Veganism...
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34109
Printed Date: February 08 2025 at 17:09
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Topic: Veganism...
Posted By: Figglesnout
Subject: Veganism...
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 18:20
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So...I got in a row with a stupid outspoken vegan today in school. One of my best friends is vegan and I view the subject as I view anything else--I'm not offended by it at all, I don't partake in it, but I don't it against people that do--my same thoughts on homosexuality, etc. It doesn't matter to me. You're still a person, and your beliefs are of course far different from mine.
First of all, this vegan was an exception--and not the only one. There are SEVERAL vegans in my school, who are loud, openly make "dumb blonde" comments, can't argue their position(s) worth crap and are, bluntly, annoying. Why is it that with this particular subject (and only with females in my experiences) the "members" are particuarly fiesty and particuarly dumb in my school and area? They wear veganism like a social badge--like a fashion trend and it is very annoying to me. Yes, veganism is a choice--but it's also your OPINION (i don't think they've ever heard the word...) on a matter. Your Opinion is not always mine, no matter how badly you try to rub it off onto me. Like I said, I have nothing against vegans at all--just these particular four women (i'm not sexist! ...this is purely coincidence)... Anyone here a vegan or have stories to share about it/similar experiences...or does anyone have any explanation for these women's actions which diminish the word "vegan" and what it should stand for? ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Replies:
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 18:31
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vegans are a great pain in all normal people's asses, screw them. They might be good people but they need to shut the hell up and stop all the time and loose their holier-than-thou attitude. Why are many of them stupid or appear stupid? Because they fail to realize the obvious fact that there are food chains throughout the earth's ecology and the fact that people are more intelligent than wild animals(though I often doubt it) doesn't mean they should be left out. http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/233/untitledpr9.jpg - http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/233/untitledpr9.jpg  So I'm a carnivore and planning to remain one till I die and someone eats me(why waste meat?). admin edit: bad boy!! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 18:47
 ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
The Miracle wrote:Posted By: Witchwoodhermit
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 19:07
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Save a carrot, eat a cow.
You're absolutely correct in saying it's an OPINION. People are free to do and eat as they please. Make your point fine, but knock off the holier than now attitudes.
The end result is, we consume, and that will never change. (Unless we learn to live on air alone). Our food will always be massed produced, to one effect or another.
Vegans complain about killing living things. What do they think happens when a carrot is pulled from the soil, or an apple from the tree?
We must eat to live. We must kill to eat. Pretty black and white, to me. ------------- Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan ringed by ants and musing over man. |
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 19:10
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I could easily be a vegetarian if I wanted, but I'd eat cheese eggs and fish still. I hardly eat red meat as it is so it wouldn't be hard to give up completely. Veganism is going wasy too far though, but more power to those who can. ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 19:22
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Meat,meat,meat all the way!!!!!!! I am a shameless carnivore. I could never understand vegans,but to each his own.-------------  |
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 19:47
That's pretty much how I feel. The poll needs an "indifferent" option; Veganism is neither a positive force nor a negative one, simply a dietary decision made by a person. -------------   |
Posted By: Bern
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 20:15
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I could never let go the amazing feeling of blood spilling down your teeth.
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RIP in bossa nova heaven. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 20:58
What is a vegan? Not the same as vegetarian?   ------------- 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 20:58
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No problem with them, don't really care if they want to, and I love animals
but they taste so good.
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Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 20:59
A vegan doesn't eat anything animal related, no meat, poultry, fish, eggs, cheese and anything else that has anything to do with animals. ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:01
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Posted By: The Wizard
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:05
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I have a couple of vegan friends, one is for religous reason and the other is doing it just to see what it's like. -------------  
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Posted By: VanderGraafKommandöh
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:12
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My parent's and my brother are vegetarians (my parent's still eat fish, however), but I am a carnivore myself. I understand the reasons behind vegetarianism, but I've come across many vegetarians who do seem a bit holier-than-thou. Ansen is right, the food chain is an important thing, although over-hunting (for non-eating purposes) is stupid. I don't agree with Fox hunting, Badger baiting or Ivory hunting. -------------   
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:14
Oh, oh.... then... those b*****ds...
 I don't agree with that. I'm the foremost animal-right defender ever, (and I have said things in regard to that here) but when it comes to the eating thing... man, I don't eat rare animals or those "gourmet" dishes made of non-traditional creatures.... (starting with lambs  )... I could kill somebody that eats a dog.... (I have to kill 1600 millions so I'm screwed.... what a life-sentence I will get).... But in regards to fish, chicken, meat and maybe turkey.... please! All animals eat other animals! (except those who don't, their descriptive term one I don't know in english but in spanish is "herbivoro" or something like that) .... as long as they are killed swiftly and pain-less... bring me a filet mignon. -------------
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Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:15
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I eat meat. I think veganism is stupid. True, too much meat eating is bad for the animals, but not eating meat simply defies our nature. We're omnivores, we eat both. If eating meat is wrong, we might as well condemn all other carnivores in the animal kingdom. -------------
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:17
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one cannot be metal and be a vegan, you need the total carnage and bloodbath of your prey as you mangle it to bits and DESTROY ALL LIFE *blast beat* SEVER THE FACE OFF AND STRANGLE IT WITH ITS INTESTINES GREOOOAAARGH!!  ------------- 
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Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:20
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I personally don't really like the taste of meat, but I like poultry too much to be a vegetarian, let alone a vegan. It is a commitment and I totally respect those who choose to keep it -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:33
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for me plantlife is just as valuable as animal or even human life. edit: shut up hannibal ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 21:37
cookies are animals. -------------
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Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 22:23
| I eat meat. I personally disagree with veganism and vegetarianism, I think meat is important for a healthy diet. But if it's for a religious reason, I respect that. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 23:19
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Some essential reading about vegeterianism/veganism: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor - http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill - http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi#PETA - http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi#PETA  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: February 06 2007 at 23:21
awwwww   ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 00:02
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Not to offend anyone but I’ve been brought up by to main cultures, both of which completely support the consumption of animal products. The concept of being a vegan just seems absurd to me. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 00:06
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Veganism is not absurd at all, but I wouldn't change a juicy steak for a bunch of vegetables, give me meat. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Norbert
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 14:24
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If I am offered some meat dishwith good intention I don't refuse it, because I don't want to offend the given person but if I have a wider variety to choose I avoid them. Buddha and his followers had a similar practice they only refused meat when the animal was slaughtered for them. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 14:48
| One of my good friends (an old colleague) is a vegan. Unlike the girls described by the thread originator, he never made any issue of it at all, never criticized the rest of us non-vegans, or anything like that. The only thing you ever noticed was that when he was at lunch with the group, he didn't eat any meat. His good attitude helped when picking a lunch place as we would be sure to go somewhere that could accomodate his dietary needs. Someone who's a vegan and a jerk about it would just never get invited to lunch. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 14:59
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I relate an interesting story i heard some years ago regarding the vegan diet - an obscure Amazon tribe were found to be living exclusively on vegetation and cereals, but appeared perfectly healthy and fit in every way. Scientists could not figure out how they managed this, as vitamin B1 found in meat is an essential part of everyone's diet, but the mystery was solved when they found their grain store was inhabited by mice, and traces of B1 were found in mouse droppings mixed up in the grain
 this story proves no-one can lead a totally vegan diet without some form of supplements found in meat!
-------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 15:03
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I am not a vegetarian (or vegan) and I can never be, because of the foods I've eaten. Cow brain tacos anyone? Cow tongue sandwich? Or how about some good ole curdled pig's blood soup? I enjoy eating meat and don't get disgusted about what I am eating. I do eat salads a lot and enjoy fruit but meat is my main food source. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 15:24
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In my first work, the owner was a vert rich member of the Jewish community, his favorite food was pig cheeks.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 16:21
So religious people don't need to eat healthy? |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 16:43
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Wow...today the vegan girls tried to tell me that milk is bad for you in every way because it includes pus. "Pus is nasty" they say "and therefore milk is bad"
Somehow now it includes no viatmins or minerals. They've all managed to disappear. Oh, but there IS some pus. Ew...pus. Milk is bad because there's pus in it. Nasty pus. And no viatmins. What f**king idiots. I swear. Also I forgot to mention--one of my very best friends is vegan...at first she was very quiet about it, but lately she's been getting rather vocal about it, and saying a few vegan catch phrases including "Everyone in the world should be vegan" "I feel so much better and smarter as a vegan." Very pretentious and "holier-than-thou" comments and it's disturbing me. Pissing me off actually. Oh, and by the way, after checking up on the little vegan bitch at school I found that milk--as proven time and time again is actually good for you. Who woulda thunk it? ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 16:48
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It's fun pissing them off in return... like printing out that picture in my first post, putting "real men eat meat" under it and handing out copies at school... another time I brought a pack of beef jerky and ate it all lunch in front of a vegan kid
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 16:52
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I used to eat a lot of meat, but not any more. I am not vegan, as I still eat dairy. Some day I may go totally vegan.
I stopped eating meat as my compassion for other living beings grew. First It was just land animals, then I gave up seafood. As much as I would like more people to do the same, I never criticize. There are some misconceptions. You don't need meat for a healthy diet. I have never been healthier in my life. Eating plants is not the same as killing an animal. First of all, they have no brains. Second, they are harvested at their ripeness. In other words, just before they die. If a cow wasn't slaughtered, it would live past 30 years. Remember this is not preaching, just clearing up a couple of facts. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: blaughida
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 17:40
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I'm a vegetarian, and a weird one (I voted "vegetarian with no interest in becoming vegan"). I don't eat meat because I absolutely hate it. It grosses me out, the smell, texture, and taste more than the fact that it came from a living animal, so as soon as my parents stopped making me eat it, around the age of eleven, I became vegetarian. I have no interest in becoming a vegan because I enjoy dairy products. There is no or very little moral component in my vegetarianism, but I do respect people who do it for this reason (on a side note, I often don't like their food, because I didn't "give up" meat and have no interest in fake burgers; I just want the salad). The vegans I know I didn't know were vegan until it came up in conversation, but then they are not in high school. I do remember going to "Vegetarian Club" in high school, which was supposed to be a place to share recipes, and instead feeling like I shouldn't be there because I was one of the few people who drank milk and milk was evil...this club did not last very long. As with anything, there is a line between trying to nicely convince people of something you passionately believe in (which includes leaving them alone if they're clearly not interested) and being obnoxious. |
Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 19:28
yes actually, the article about milk was by some guy at harvard, so i found about four articles that said milk was good for you--one of them by a dude at harvard, printed them out and gave them to her. She got very angry. (I got the articles during class--it was in photography, we have access to computers the entire class). ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: February 07 2007 at 21:52
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I hate veganism and vegetarianism.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:08
Another word for it is vegetalian.
this kind of dumb behaviour usually has for effect that they auto-eliminate from the face of the earth. As humans vegetilianism is not viable for more than a few years, before encountering health complications.
Non-adapting life form become extinct. Survival of the fittest. May sound extreme, but not quite as extremes as vegans.
I eat meat, but can go a few days without it, though.
Pus , however!!!   Uuuh!!!! Milk products, I mean....  ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:16
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In the words of comedian Ron White, "I did not climb to the top of the food chain to eat carrots!"
I love marinating a nice t-bone overnight with a nice spice rub and getting those lovely cross hatched grill marks just right. It's prettier than a Monet! E ------------- 
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Posted By: Wilcey
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:16
How can it be more respectful for a religion than for a moral reason?
 My Mother-in-law is a vegan, I happily cook for her and enjoy doing so, the rest of us all eat meat in the family now, but both my kids were about 5 or so before we fed them meat.
Ma-in-law is VERY healthy, she is fit, and mentally VERY alert!!! and she is almost 80 and had 30 odd years of veganism behind her.
She is sensible and thoughtful about what she eats.........
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:51
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I eat a very varied diet, which includes meat and fish in sensible quantities. Being from a country where fruit and vegetables can be found easily and more cheaply than elsewhere, I eat a lot of them, and enjoy them quite a lot too - now I've got a pan of broccoli with garlic, chili pepper and white wine cooking away on the stove, and they sure smell good! However, at one time in my life I considered the idea of becoming a vegetarian, though to be perfectly honest veganism has never, ever appealed to me. I know a girl who's a vegan and hates the very sight of meat, but she doesn't have any preaching attitude to those who are. On the other hand, my best friend's boyfriend, who had been a vegan for years, went back to eat meat and fish because of her influence (ah, the power of love... I'd better not tell you its effects on me! ). He never was the preaching kind either - though in the past I've met a couple of 'normal' vegetarians who had the most unbearable holier-than-thou attitude, which eventually turned me off the whole thing altogether.
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Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 08:56
| What's your bloodgroup? |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 09:02
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...everything you need to know is
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30519 - there |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 13:39
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I'm not a vegan and I can't really see any reason to refuse eating any
food produced by animals, but I have no problem with people being
vegans, why would I? It's up to them to decide what they want to eat
and what they don't want to eat. Besides, it means more tasty meat,
cheese etc. for me and others who enjoy eating such food. I didn't vote, as there is no "indifferent" option. |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 14:06
What is really good is some smoked spare ribs. Amazing tasting especially if you get the sauce right and smoke it yourself. My family is not vegetarian at all, but we do enjoy tons of salads and fruits. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:24
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Anyone who has a minimum knowledge of biology will easily realize that
human teeth are the teeth of an omnivore and not of a vegetarian. The
same is true for the digestive tract (if humans were vegetarians by
nature their digestive tract would have to be at least double as long
as it is). Also human beings lack an enzyme that is able to crack
cellulose. All these are clear signs that human beings are defintely
NOT vegetarians, so anyone who tries to sell me the idea of veganism
will be looked at sceptically by me. Why should it be healthy to
clearly live against ones nature? No book that I know of that tries to
sell the idea of vegetarianism or veganism cares about these obvious
biological facts, which for me automatically invalidates their content. Nevertheless it is a fact that the quota of meat in the diet of many people is too high. As noted before, human beings are omnivores and not carnivores. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:24
Strong words, I look forward to your response: In this society of religious, political and cultural intolerance, quantify "hate" in this context... 
I have friends who are vegetarian, friends who are vegan and friends who are omnivores (as opposed to various members here claiming to be carnivores... you wouldn't live long, friends); I personally am an omnivore who has no problem with anyone choosing not to eat whatsoever they please. Indeed - eat what you like: as long as that doesn't include bits of me... 
Although I long ago fell off the vegetarian wagon (I was under the lentil for about 10 years), I'd much rather be allied to your average vegetarian or vegan, than this chap:  ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:32
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Oh, and by the way: It should also be noted that if all people were vegetarians we would have to cut down a LOT more forests than we alreday do, just to provide the necessary areas of cultivable land to feed all of humanity. A fact that Albert Einstein already pointed out when asked about his opinion about vegetarianism. Cutting down more forests, however, is definitely not what the world needs; the forests are, for example, the biggest reservoirs of sweet water we have. They also play an important role in the regulation of the climate. So it is not only from a personal point of view that I reject vegetarianism and veganism, but also from an ecological point of view.
------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:39
| I remember reading somewhere that we cut down a lot of forests in order to make fields for cattle to graze. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 15:50
That's true, but by far not as much as we would have to cut down if we were all vegetarians. The nutritional value of one acre of pasture land is about ten times as high as the nutritional value of one acre of farmland. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 16:42
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In this article it says two thirds of the world´s agricultural land is used for maintaining livestock.
http://www.ivu.org/oxveg/Talks/animalfarmenv.html - http://www.ivu.org/oxveg/Talks/animalfarmenv.html
I´m not a vegetarian, but this does make me think about it.
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Posted By: Neil
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 16:55
Sensible advice I feel. At the end of the day it's a matter of personal choice and I choose to live an omnivorous life. I quite like some vegetarian meals but also like the option of eating meat. I would not at all enjoy having to eat a vegan diet. ------------- When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory. |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 17:04
Nothing of what I said is contradicted by this article. In fact the article carefully avoids to mention how much agricultural land would be needed if we all lived vegatarian. With some reason, because, as mentioned before, 10 times as much land would be needed. To mention that fact was of course not in the interest of the writer of this article. ------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 17:07
You make some excellent points! First of all we are ever expanding land for both crops and cattle. One problem that raising cattle has is the methane gas that is targeted by scientists who believe that is responsible for global warming (I am not hear to say they are right or wrong however any gas released into our atmosphere in such quantities cannot be good) While plants give off oxygen. I am not saying this is a reason to become a vegetarian it is just a problem. The biggest problem with this is the overproduction of beef into fast food hamburgers, tacos, and such. If we all just ate one or two less meals like these a week it would start to make a difference.
You are also very correct that man is an omnivore and requires multi sources of food types. To balance it out I choose to limit red meat either cattle or pork products to like once a week. I generally eat poultry which doesn't require the same kind of land to breed and mix a healthy dose of veggies and fruit and limit my bread servings to just 4 times a week. This way I save both cattle lands and grain lands.
It is balance we need to achieve. No one way extreme or the other is going to make us live longer or happier. I do not criticize anyone who's choice they have made for whatever reason they make it but i don't like getting preached at either.
And yes I do enjoy a nice steak grilled to perfection about once a month.  ------------- 
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?" |
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 18:09
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Good post Garion81
Grilled steak is OK I guess, as long as it doesn´t come from the sacred Bison!
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Posted By: Figglesnout
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 19:38
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wow...today she handed out stickers adn PETA booklets, and denyed every charge against PETA, stating they didn't happen, just people for some odd reason had somethign against PETA and only PETA. She's an idiot. She didn't even make me mad today--I quit listening to her.
I do not like the fact that she claimed to mention freedom for the individual however, and then blatantly stated that she would raise her children in a fascist way--never allowing them to eat meat under her roof. I almost argued with her, but realised how fruitless it would've been, and went back to developing pictures of cats and whatnot. BladFreide had some very good points on vegetarianism/veganism...I'd have to say that both are out of the question for me. Meat is good, and I could never convert to a cause that becomes so close minded. Many I've met treat veganism like an organized religion--much like christianity. They feel their opinion is sarced and correct and hand out pamplets recruiting unsuspecting people...it's stupid and it sucks. For a group that is trying to support individuality and freedom, they sure are a little bunch of neo-nazis (generally, as mentioned before a few of my friends are vegetarian and one of them vegan...they're fine, but they do get defensive over the subject...I just never ask about it--at least they don't go around preaching). ------------- I'm a reasonable man, get off my case |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: February 08 2007 at 19:56
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Just print out a million pages of that pic I posted and hand them out Completely off-topic: did you like Cluster?  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: E-Dub
Date Posted: February 09 2007 at 17:46
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I remember being at an outdoor concert one time and saw a guy wearing a shirt that said PETA on the front. I rolled my eyes, but as he got closer I noticed it said something underneath: People Eating Tasty Animals.
E -------------
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: February 10 2007 at 00:14
True, we were not designed on the genetic level to be strictly vegetarian. We were also not designed to cars to drive. Since we do, people get less exercise (but that's a whole other issue). We also weren't designed to live as long as we do, but modern medicine has changed that. The point is that we don't live by the basest design for our survival. We don't have to go out and hunt our meals. We have options now. The fact is we have a choice. If I was in a situation where my survival depended on eating animals, that would be the only choice. But, I have other options when I go to the grocery store. We have come to a point as a species, where we can afford the luxury of considering the welfare of the creatures we share this world with. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: February 12 2007 at 14:08
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I support veganism. In fact, I'd like to use this opportunity to thank them for leaving more meat to us omni-/carnivores
------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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