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Posted: March 26 2007 at 08:21 |
The french 70s prog scene is poo......rly served by some of its' most vocal proponents here at PA. At times, it seems like a torrent or choices is offered to the neophyte, when a communally agreed "pantheon" would be better as a starting point. My most obvious examples would be the UK & Italian scenes, where 5 to 10 groups usually constitute the so-called "giants" of their scene, each representing a certain prog subgenre (folk, symph, art, RIO, symph etc...) Now mind you, one thing with the french scene is its' variety. No subgenre really had ever dominated, & apart from what some call "french theathrical rock", the french, while leaders in certain genres, are not usually referred to as inventors or originators. The exception - the singular Magma, which is an exotic & acquired taste. OK, now I'm sitting down to expect the apocolypse of artistic disagreement that I usually incite when making these overly broad generalisations. At least, I'm not denigrating french demi-gods such a Da Gall. But thankfully , I have an Ange looking over me.
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eugene
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Posted: March 26 2007 at 08:53 |
I am not sure if I understand exactly what you mean, but why wouldn't you yourself serve it a bit better?
If you don't mind me asking - what is "communally agreed "pantheon" ??? and why it should be better as a starting point ???
I personally like what I know from 70's French scene, and keep exploring it and finding hidden treasures all the time with the help of this particular site.
Do you have any suggestion/recommendations apart from Ange, which I know and love already, or what is the purpose of your post?.
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carefulwiththataxe
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Posted: March 26 2007 at 13:49 |
eugene wrote:
I am not sure if I understand exactly what you mean, but why wouldn't you yourself serve it a bit better?
If you don't mind me asking - what is "communally agreed "pantheon" ??? and why it should be better as a starting point ???
I personally like what I know from 70's French scene, and keep exploring it and finding hidden treasures all the time with the help of this particular site.
Do you have any suggestion/recommendations apart from Ange, which I know and love already, or what is the purpose of your post?. |
I think what I mean to say is that for a neophyte, the proverbial beginner looking to get his/her feet wet, that it is easier to start with more commonly accepted "leaders" or "stars" (I don't mean celebrities, just generally better known acts) in a scene. Most reviews, if they make comparisons, don't tend to compare one group to a more obscure band. For example in the RPI ( which I think means Rock Progressivo Italiano), you may see names like PFM, Le Orme, Banco often along with ELP as reference points. So from there, you may get into Loccando, Maxophone or Alphataurus. These may not be slavish imitators, heck ,they may be way off base comparison wise, but once you have some knowledge of some groups, you can start to explore lesser known groups who may share similarities with those you have started out with. & as you go along, you may stray into more eclectic or experimental genres, as your "connaissance" of comparisons increases. So if you come upon Area, & you see their name mentioned in other reviews, you likely stand a better chance of enjoying the new discovery, if you progress with a certain knowledge of musical kinship among the two artists (if you will). My point is not to say that we slavishly adore or stick to the "big" names, but a "newbie" may find it easier to understand a reference to, say Pink Floyd or King Crimson, than to Farthog Smellingsby (not an actual group), if only for the fact that they are more likely to have heard these groups before. And so, odds are better that they will "get" into that new group than if they simply go by reviews that fawn over the critic's favourite group, without being able to describe the music. WHich you can't do. An MP3 sample will give that info. Words are relatively ineffective. Comparisons, while limited, at least give you a hint, again starting point in helping determine what new treasure you want to explore.
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Posted: March 26 2007 at 15:14 |
a chance for someone to show off their knowledge... what can anyone tell me about the group Alice... I guess I can look it up. I'd rather see who knows what, if you know what I mean.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
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Points: 4202
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Posted: March 26 2007 at 18:08 |
I've got Alice Arretez Le Monde.From '72
Ėts pleasant, pastoral and not very complex. Prog for the whole family. Think Celeste, Cressida, Camel, PFM's debut and Harmonium. A solid album. Lots of flute.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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eugene
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Joined: May 30 2005
Location: Ukraine
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Points: 2703
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Posted: March 27 2007 at 04:46 |
pantacruelgruel wrote:
eugene wrote:
I am not sure if I understand exactly what you mean, but why wouldn't you yourself serve it a bit better?
If you don't mind me asking - what is "communally agreed "pantheon" ??? and why it should be better as a starting point ???
I personally like what I know from 70's French scene, and keep exploring it and finding hidden treasures all the time with the help of this particular site.
Do you have any suggestion/recommendations apart from Ange, which I know and love already, or what is the purpose of your post?. |
I think what I mean to say is that for a neophyte, the proverbial beginner looking to get his/her feet wet, that it is easier to start with more commonly accepted "leaders" or "stars" (I don't mean celebrities, just generally better known acts) in a scene. Most reviews, if they make comparisons, don't tend to compare one group to a more obscure band. For example in the RPI ( which I think means Rock Progressivo Italiano), you may see names like PFM, Le Orme, Banco often along with ELP as reference points. So from there, you may get into Loccando, Maxophone or Alphataurus. These may not be slavish imitators, heck ,they may be way off base comparison wise, but once you have some knowledge of some groups, you can start to explore lesser known groups who may share similarities with those you have started out with. & as you go along, you may stray into more eclectic or experimental genres, as your "connaissance" of comparisons increases. So if you come upon Area, & you see their name mentioned in other reviews, you likely stand a better chance of enjoying the new discovery, if you progress with a certain knowledge of musical kinship among the two artists (if you will). My point is not to say that we slavishly adore or stick to the "big" names, but a "newbie" may find it easier to understand a reference to, say Pink Floyd or King Crimson, than to Farthog Smellingsby (not an actual group), if only for the fact that they are more likely to have heard these groups before. And so, odds are better that they will "get" into that new group than if they simply go by reviews that fawn over the critic's favourite group, without being able to describe the music. WHich you can't do. An MP3 sample will give that info. Words are relatively ineffective. Comparisons, while limited, at least give you a hint, again starting point in helping determine what new treasure you want to explore.
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All you are saying here is is perfectly understandable and agreeable with. However it does not explain why "The french 70s prog scene is poo......rly served by some of its' most vocal proponents here at PA" (?).
If you feel that French 70's scene is missing some group of "commonly accepted as being great" bands, you are free to make it up yourself, and it will be as right (or wrong) as any other Big 3, 5, or 7. People tend to make superficial competitions in every field, even in such a subjective and hardly measurable field as Art - they always need (for some resons) to establish for themselves a "champion" or a leading group.
Mind you, making a reference to someone "Big" can sometimes serve your purpose very wrongly. As an example - friend of mine was completely ignoring After Crying because of endless references to ELP (the band he hates) till I gave him a CD-R with "De Profundis" without any information about who it is on it. That's where my friend's great admiration of AC started all of a sudden.
As to the guide for the beginners (oh by the way I know what "neophyte" means) - I know there are plenty of them and I think none is necessary, because with these guides a beginner is heavily imposed to someone's opinion prior to music. In my opinion the best for a beginner would be "try-and-fail" method - at least that's what I do all the time - trying and failing . Seriously the best guide for me is general opinion of
a person, whose musical preferences are more or less known to me, but getting knowledge of someone else's musical tastes, although it happens naturally and hardly noticeably as time goes by, also can be time consuming and would not safeguarde you from mistakes. But it is good to make mistakes as long as you can learn from them.
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carefulwiththataxe
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