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TheLamb 
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Joined: November 18 2005
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 Topic: Is Steve Hackett's guitar work... Weird?
Posted: April 17 2007 at 09:29 |
Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who hears it, but it sometimes seems to me that Steve Hackett is a very odd guitarist... He is outstaning, don't get me wrong, I love his work... Genesis and Solo... He's a great composer and he ussualy has a really amazing sound and feel to his playing... His acoustic work is amazing, When he plays those gentle clean guitar parts my hearts always melts... but sometimes, his solos, especially agressively distorted ones just sound horrible.... It's like something is terribly wrong with this guy... Hes a genius on the guitar, but some of his solos just sound like... sh*t.
OK, so you could give countless examples of pieces he played in where the guitar work is completly perfect and heavinly... I do agree, he is a MASTER... but listen to "The Knife" solo, from 'Genesis Live'. Hackett changed the original solo by Anthony Philips, that's understandable... but why does he sound like a 14 year old that has started playing guitar last month? The phrasing is nice here and there... but also... its mostly very odd... and the sound is bad, plus every time he pulls, the guitar sounds like it's trying to kill itself.
Whats up with this guy?
opinions?
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Heptade
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Joined: May 19 2005
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 09:48 |
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I see the point, but I don't quite agree...his style is certainly distinctive, and he seems to enjoy throwing in odd effects and techniques, which is the appeal of his playing. You either like it or you don't. When he plays more conventionally, it is obvious that he could play in any style. An exceptional talent.
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The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning
And all the rest is just bullsh*t
-Steve Kilbey
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bhikkhu
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 09:51 |
 Heptade wrote:
I see the point, but I don't quite agree...his style is certainly distinctive, and he seems to enjoy throwing in odd effects and techniques, which is the appeal of his playing. You either like it or you don't. When he plays more conventionally, it is obvious that he could play in any style. An exceptional talent. |
I couldn't have said it any better. 
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andu
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 09:52 |
I have no technical expertise to bring to this debate, but from a listener's point of view (mine), they seem allright to me, nothing wrong or disturbing.
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cuncuna
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 10:02 |
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What I enjoy the most in any Steve Hackett performance is exactly how he manages to use the electric guitar as something else. You won't find another guitarist with such an inventive technique (leaving Zappa aside). I love his "monster" sound in "The return of the giant hoghweed"
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ĦBeware of the Bee!
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Snow Dog
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 10:15 |
The knife is what turned on th hackett in the first place...so no problem there.
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TheLamb
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 10:39 |
I agree... and let's not make this an argument in which I am considered the "Hackett hater". Quite the opposite! I love him.... most of his work, atleast....
In the studio his guitar never really sounds like it's trying to kill itself... but that side of him that is just, somewhat unprofessional is still apparent (I use harsh words, I know... I couldn't find a moe gentle way of putting this). That slight "inexactness" in rythm, those subtle "misplaces of staccati" (from my point of view, they are sometimes misplaces) sometimes makes his melodies sound a bit discontinuous, and inaccurate compared to most professional guitarists... Yes, maybe that "imperfection" is part of the magic in his playing, indeed, it is sometimes MAGICAL, to say the least.... but still, sometimes (espcially live) it just sounds WRONG.
He has obviously made progress throughout the years. For instance, In my opinion, his performance on Seconds Out (77) is better than his performance in Genesis Live (72). But ALL of his live performances from the Gabriel Era especially (There are plenty on YouTube), just don't sound good to me...
Maybe the fact that he sounds more "imperfect" in the Gabriel era means that he plays like this intentionally, and as Genesis began the long walk towards the mainstream he used this "technique" less often..., or maybe it means that Hackett didn't have the money for expensive guitar equipment back in the Gabriel era... I don't know... I don't think it matters... Well this post isn't going anywhere so I might as well finish by saying that I love Hackett and he's brilliant despite all the mean things I say... 
p.s, snow dog... what do you mean?
Edited by TheLamb - April 17 2007 at 10:40
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Snow Dog
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 10:40 |
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Well I think we answered your points already.....we disagree.
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stewe
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 10:42 |
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Hackett is surely one my favourite guitarists. He can create the most beautiful and innventive guitar parts. But I feel when it comes to improvisations (extended soloing) or playing stuff that he didn't write, he lacks something at these points imo. But it isn't important and doesn't decrease my affection to him at all. He has his own guitar world and maybe he can't adapt for some guitar conventions or techniques.
It's a bit similar case like with Howe, I admire him, but when he plays live and adds some impromptu solos or play stuff (of Rabin, Banks..) sometimes I find it even unlistenable.
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King Zappa
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 10:43 |
There is absolutly nothing wrong with Hacket on the Knife, and there is a special place in hades for those who say otherwise. A place where weird stuff happens.... Butt stuff....
appologies to all
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TheLamb
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 10:53 |
Snow Dog wrote:
The knife is what turned on th hackett in the first place...so no problem there. |
ok I understand and respect that you disagree... I don't disagree with you disagreeing... just... could you further explain this post?
its intriguing... I just didn't really understand... :S
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chopper
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 11:15 |
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Like most others, I can't hear anything wrong with "The Knife" solo at all.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 11:19 |
TheLamb wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
The knife is what turned on th hackett in the first place...so no problem there. |
ok I understand and respect that you disagree... I don't disagree with you disagreeing... just... could you further explain this post?
its intriguing... I just didn't really understand... :S |
Its probaby because like a bit of "noise" in guitar playing. You like his acoustic playing, which I am less keen on. Its a matter of taste.
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clarke2001
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 11:21 |
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Hackett is far from being favourite guitarist of mine, but I respect him a lot. I had just purchased Voyage Of The Acolyte yesterday, giving this guy's solo career chance for the second time; I don't like Spectral Mornings much.
But I like his style. And sound.
And IMHO that childish, dissonant, distorted and not-perfectly-controled guitar parts are the BEST thing Hacket did in Genesis. It fits as a counterpoint to that mellow-tron parts just nicely, adding an extra dimension to the band. Honestly. Sometimes I can almost feel the presence of some weird...ehm...jazz-rock somewhere inside the epics of "Nursery Cryme".
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iguana
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 11:29 |
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well, TheLamb, welcome to one of those wonders of progressive music,
where instrumentalists and especially guitarists at times take odd twists
and turns and, yes, risks in order to keep things interesting for
themselves and ideally their audience. let's leave the unimaginative and bland stuff to the so-called mainstream masters like mark knopfler (*yawn*), eric clapton (*snooze*) and (latterday) santana (*boooooooooooring!*)
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progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false?
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lighthouse
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Joined: March 03 2007
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 12:24 |
Hackett deals in atmospheres that's his style .. sometimes gritty or kinda nasty is part of that artistic approach .. I love it , always have 
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GraemeD
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Joined: April 02 2007
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 13:12 |
...There's a great solo in Dancing With The Moonlit Knight if you doubt his technical ability... Hackett was also using the 2-handed tapping technique when Eddie Van Halen was still in Nappies! He was there at the inception of sweep-picking too! He may not have played as fast as Howe... but no1 does... not even now I dont think (I'm thinking of South Side of the Sky and Close to the Edge intro in particular), with the possible exception of all those shred guys.
His (Hackett's) solo work encompasses a huge number of musical styles! Pop, prog, world music, jazz, metal, acoustic, classical.
Not a fan of his latest contribution "Wild Orchids" tho... good record, but not great.
I do love "To a Close" and "Dark Night in Toytown"
I think his Darktown album beats it tho! Gonna go put that on now!
As for VOTA... masterpiece!
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Shot by Darwin's Magic Bullet
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eddietrooper
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 19:39 |
I must be the only one who fully understand your point. YES, I've always thought that Hackett's playing on Genesis albums and early solo albums is somehow weird. Here are some annoying features of his playing:
- No vibrato at the end of the notes (with some exceptions of course) making the sound lifeless sometimes.
- Few string bendings. He played electric guitar like a classical guitar, pusing the notes individually.
- His sound sometimes reminds me of a synth, very mechanical.
Despite of these thoughts I don't dislike Hackett, he was really talented and inspired, but I'm sure that most of his early solos would sound much better nowadays. Just listen to his latests albums: his playing is now much more fluid and dinamic and his sound is much better, and he still keeps unmistakable, with a very personal style.
As for "The Knife" I have not heard his version.
Edited by eddietrooper - April 17 2007 at 19:41
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soundspectrum
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 20:31 |
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not so much weird as it is unique
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Chus
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Joined: October 16 2006
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Posted: April 17 2007 at 21:06 |
eddietrooper wrote:
I must be the only one who fully understand your point. YES, I've always thought that Hackett's playing on Genesis albums and early solo albums is somehow weird. Here are some annoying features of his playing:
- No vibrato at the end of the notes (with some exceptions of course) making the sound lifeless sometimes.
- Few string bendings. He played electric guitar like a classical guitar, pusing the notes individually.
- His sound sometimes reminds me of a synth, very mechanical.
Despite of these thoughts I don't dislike Hackett, he was really talented and inspired, but I'm sure that most of his early solos would sound much better nowadays. Just listen to his latests albums: his playing is now much more fluid and dinamic and his sound is much better, and he still keeps unmistakable, with a very personal style.
As for "The Knife" I have not heard his version.
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I think that was the purpose in Genesis; vibrato-less notes. You might notice Anthony Phillips also had limited use of it, with some exceptions. Anthony Phillips solo on The Knife wins for me, Hackett's solo was a bit lacking, specially the hammer-ons and the obligato solo there sounded like written on a rush IMO.
TheLamb: If you refer to that "swung effect" of the staccati in Dancing With The Moonlit Knight I think it works perfectly, in that song at least (I thought the guitar timing was delayed a bit in comparison to the accompaniment)
Edited by Chus - April 17 2007 at 21:07
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Is Steve Hackett's guitar work... Weird?
