Veganism... |
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Raff
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:51 | |
I eat a very varied diet, which includes meat and fish in sensible quantities. Being from a country where fruit and vegetables can be found easily and more cheaply than elsewhere, I eat a lot of them, and enjoy them quite a lot too - now I've got a pan of broccoli with garlic, chili pepper and white wine cooking away on the stove, and they sure smell good!
However, at one time in my life I considered the idea of becoming a vegetarian, though to be perfectly honest veganism has never, ever appealed to me. I know a girl who's a vegan and hates the very sight of meat, but she doesn't have any preaching attitude to those who are. On the other hand, my best friend's boyfriend, who had been a vegan for years, went back to eat meat and fish because of her influence (ah, the power of love... I'd better not tell you its effects on me!). He never was the preaching kind either - though in the past I've met a couple of 'normal' vegetarians who had the most unbearable holier-than-thou attitude, which eventually turned me off the whole thing altogether. |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:56 | |
What's your bloodgroup?
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 09:02 | |
...everything you need to know is
there |
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 14 2006 Status: Offline Points: 6419 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 13:39 | |
I'm not a vegan and I can't really see any reason to refuse eating any
food produced by animals, but I have no problem with people being
vegans, why would I? It's up to them to decide what they want to eat
and what they don't want to eat. Besides, it means more tasty meat,
cheese etc. for me and others who enjoy eating such food.
I didn't vote, as there is no "indifferent" option. Edited by Philéas - February 08 2007 at 13:40 |
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2006 Location: ibreathehelium Status: Offline Points: 15535 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 14:06 | |
What is really good is some smoked spare ribs. Amazing tasting especially if you get the sauce right and smoke it yourself.
My family is not vegetarian at all, but we do enjoy tons of salads and fruits. Edited by progismylife - February 08 2007 at 14:06 |
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:24 | |
Anyone who has a minimum knowledge of biology will easily realize that
human teeth are the teeth of an omnivore and not of a vegetarian. The
same is true for the digestive tract (if humans were vegetarians by
nature their digestive tract would have to be at least double as long
as it is). Also human beings lack an enzyme that is able to crack
cellulose. All these are clear signs that human beings are defintely
NOT vegetarians, so anyone who tries to sell me the idea of veganism
will be looked at sceptically by me. Why should it be healthy to
clearly live against ones nature? No book that I know of that tries to
sell the idea of vegetarianism or veganism cares about these obvious
biological facts, which for me automatically invalidates their content.
Nevertheless it is a fact that the quota of meat in the diet of many people is too high. As noted before, human beings are omnivores and not carnivores. Edited by BaldFriede - February 08 2007 at 20:30 |
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:24 | |
Strong words, I look forward to your response: In this society of religious, political and cultural intolerance, quantify "hate" in this context... I have friends who are vegetarian, friends who are vegan and friends who are omnivores (as opposed to various members here claiming to be carnivores... you wouldn't live long, friends); I personally am an omnivore who has no problem with anyone choosing not to eat whatsoever they please. Indeed - eat what you like: as long as that doesn't include bits of me... Although I long ago fell off the vegetarian wagon (I was under the lentil for about 10 years), I'd much rather be allied to your average vegetarian or vegan, than this chap: Edited by Jim Garten - February 08 2007 at 15:26 |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:32 | |
Oh, and by the way: It should also be noted that if all people were vegetarians we would have to cut down a LOT more forests than we alreday do, just to provide the necessary areas of cultivable land to feed all of humanity. A fact that Albert Einstein already pointed out when asked about his opinion about vegetarianism. Cutting down more forests, however, is definitely not what the world needs; the forests are, for example, the biggest reservoirs of sweet water we have. They also play an important role in the regulation of the climate. So it is not only from a personal point of view that I reject vegetarianism and veganism, but also from an ecological point of view.
Edited by BaldFriede - February 08 2007 at 15:33 |
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 23 2006 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 2537 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:39 | |
I remember reading somewhere that we cut down a lot of forests in order to make fields for cattle to graze.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:50 | |
That's true, but by far not as much as we would have to cut down if we were all vegetarians. The nutritional value of one acre of pasture land is about ten times as high as the nutritional value of one acre of farmland. |
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 23 2006 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 2537 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 16:42 | |
In this article it says two thirds of the world´s agricultural land is used for maintaining livestock.
I´m not a vegetarian, but this does make me think about it.
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Neil
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 04 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1497 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 16:55 | |
Sensible advice I feel. At the end of the day it's a matter of personal choice and I choose to live an omnivorous life. I quite like some vegetarian meals but also like the option of eating meat. I would not at all enjoy having to eat a vegan diet.
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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10266 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 17:04 | |
Nothing of what I said is contradicted by this article. In fact the article carefully avoids to mention how much agricultural land would be needed if we all lived vegatarian. With some reason, because, as mentioned before, 10 times as much land would be needed. To mention that fact was of course not in the interest of the writer of this article. Edited by BaldFriede - February 08 2007 at 20:29 |
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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Garion81
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2004 Location: So Cal, USA Status: Offline Points: 4338 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 17:07 | |
You make some excellent points! First of all we are ever expanding land for both crops and cattle. One problem that raising cattle has is the methane gas that is targeted by scientists who believe that is responsible for global warming (I am not hear to say they are right or wrong however any gas released into our atmosphere in such quantities cannot be good) While plants give off oxygen. I am not saying this is a reason to become a vegetarian it is just a problem. The biggest problem with this is the overproduction of beef into fast food hamburgers, tacos, and such. If we all just ate one or two less meals like these a week it would start to make a difference.
You are also very correct that man is an omnivore and requires multi sources of food types. To balance it out I choose to limit red meat either cattle or pork products to like once a week. I generally eat poultry which doesn't require the same kind of land to breed and mix a healthy dose of veggies and fruit and limit my bread servings to just 4 times a week. This way I save both cattle lands and grain lands.
It is balance we need to achieve. No one way extreme or the other is going to make us live longer or happier. I do not criticize anyone who's choice they have made for whatever reason they make it but i don't like getting preached at either.
And yes I do enjoy a nice steak grilled to perfection about once a month.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
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WaywardSon
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 23 2006 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 2537 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 18:09 | |
Good post Garion81
Grilled steak is OK I guess, as long as it doesn´t come from the sacred Bison! Edited by WaywardSon - February 08 2007 at 18:09 |
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Figglesnout
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 26 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1455 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 19:38 | |
wow...today she handed out stickers adn PETA booklets, and denyed every charge against PETA, stating they didn't happen, just people for some odd reason had somethign against PETA and only PETA. She's an idiot. She didn't even make me mad today--I quit listening to her.
I do not like the fact that she claimed to mention freedom for the individual however, and then blatantly stated that she would raise her children in a fascist way--never allowing them to eat meat under her roof. I almost argued with her, but realised how fruitless it would've been, and went back to developing pictures of cats and whatnot. BladFreide had some very good points on vegetarianism/veganism...I'd have to say that both are out of the question for me. Meat is good, and I could never convert to a cause that becomes so close minded. Many I've met treat veganism like an organized religion--much like christianity. They feel their opinion is sarced and correct and hand out pamplets recruiting unsuspecting people...it's stupid and it sucks. For a group that is trying to support individuality and freedom, they sure are a little bunch of neo-nazis (generally, as mentioned before a few of my friends are vegetarian and one of them vegan...they're fine, but they do get defensive over the subject...I just never ask about it--at least they don't go around preaching). |
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I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 29 2005 Location: hell Status: Offline Points: 28427 |
Posted: February 08 2007 at 19:56 | |
Just print out a million pages of that pic I posted and hand them out
Completely off-topic: did you like Cluster? |
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 24 2006 Location: Elkhorn, WI Status: Offline Points: 7910 |
Posted: February 09 2007 at 17:46 | |
I remember being at an outdoor concert one time and saw a guy wearing a shirt that said PETA on the front. I rolled my eyes, but as he got closer I noticed it said something underneath: People Eating Tasty Animals.
E |
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A² Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
Posted: February 10 2007 at 00:14 | |
True, we were not designed on the genetic level to be strictly vegetarian. We were also not designed to cars to drive. Since we do, people get less exercise (but that's a whole other issue). We also weren't designed to live as long as we do, but modern medicine has changed that. The point is that we don't live by the basest design for our survival. We don't have to go out and hunt our meals. We have options now. The fact is we have a choice. If I was in a situation where my survival depended on eating animals, that would be the only choice. But, I have other options when I go to the grocery store. We have come to a point as a species, where we can afford the luxury of considering the welfare of the creatures we share this world with. |
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magnus
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 19 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 865 |
Posted: February 12 2007 at 14:08 | |
I support veganism. In fact, I'd like to use this opportunity to thank them for leaving more meat to us omni-/carnivores
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The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes
Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie |
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