CD rot |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21121 |
Posted: May 05 2007 at 06:19 | ||
^ and then lightning strikes ... murphy's law is infallible!
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: May 05 2007 at 06:52 | ||
I have had 2 HD failures so far.
Thats why I thought it worth a mention.
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rileydog22
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 24 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 8844 |
Posted: May 05 2007 at 11:26 | ||
You can always back your stuff up to DVD-R's, then put them in storage somewhere.
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Drew
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2005 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 12600 |
Posted: May 05 2007 at 11:27 | ||
how do you do that?? |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: May 15 2007 at 17:36 | ||
It takes a lot of DVD-R's to back up a hard disc. About 30 for a 130GB drive.
If you are just backing up your CD collection then you'll get 5 CD's onto one DVD-R. If they are compressed as mp3 then you're looking at maybe 50 albums per DVD-R -though lossless systems such as FLAC are audibly better you'll probably only get 10 CD's onto a DVD.
Only problem then is that the DVD will also eventually rot.
I prefer backing up onto a USB hard drive, which is then stored in a cool dry place. At £100 each this may appear extravagant, but what value would you put on your data if you lost it?
The rotting is an oxidisation of the aluminium layer. This was first pointed out as a potential problem by Nimbus back in the early 80's, but was discredited by the major manufacturers at the time who didn't want anything to sully the reputation of their sparkily new format.
As the audio data is recorded from the inside out and the rot usually starts at the rim where the seal betwix the acrylic layers is porous, you maybe lucky and be able to rip the CD before the rot spreads into the data area.
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What?
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purplepiper
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 280 |
Posted: July 25 2007 at 00:37 | ||
I've never heard of this before! I'm scared, really. I've spent a lot of money on my humble cd collection, which contains music that is hard to find. I don't have a good enough computer to back it all up either. All my cd's have been bought in recent times though. Hopefully they'll hold up. My music means so much to me! The thought of loosing it is horrifying! Is there nothing we can do? Does all plastic rot like this? I guess in a few years i'll burn all of my cd's in case one of them rots. And then a few years later i'll burn those etc. That's the best solution I have right now. You say it begins with a sort of discoloration? I think i've seen strange blurry patches on my cd's before. Now i'm paranoid! This is really bad news to me. Better to now about it though I guess.
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for those about to prog, we salute you.
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Dim
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 17 2007 Location: Austin TX Status: Offline Points: 6890 |
Posted: July 25 2007 at 00:39 | ||
I listen to a lot of my dads old cd's from the late 80's, and they dont do that. hmmm...
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purplepiper
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 280 |
Posted: July 25 2007 at 00:46 | ||
oxidisation you say...this can only happen in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps we are going to have to keep our original cd's in vaccums, while we have a backup collection of copies for everyday play. There are also sealants that can suppress oxidisation. I wonder if they can be incorporated into future cds, if they're still around then!
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for those about to prog, we salute you.
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Archer
Forum Newbie Joined: June 06 2007 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 38 |
Posted: July 25 2007 at 07:59 | ||
I doubt that manufacturers will allot any time or money to the problem - what with the, apparent, successor already being rolled out in the form of digital, downloadable files. Not much A&R funding needed there.
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purplepiper
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 280 |
Posted: July 25 2007 at 22:50 | ||
yeah, it's obvious that music is going digital, but I like having that physical tangibility that comes with cds. I wish they'd just make quality cd's or some other tangible disk. I guess i'd be just as happy if they packaged cd's just as they do, but there's a computer chip inside or something and they made radios that'd play em'. Yeah, I know they'll never spend any extra money of dealing with the problem.
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for those about to prog, we salute you.
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johnobvious
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 11 2006 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 1361 |
Posted: July 25 2007 at 22:55 | ||
My first CD was Big Generator. Got it in 1987 when it first came out. I better go check it now that I know of this plague!
I guess I will somehow soldier on if it's roached. |
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Biggles was in rehab last Saturday
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Archer
Forum Newbie Joined: June 06 2007 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 38 |
Posted: July 26 2007 at 12:19 | ||
I have a large collection and am still to see any visible deterioration. I'm hoping it's just an isolated incident with few CD manufacturers,or perhaps, an error in the manufacturing process. Pigs might fly!
Edited by Archer - July 26 2007 at 12:19 |
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Guillermo
Prog Reviewer Joined: November 28 2004 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 814 |
Posted: July 26 2007 at 12:41 | ||
I recently found that two CDs from my late father`s Classical Music collection have little black decolorations on the label. I couldn`t play them. They are damaged.
I also had "Traffic-on the Road" on CD. Unfortunately, the CD player has some mechanical problems, the CD fell from the Cd player`s Tray into the CD player and it became damaged because when I opened the CD player`s tray again, it scratched the CD`splaying surface! Later, I also discovered that the CD was broken!
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Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime.
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Analog Kid
Forum Newbie Joined: March 07 2008 Location: El Paso, Texas Status: Offline Points: 2 |
Posted: March 10 2008 at 00:59 | ||
I purchased my first compact disc in 1986, Supertramp's Crime of the Century. It's still playing fine. CD "rot" can and does happen, but I think it is a fairly rare and isolated defect. Out of the 100's of Millions of CD's that have been manufactured and sold world-wide, there does not seem to be a plague of CD rot rearing it's ugly head. As long as a CD was manufactured correctly, and no oxygen was trapped between the aluminum layer and the plastic resin at the time of pressing, CD rot should never occur. If you are concerned with this, especially if you have already been a victim, take some of the other posters recomendations and choose a back-up format. You should at least make copies of hard-to-find and rare discs.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: March 10 2008 at 11:31 | ||
My main problem occurs with dropping the "jewel" case on my hard floors. I do have an old Lark's Tongue's where the "chrome" has flaked off the outer edge. (Should take a pic later and upload.) It was rejected when I tried to sell it to a used place, but I think it still plays OK. It's not a remaster so screw it.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12812 |
Posted: March 10 2008 at 14:49 | ||
CD rot was acknowledged over a decade by the CD manufacturers. Indeed, it was reckoned in the UK press at the time you should be able to return the damaged disc to the manufacturer (not the retailer - even if they are in business) and get a replacement.
As a point of information. A CD consists typical of ~1mm of polycarbonate encoded with laser readable pits, which are aluminised with ~ 70nm of pure aluminium (I've been told by my local metallurgists), and this is in turn is coated with an acrylic based lacquer, which will then have the individual info printed on it. So called audiophile discs have gold instead of aluminium deposited (but do your sums, at 70nm by 5 inch diameter, how can they justify doubling the price of the CD?). Rot is either oxidation or hydrolysis of the aluminium layer i.e. pure aluminium can't survive in earth's atmosphere without forming a protective oxide or hydroxide layer which then protects the underlaying aluminium metal. Aluminium oxide is white and larger volume than its parent metal hence the acrylic coating with the contaminated aluminium are forced off the polycarbonate. Rot is proabably due to oxygen or moisture permeation through a few tens of microns of lacquer, getting at the aluminium layer: this was reported to be the main problem. However, the CD manufacturers did claim well over a decade ago, they were using or moving to non-permeable lacquers. In some instances way back, the centre hole of a CD was punched out exposing the aluminium to the environment. Chromium is not used since potentially it is an environmental pollutant, silver is far too expensive - besides gold is used already.
Do it yourself burn CDs were claimed to have a 2 year life, a decade ago, especially if you didn't store the CD in a box and let it get exposed to sunlight - apparently UV damages the coating, which reacts with the laser burning treatment to give the pit encoding. However, compilations I burnt in 1994 are completely playable - maybe this was a con to get you to keep copying CDs, hence buying more burnable CDs! Edited by Dick Heath - March 10 2008 at 14:55 |
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CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
Posted: March 10 2008 at 15:39 | ||
Get as many of your friends, relatives & family into the same music, bands, albums that you are into; either by their buying the albums or your sharing them. That way the risk is spread One of my best friends is also a music buff. We buy 2-3 new CDs ( I tend to also browse the 2nd hand shops, too) per month minimum, then burn a copy for the other. SO far, I've got him now BUYING Drive-By Truckers albums, and he's got me filling out my White Stripes & Neil Young collection (among others in both our stashes).
Sometimes, we buy an new release, burn it for the other , only to find out we both bought it ( Los Lobos - the Town & the City; McCartney - Chaos & Creation; Mars Volta - Bedlam; Black Crowes - Warpaint; among a few) . |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: March 11 2008 at 10:32 | ||
Speaking from personal experience, CD have proven to have a decent longevity compared with other formats, I can't report any problems with my collection so far other than that KC CD. I'd like to think this fine collection of music will be usable and enjoyable by my future offspring, but I'll be dead one day and at that point I won't care anymore due to being dead.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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jimmy_row
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 11 2007 Location: Hibernation Status: Offline Points: 2601 |
Posted: March 11 2008 at 22:58 | ||
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Signature Writers Guild on strike
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: March 12 2008 at 06:58 | ||
Anyone remember the days when a gig for hard drive was huge? Yeah, that's right, I'm probably older than dirt. |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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