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erik neuteboom 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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 Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:23 |
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Ivan, I play guitar and last year I have worked on the solo in Firth Of Fifth and the acoustic pieces Horizons and Blood On The Rooftops. I can tell you that I was stunned by the very tasteful way Hackett succeeds to blend different styles and techniques, he has a blues heart, he was also impressed by Robert Fripp ("he named it musical karate"), he was classically trained but also interested in using sensational effect pedals, all these elements can be traced in his varied and dynamic guitar style.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:29 |
 erik neuteboom wrote:
Ivan, I play guitar and last year I have worked on the solo in Firth Of Fifth and the acoustic pieces Horizons and Blood On The Rooftops. I can tell you that I was stunned by the very tasteful way Hackett succeeds to blend different styles and techniques, he has a blues heart, he was also impressed by Robert Fripp ("he named it musical karate"), he was classically trained but also interested in using sensational effect pedals, all these elements can be traced in his varied and dynamic guitar style. |
After many years I bought a good and expensive guitar (Well a guy owed me money and had nothing, so he offered me one from his store -instead of loosing everything, well, I accepted-), and after almost 20 years, I'm working trying to learn the tapping technique.
It's much more harder than working with flashes, sometimes I give up after 2 or 3 hours with finger pain because it's exhausting.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 21 2007 at 15:32
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:31 |
Well, once I hope to learn to play piano 
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:36 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
erik neuteboom wrote:
Ivan, I play guitar and last year I have worked on the solo in Firth Of Fifth and the acoustic pieces Horizons and Blood On The Rooftops. I can tell you that I was stunned by the very tasteful way Hackett succeeds to blend different styles and techniques, he has a blues heart, he was also impressed by Robert Fripp ("he named it musical karate"), he was classically trained but also interested in using sensational effect pedals, all these elements can be traced in his varied and dynamic guitar style. |
After many years I bought a good and expensive guitar (Well a guy owed me money and had nothing, so he offered me one from his store -instead of loosing everything, well, I accepted-), and after almost 20 years, I'm working trying to learn the tapping technique.
It's much more harder than working with flashes, sometimes I give up after 2 or 3 hours with finger pain because it's exhausting.
Iván |
Electric guitar?
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Jesus Gabriel
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:39 |
I play Spanish/classical guitar and I have even had some flamenco guitar lessons, that's my second best favorite music, once I hope to found a Dutch Prog Andaluz band featuring guest musician Arjen Lucassen on slide guitar  !
Edited by erik neuteboom - April 21 2007 at 15:40
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:41 |
Electro Acustic.
The electric mics (Very flat, chips almnost like paper added in the fingerboard and inside the guitar) can be added without a plug that affect the integrity of the wood, the mics are very small but very powerfull.
I know it's not the best way to learn it, but according to the ,manuals it works......now it's only a matter of talent or lack of it.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 21 2007 at 15:44
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:43 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
I play Spanish/classical guitar and I have even had some flamenco guitar lessons, that's my second best favorite music, once I hope to found a Dutch Prog Andaluz band featuring guest musician Arjen Lucassen on slide guitar ! |
So you're like Maurice Leenaars
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Jesus Gabriel
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:46 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Electro Acustic.
The electric mics can be added with a plug that doesn't affect theintegrity of the wood, the mic is very small but very powerfull.
I know it's not the best way to learn it, but according to the ,manuals it works......now it's only a matter of talent or lack of it.
Iván |
Those are tough to play, the strings are tense as hell and your fingers start to set fire after 15 minutes .
Your fingers at first are meant to hurt, so a "hard shell" develops at the tips. Then, it will be quite easy to do it. Remember, baby steps
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Jesus Gabriel
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:48 |
Don't tell me about the fingers, I already notoiced it, now are red and with little skin, the next step is what we call in spanish CALLO (hard shell I believe).
Iván
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 15:51 |
So you're good to go  put your fingers on the hot iron and you won't notice a thing
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Jesus Gabriel
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Atomic_Rooster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1210
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 16:28 |
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If your fingers hurt that much, then you haven't been playing consistently enough or haven't fixed the tension or action. I practice around 30 mins to an hour a day and don't feel pain when I play for 2-3 hours straight.
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I am but a servant of the mighty Fripp, the sound of whose loins shall forever be upon the tongues of his followers.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 16:33 |
Atomic_Rooster wrote:
If your fingers hurt that much, then you haven't been playing consistently enough or haven't fixed the tension or action. I practice around 30 mins to an hour a day and don't feel pain when I play for 2-3 hours straight. |
Yes, probably, I'm tunniing it and graduating the tension with the mic adaptor (still don't trust that much in my ears) but it's normal when you started two weeks ago, but yes normally they hurt after the first hour and a half.
At my age (42) it's only for fun, not to be a pro LOL.
Iván
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 16:36 |
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For me it took many, many years before I could really play something to impress my friends and family, it's a long and tough road if you want to play guitar seriously!
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 16:45 |
Progger wrote:
(...)
First people were claiming he invented the tapping technique but it was proved it has been around since the 50's. |
I have only found documentary evidence that two-handed tapping has been in use since 1969.
Single-handed tapping has been around much longer - perhaps as far back as the violinist Locatelli - but what you can do with it is limited in comparison, so it's fair to consider two-handed tapping as a newer (and different) technique.
Progger wrote:
Now people are claiming he was the first rock guitarist to use it  Poppy cock...I suggest you go listen to some Cream albums for starters. |
Which tracks?
Or are you still referring to single-handed tapping?
I've been trying to find out where Hackett might have got the idea for two-handed tapping from, and have pretty much turned a blank - I can't even link him to Emmett.
Edited by Certif1ed - April 21 2007 at 16:47
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 17:08 |
soundspectrum wrote:
not so much weird as it is unique |
His weirdness is unique.
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Hacketeer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2006
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 167
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 17:43 |
Nothing controversial from me, Hackett is one of my favourite players, I find it difficult to fault any of his playing.
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"Just keep me nose clean, egg, chips & beans, I'm always full of steam"
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 17:46 |
When Hackett left Genesis in 1977, for many progheads Hackett sol was the 'real Genesis' and if you listen to especially Voyage Of An Acolyte and Spectral Mornings, it is the real symphonic prog Genesis 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 18:11 |
erik neuteboom wrote:
When Hackett left Genesis in 1977, for many progheads Hackett sol was the 'real Genesis' and if you listen to especially Voyage Of An Acolyte and Spectral Mornings, it is the real symphonic prog Genesis |
That's a good point Erik, Genesis sounds more keyboard oriented than they really are (Despite it's clear Tony was never a fan of soloing) beause the guitar sounded almost as a second keyboard.
As Cert explained the double handed tapping technique is hitting the strings almost as a piano key, so Hackett solos are usually mistaken for keyboards, take Firth of Fifth, I have a cousin who is an amazing metal guitar player, he's like 10 years younger than me so he always came to my house to borrow me the Maiden or Sabbath albums.
One day he came while I was listening Firth of Fifth,and he just couldn't believe Steve's solo was guitar, I had to take my DVD copy of one Gabriel Genesis era concert (Belgium TV) and when the camera focused on Steve's fingers then and only then he believed me it was really a guitar with no aditional device.
He talked me about the fabulous MIDI guitar module he just got (You attach this gear to your guitar or bass to make it sound like a second keyboard.....Martin Rosser uses it with Magenta) but he never knew that in the 70's somebody was making that kind of sound, with nothing except his fingers, it's not what he would ever play but his jaw was in the floor.
This atmosphere started to fade not when Steve left, but already in The Lamb, when their sound changed radically to return in lesser degree with ATOTT and more clearly in W&W.
So Geensis sound was not a product of Tony OR Steve, was a joint effort of Tony AND Steve combining their sounds, amazing team work.
When Hackett left Genesis, neither Mike on studio (more limited as guitar player even when a very solid bass player) or Daryll on stage (Great Jazz player though), but Steve continued using the same technique so he blended with almost every keyboardist he played with, I believe he does the exact work with Julian Colbeck in Tokyo Tapes, but Tony had nobody to work this with him.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 21 2007 at 18:20
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 18:17 |
Funny to read your story Ivan because so many progheads are confused when they listen to 76-77 Genesis: it's very hard to recognize the sound of a guitar and a keyboard! By the way, I hope a record company will release the BBC 1977 live recordings of the W&W tour because it does justice to Hackett his awesome contribution to Genesis rather than the poor Seconds Out on which, as you mentioned, it's like as if somebody has lowered the volume button of Hackett his amplifier  ...
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: April 21 2007 at 18:57 |
I have never had a problem hearing Hackett in Genesis. Its why I became such a big fan of his, before he went solo.
Thing is when I used to say to my friends how much I enjoyed his playing, they'd comment on how you could rarely hear him.
It was then that Irealised that people hear things in different ways.
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Is Steve Hackett's guitar work... Weird?
