degree in music theory, and I used to live in knoxville, Tennessee where there are schools of the arts where I studied classical and jazz piano... maybe I'm just lucky to have had some musical education..
but I want to know more, and no one here can teach me. I want to know new ways to experiment with my music. Irregular time signatures, polytonality, and poly rhythm have already been done... I need a new unique idea.  ------------- i luv prog |
Replies:
Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 09:48
| There's nothing you can learn anymore eh? Then start composing. Or get a new instrument. Seriously though, there's always something to learn. Sit in front of your piano and start playing something that no-one would play because it's impossible, and learn that. |
Posted By: paolo.beenees
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 09:53
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You really remind me of an Italian contemporary painter, widely considered a master in abstract or informal art: Lucio Fontana. After experimenting several new ways in painting and sculpture, he found his own successful one - the "Concetto Spaziale" (Space Concept) - just by cutting or punchind the canvas directly. That's just to say: do you really need "irregular time signatures, polytonality and poly rhythm" to make something new in music? ------------- 
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Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 10:07
I am trying, on multiple instruments. I play electric guitar, and play mostly progressive rock, acoustic, and I actually play a style of my own which is kinda like blue grass picking but with an eerie sound. I have grown intrest in African and Indian drumming and hope to one day find someone to teach me these styles. I also play the cello. It is hard though to form an idea of your own when everything you write shows influence of other artists. I don't want to be influence, I want to be the one who influences others. I don't want people to say my music sounds like Cage, Dave Brubeck, or Dream Theater... I want it to be my sound. I have composed music since I remember... mostly ragtime and jazz for piano, but recently a lot of progressive rock. I am best at makeing the music instead of playing, therefore I need band members but it is to hard to get people who actually know what they're doing to cooperate and not interfere with my ideas... that may seem selfish but its how I truly feel. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 10:09
Obviously, you need to take up drumming for yourself, but whatever instrument you prefer at the moment, you will also have to play it, You'll be playing with yourself. That can be quite fun musically or otherwise.
 I am a strictly an improvisational player and would not work well in a band. I have jammed with others including my brother, a drummer, in the '80's. I'm fairly certain you wouldn't be happy with him.
On a serious note, I do play with myself musically speaking. Would love to find a good and economical drum machine.... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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timesignature wrote:Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 10:13
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Playing out of 3/4 or 4/4 naturally takes special creative talent that one is born with. Also, recognize that the generally speaking, from childhood, we are exposed to 4/4 and 3/4 rhythms only.
------------- 
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 10:18
I disagree, and this "certain people are born with" thing can only lead to hero worship. ;P any idiot can become adept at playing in any signature, all it takes is practise. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Morbix
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 10:24
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Honestly, still being in high school here, the best guys I've seen are all in band. Most guys who just pick up drums and start going can only do the 4/4 hi-hat/snare beat that you hear everywhere. The guys in band, being taught how to read music and such, playing percussion (bells, xylophones, timpani), are all better drummers than those with informal training. Maybe you could look up if there's any people in your area who went to your college, Berkely, or any other arts/music college. ------------- Take everything in moderation, including moderation. 
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Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 10:41
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Try playing with other people, see how they work & get inspiration from them. I personally get never get a great creative concept without some sort of influence that I can absorb and learn from- so you can't rely on other people's suggestions- It's a matter of trying things and experiencing them. Draw inspiration from around you. There are countless ways to make new music even in 4/4. Don't pressure yourself into trying to come up with some extremely new and undiscovered form of music- it's not really possible. Music is a constant evolution- taking in influences from other types to create something new. You can't create a new species without a long period of interbreeding and refinement- This applies to music as well. The best information I can personally give you is to diversify the music you listen to. Once you do this- analyze the new music and find how it works- You can combine even small elements from other music into your own music and be very original. With King Crimson for example- The instruments and knowledge of classical music & folk had been around, as were the instruments of rock- it was all a matter of smashing them together in a certain way. I've always thought that everything in music, apart from maybe new technology, is always there- it's just a matter of doing something different with the same things. ------------- 
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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 14:51
Ummm..no. Maybe you've never been around a person with natural talent. It is astonishing. And no, not everyone can become adept at it, regardless of practice. I been around and have seen those who can, and those who can't. That's like saying anyone can become a good painter. -------------
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Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 14:58
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awkward timesignatures are easy to understand and are not awkward, they reveal no musical intelligence in someone except that they do study and try to step out of the box from other music. The talent comes when you no longer try to write in awkward timesignatures but do anyway... The best thing to do is wright without a time signature and follow the feeling of the song, don't force your music to follow rules and you will naturally write in unique ways, but even so, it is the uniqueness of your chord structure that counts. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 15:01
^^^Nicely put The metric must follow the music, not viceversa.------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: MusicForSpeedin
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 15:44
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listen to eric doplhy and ornette coleman and take there ideas to the next level...
They are far out
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 16:07
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A new, unique idea? That's a tall order. I imagine it's all pretty much been done before (experimentalism should not supersede listenability I feel). I suggest you go without a drummer, as you don't need one to create interesting rhythms. If you want to add such percussion, there are many ways you can do it yourself, through overlaying and editing. You could even play the drums yourself this way with limited knowledge of percussive techniques, but with knowledge of percussive/ rhythm theory. I think I'd use the piano as the primary percussion instrument -- and other world instruments for rhythm and texture. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 16:12
like Keith Jarrett ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: mickstafa
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 16:18
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Yeah -- you come on here saying you need X (a drummer) but you want to do Y (the unknown or originality). Look at bands like van der graaf -- no bass player (bass was handled thru organ pedals) and no lead guitarist (guitar is sparingly used) however they are one of the darkest bands. The minute you start asking for X, consider moving on without X; that may give you the originality you seek! |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 16:23
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One of the best moment in Romanian prog happened when the band Sfinx was having for the time only three members: two guitarists and a flutist. They had to create their own, new, way of building progressions in order to make prog-rock and keep the public interested during a full show. It seems that they were brilliant and the fact that they didn't have an actual rhythm section was not a problem for their genius. Unfortunately, nothing got recorded...
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 16:27
Forgive me for finding your post highly amusing. Its normal to live in an area where there are few virtuoso instrumentalists in the area you wish to specialize. Welcome to life. If you really want to learn those techniques, there is a very simple way to go about it; listen to recordings, watch videos, and experiment on your own. Polyrhythms are not actually very hard to create if you understand it intellectually. Additionally, why do you want to learn how to play different percussive techniques and rhythmic variety from other people if you are obsessed with creating a new form or expressing a new idea? Your contrary nature is what's making you unhappy. In order to create something completely new, you need to reject the past ideas, not mix them together differently. It sounds like you are trying to hard to be original, without putting in the time to create personally for yourself and evaluating the work. Its the same in any field of art. Create organically, work beyond your influences, create a vision or concept you wish to achieve, and work to achieve it. Perhaps you suffer from what almost every artist suffers from at some time, laziness (yes laziness). Just keep composing, and eventually you'll strike upon something original (if you have the talent). Of course, its best not to have a predisposition coloring your thoughts when you prepare to start the composition process (such as: make something unique). ------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 17:06
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I can´t see the point of this thread
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 17:32
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I must say that I think it's a funny idea to ask for other people to offer new , unique ideas when considering new/ unique ideas for your music. If someone else suggests it and you use it, then it's a not a new or unique idea by the time you get around to utilising it. Ergo, you're still more of a follower than an innovator. If we heard some of your music, we could offer some suggestions on how to improve it and make it more interesting. Better to come up with your own ideas -- and one that suits the kind of music you can play, and that you like to compose. But in asking such questions, I don't think you're approaching the making of music from the right direction. Make it a personal statement, find your own ways to experiment with your music -- ones that work for you. And remember, being experimental and innovative doesn't make the music good. Draw inspiration from others (you can't help but do that), expand on others' works, but give it your own twist and personality. Better to be favorably compared to others, than considered a worthless composer of noise who resides in your own little, bizarre world. Who knows, you might be responsible for a new subgenre of Prog some day. As for me, I'm hoping to do some experimental electric kazoo music. I like the thought of being a major force behind Kazoo Prog, and Kazoo-Related Prog.  ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 17:56
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You misunderstood me... I don't want anybody else's ideas, I didn't mean to ask for others to share their ideas with me- infact I stated that I hate the interference of other people's advice on my music, no one's ideas can improve my music because the ideas would clash since my mind works different from theirs. There is only one way for music to flow... I'm just feel like I'm not where I want to be in music... like there is something more... no, no one can help me. This is my own task. If there is any way that I can show you some of my experiments explain to me how I can. But as for trying to be a follower of others' ideas, that's not what I want because I'm afraid for my natural stream of music to be contaminated. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 17:59
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Why don't you become a recluse and go live on a private island? And you can upload your music stuff to megaupload.com or other site like that. |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:06
| Tom Waits writes wonderful songs just by f**king around. Do that. |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:10
maybe...
I just want to make it clear of my intention. There is always an idea that is floating out in space that has not yet been thought of. Something simple that is simply overlooked because your thoughts always comeback to what your familiar with. Everthing in music has not been done, infact it is impossible for such a thing to happen. Any one who understands anything about physics, or quantum theory knows that there is an infinite of possibilities with music, but for our minds to take notice of them is difficult. The reason such a thing is said is because the idea does not yet exist! Take Shrodinger's cat for example... if you put the cat in a box, shoot the box with a gun, is the cat dead? according to quantum mechanics the cat is in a half life until revealed to be dead, so as the unobtained ideas of music exist in a half life until enlightened upon a mind. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:22
As a musician since I was 10 years old- I can play in many odd times. I don't pretend I have any natural talent however- I had to work very hard to be able to count in odd times. People with so-called "natural talent" are those who have been exposed to musical training at a young age. I'd be hard pressed to find a 30 year old who just picked up a guitar that can be considered a natural talent. It's a matter of upbringing- not genes, IMO. -------------
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Posted By: MajesterX
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:31
....So you basically started this thread in search of a unique idea from other people- now you're saying you hate other people's advice?? Don't ask if you don't want answers from us. Judging by the last line of your original post- you said poly rhythms and such have already been done, you are looking for a new musical technique- not idea per se. -------------
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Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:33
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That is not what I said at all!!! That is my problem is that so many people are inept at music. I mean to say those with natural talent can play, and as for being around real talent... I have been to boston conservetory with my sister, juliard, and a number of art schools where I have witnessed talent that would not be believed to exist. I have met a nine year old child who would make a majority of these bands like dream theater appear as nothing. I'm not trying to be offensive but I have witnessed true talent among prodigees from around the world that have no fame. Prog rock is talented, but its popularity surpasses its talent. The world of classical music is dying, therefore these irreularities that I have met have no fame. That is why I have a problem... I have seen, experienced, and have converced with geniuses, the rain man of music.
------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:35
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I never asked for others advice! That was simply an assumption made by others because I stated that I needed a new idea, hence not anyone else's. Don't read between the lines. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:41
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the discussion I attempted to make was for others to discuss their own journey in finding their own style. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:42
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don't feel angry, timesignature, some posters tend to approach other people's thoughts as if they were logic puzzles. it's hard to stop =P I'm also a struggling musician in need of inspiration. sometimes I speedread a book and immediately move to my keyboard and play odd improvisations, or just nothing for minutes at a time followed by a big smashing chord that tends to shortcircuit the poor thing - it's great fun, and sounds far more fresh than anything I could write intentionally, but I don't know how to capture this lightning in a bottle :\ ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Kid-A
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:51
It's obviously genes, or any idiot who learnt from a young age could do it. That's like saying a talented swimmer who started to learn to swim at 30 can't be considered a natural talent- well no sh*t, if you leave things to late you can't learn so quick. ------------- 
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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 18:53
Well then I guess I have been lucky to see it, twice at different times. Two young musicians, one on piano(14 yo), one on guitar(19 yo), with the ability to naturally (w/o musical training...played by ear), play Crimson, Genesis, Kansas, and Saga. I witnessed the guitar player play Saga's - On The Loose, what seemed almost note for note right after it was played on the radio as a new release. He listened and taped it during a new release broadcast. After one half hour of relistening to the tape and practicing, he nailed it. If that isn't natural ability, I don't know what it is. Some people are more inclined to pick things up more quickly than others. That is natural ability. -------------
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Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:00
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Timesignature: your thread appears to be merely an excuse to flaunt your supposed musical effetism and condescension. At least that is how you have been portraying yourself (and no I have not been reading into your statements, but rather reading them plainly) Why would you complain and b!tch about people and their "musical ineptitude" if you want this to become a forum for discussion musical journeys? Why mention your problem if you do not wish to discuss it? - These are rhetorical questions If you have a problem with trying to achieve fame, then musical composition isn't something you're cut-out for. We don't live in the Classical or Romantic eras anymore, so composers can't expect to gain recognition because a feeling of self-entitlement they have about their accomplishments. Sure, John Williams, Phillip Glass, etc... are famous and successful (though I would debate the value of Williams' compositions) but neither would tell you they wrote their music for fame. Glass wouldn't have written Einstein at the Beach if he wanted to be famous (its more infamous than famous for its lack of intermission and attempts to explain general relativity), he would have just kept his job as a professional wrestler (El Diablo). So, despite whatever your intentions may be, your comments appear to be contradictory and confused (as evidenced by the many posters who appear to have posted to your dissatisfaction).  - clowns for you------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:06
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The most origional thing you could do would be to mutilate kittens, record the sounds, and mix them into a crazy 555/666 signature while incorperating bits of Amizonian tribal music and free experimentation on unused instruments such as the comb and wax paper, armpit, broken music boxes, and electric jug (like the 13th floor elivators) but thats just an idea ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:08
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that is not what I meant to do. Notice the title of the thread. True I do discuss the fact that those in my local area are inept at music, but this was not a comment for discussion, this was my narrating of the story of my musical journey. Many things said since then have been due to other comments made that were not of the original conversation, therefore my replies had to do with the subject of those who commented. Therefore, you were not reading between the lines, but you were reading what was said by and in reply to those who were. Therefore your translation of this thread has strayed from the initial. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:12
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what does effetism mean? I'm not being sarcastic - I couldn't find it in the thesaures.
------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:13
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^^^
in that case I have been playing guitar for 2 years. I practise my @$$ off. I have tried to learn and many scales, modes etc. as I can. however I never use them as I tend to like to use melody and harmony only sparingly. I tend tward pure dissonance and noise (think sonic youth) I am completley unable to comprehend time signatures as of now but im trying i swear.
ps. you could go like the velvet underground and get a drummer with no experience or theory, that would kill ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:17
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where did the subject of achieving fame come from? I discussed those who would not achieve fame who deserve it, and in no way acted as though I was working toward such a thing. There are millions of people trying to make it in music, I would be one in such a vast number. The probability of me achieving fame without any connections, editing equipment other than my home computer, and a rickety squire strat is one in a trillion. No, music is a hobby, my career is in the field of science and mathematics. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:21
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imagine... a section of such guitar playing technicality as Between the Buried and Me on that one song with the 7/8 and 13/8 scalar begining, but with a thrashing off beat drummer. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: Matt Dickens
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:24
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Has anyone ever noticed that about 99% of prog fans seem convinced that they know more than everyone else. I am not like this. I do, in fact, know everything. ------------- If it ain't broke don't break it. |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:26
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Found effetism... I have not attempted to flaunt about myself, I only praised others that I have witnessed with such talent. The one thing that is implied by my thread is that I am not of such musical talent, and an no where near such talent. I'm sorry if I sounded like a dick... I'm still just a teenager with rageing horomones. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:28
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In my post, you wasn't referring to you (singular) but to you (plural). My point was that people who are really dedicated to composition don't normally care a lot (obviously they do to some degree) about fame, otherwise everyone would make r&b influenced pop music with lame innuendos and leak sex tapes of themselves onto the internet. Fame is not a requisite to the creative process, and it can be negative in fact (the strain of success has driven many artists to suicide and even... selling out - in order to keep the level of success they had). Think what Yes and Genesis might have created if they had not been worried about financial success and fame (perhaps 20 more years of Close to the Edge/Selling England By the Pound quality work). Effetism is the noun form of the adjective effete. Ok, I'm going to stop wasting our time by continuing this discussion. ------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:29
Whats in my pocketses?
yea I didnt think so B***! ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Matt Dickens
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:34
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You little sumbitch, when they learned me real good about life in school they telled me not to take no crap from nobody. Suck it.
------------- If it ain't broke don't break it. |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:35
Sorry, I will now prosede to "suck it"  ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Matt Dickens
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:38
------------- If it ain't broke don't break it. |
Posted By: Matt Dickens
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:39
Well, dickweed, you can't even spell procede right. Did noone ever teach you how to use English good? ------------- If it ain't broke don't break it. |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:42
you must excuse my ADD it can be quite annoying.
also my aixelsid seems to get in the way of proppre garmmer and pselling at timse
and ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Matt Dickens
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:44
 good tymes------------- If it ain't broke don't break it. |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:46
Actually, if you really do know everything, then you would be worshiping me right now. Ex: "Oh, Atomic Underscore Rooster, thou art the most radioactive of male ostriches!" ------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:46
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I made myself misunderstood. I came on revealing such musical knowledge that I have (I'm makeing fun of myself). Its true. The majority of people who are involved with music think they know it all. My sister is one of them, and me. Sorry for bitchin, I definitely need to find others to play with so I can learn to trust others advice better. I'm just a simple musician who loves music. ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:48
I suggest that you grab a couple of your friends sit down and play, with no prewritten music and NO talking, it helps you learn to appritiate other peoples ideas. ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Atomic_Rooster
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:53
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weed is a good thing to have along in such instances... but you didn't hear it from me.
------------- I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers. |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:54
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thats a good idea. without ant pre written music there is no guide line... improvisation and colaboration. This discussion didn't go the way I predicted, but led me exactly where I need to go. Unexpectedly I have learned the lesson I needed.
1. don't be an ass
2. colaborate, trust other ideas ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 19:56
oh, and he is right about the weed, by the way ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Matt Dickens
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 20:01
I'm just trying to give you a hard time, i apologize.
but seriously
'a simple musician'
hahahahahaha
good one ------------- If it ain't broke don't break it. |
Posted By: timesignature
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 20:02
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allright.. I'm loggin' off. I'll update on what I learn from here later
weed, eh... ------------- i luv prog |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 29 2007 at 20:29
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Apologies for reading certain things into your post regarding intent (at least when it came to my second post) than were actually there (multitasking). I wasn't quite sure what the real focus of this discussion was meant to be. Still haven't reviewed this whole thread for fear of being contaminated by what others have said (I don't mind approaching this from a more ignorant standpoint). If you're not an extraordinarily talented instrumentalist at this stage, emulation makes for good practice. Then plow your own furrow. If you need more music lessons, well, there are plenty of materials available. As for contamination -- too late. Even innovative musical approaches are not born in a total vacuum -- we build on others work either consciously or subconsciously. But I'm sure you'll think of a good hook (no, not Dr. Hook) that sets you apart. I'd suggest, if you haven't done so already, that you record and engineer (plenty of programs for doing it at home) some music, though you may have already, set-up an account at myspace and then share it with us. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: one hand clap
Date Posted: April 30 2007 at 01:22
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If you want to help your creativity just sit in front of whatever instrument you play (I play guitar and piano, but I find piano works much better) and just forget everything you have been taught about music. Just play anything; bang on the keys, hit random notes , just play something. Eventually you'll stumble across something that'll make you stop and play it again. You should record anything that you think is worth keeping right away or you might forget it. Just play. I've sat in front of my piano just improvising for hours on end and come up with nothing. But I've also played for 10 minutes and come up with an entire song idea. Don't worry about what you have learned in a music class. Those things only help when playing with others or communicating musical ideas. Take music class to learn how to play and how to improve your playing rather than to learn what to play. Also, don't play with a metronome or anything that keeps a beat, just play whatever comes to mind. Doing this, I've realized that I'm playing in bizarre time signatures (ex. 11/8) only after i recorded it and listened to it again. This is the best way (at least for me) to truly make something creative. Try it but remember that what works for one person might not work for another. Good luck. |
Posted By: maups2
Date Posted: April 30 2007 at 04:21
I agree, this works for me as well. I think you should try approaching music with feeling over technicality. Perhaps instead of thinking "Oh, I think I should make this interesting and put in a 7/8 section here", maybe try and alter the mood of the piece. For example, I find that riffs in 7/8 seem to sound anxious, and riffs in 5/4 kind of keep you waiting for something. Maybe thats just me. Musical theory is great, but it can also be imprisoning. Don't be afraid to go out of the box (go out of key). Also, if you're playing something and it isn't going so great, stop and think of what you wouldn't normally play, then play that and milk it for all it's worth. You might find that some good comes out of it. Anyways, I don't know if any of this will help you, but as a fellow frustrated musician, good luck. Oh, and as for a "unique idea", record a riff/melody. Then reverse it. Play the new riff/melody back. It yields some interesting results. (and yes there is really nothing new or unique about this technique but you might as well give it a shot) |
Posted By: zero_or_die77
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 19:51
oh sh*t i know what you mean when you're trying to find a "unique idea". it seems like everything has been done already! it's really discouraging, especially as someone who can only play drums. playing with you helped me out a sh*tload in learning new styles and time signatures. (haha, i still practice that stuff you wrote. we seriously need to get together and play ...i'm def not anywhere near great at drumming, but i can at least try to put your thoughts in motion. and learn and hopefully get better as time progresses) . what i've been trying to do on drums is search for strange new sounds that i can apply to a song. doing something out of the ordinary, but still sound good. it's so f**kin tough though! i took another drummers advice on going and just sitting out in the woods and letting the animals and sounds of the winds and birds give me ideas.
so if i were to give any advice it would be just that. sometimes you need to stopping searching and digging around for something, when it may be able to be found in the obvious and simple. i would love to incorporate many different styles (ex. jazz, hardcore, death, black, emo, classical, symphony, etc.) into A song. yes into one song. one awesomely long, very technical song. with the best of all worlds. and if mrs goddamn bishop would ever let us play, cause it's so hard moving 11 pieces of drum equipement around. like i said, i'm not very good but i do have ideas running through my head all the time. and i need to get a keyboard. peace nigga ------------- 
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(i like that smiley)Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:00
OK, am I the only one to wonder if the group's name is not a joke of some kind ?  P.S. I agree with the suggestion that he play with himself (insert Beavis & Butthead snicker & snort here) ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:02
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Just think once, then. ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: May 17 2007 at 21:24
I'm trying to save myself for when it becomes necessary. In the meantime I look for threads I can post to. I wonder what I do when there aren't any ...  ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 05:32
This is good advice - "The Musical Box" is made up of a load of tiny, simple ideas, artfully melded together to make a large and complex whole.
I'm glad to see that even drum tutors give the nature advice - it seems a bit wierd, but it was good enough for Beethoven (the song of a yellowhammer allegedly inspired his 5th symphony) and Messaien (one of my favourite composers, he went around with a tape recorder so that he could transcribe birdsong - did he infringe their copyright?
).If you're a player, play.
You can't just sit down and invent a new idea - it just happens, but only through constant effort. It's like a lottery - lots of tickets but only one winner, so the more you have, the more likely you are to win. ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 05:48
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I have an idea that might help.
Have you heard on Eno's Oblique Strategy cards? This is a set of cards and on each card is an instruction. Pick a card out of the box at random and act upon the instruction. The instructions range from:-Try a different Key-Make a Cup of Tea-Swap Instruments...get my drift? It worked for me when I was writing music.It helped with writer's block. The 'cards' used to be downloadable as a pdf. Just a thought. ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 05:58
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pretty cool, Lee, never heard of these. I suppose one could make their own set..
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Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 06:01
Exactly.Hoping that you don't get writer's block making them.  -------------
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 06:05
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Eno's Oblique Strategies.Just press the button and...
http://music.hyperreal.org/artists/brian_eno/oblique/oblique.html -------------
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: zero_or_die77
Date Posted: May 19 2007 at 00:23
i also think that every instrument should have it's part. each playing in time and supporting each other, but all the while being seperate in style and all of them standing out and straying from the norm. producing it's own style as the song progresses. i hope that makes sense. mixing simple, yet technical. -------------
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Posted By: randyhiatt
Date Posted: May 30 2007 at 18:43
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"teenager with raging hormones" is what you sound like to me, thanks for clearing that up.
I would argue virtuosity is not a requirement for good music. Honesty is however. Since you are using typical instruments I'd suggest playing with their sounds and voicings, push the envelope looking for new textures (take the time to do this), from these efforts will come your new idea.
Always know what you trying to say (musically)? The story is king, once that is finilized all the pieces will fall into place. But without a story it's all just a bunch of chicken scratches to me.
Convert your painting to music, each color is a timbre.
Relax a bit when playing with others, your expectations are choaking I would assume.
------------- Randy |
Posted By: nightlamp
Date Posted: June 01 2007 at 13:26
The trouble with experimentation in music is there's no magic formula. No one "knows" how to experiment-- that's why it's experimental! Seriously though, and I mean this with absolutely no disrespect: it's really easy to get lost in trying to create something entirely unique that's "never been done before". A chasing after the wind, so to speak... Focus more on developing your own musical voice using the tools at your disposal, and keep a creative eye (and ear) open for ways to experiment with what you have. Enjoy the process of experimentation and your own personal musical growth. |