Coheed And Cambria: The real reasons !!! - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

Asyte2c00

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 15 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2099

Posted: January 28 2007 at 17:47

Awful Band. My friend who listens to Zappa, Nirvana, and Joy Division extensively . Threw Up on his discman when her C&C

Dreadful Music. Uninspired and Largely Contrived. Sta Away

Modern Prog: Check Out PRR, IZZ, Deluge Grander, Dredg

Tony R

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979

Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:08

Asyte2c00 wrote:

Awful Band. My friend who listens to Zappa, Nirvana, and Joy Division extensively . Threw Up on his discman when her C&C

Dreadful Music. Uninspired and Largely Contrived. Sta Away

Modern Prog: Check Out PRR, IZZ, Deluge Grander, Dredg

Inclusion should not be based on personal taste.

"Uninspired" is very subjective and hardly the basis for non-inclusion.

Anyone got an intelligent, mature opinion?

moreitsythanyou View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 11682

Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:23

ProgStage wrote:

I have suggested the band be listed as well, and I was pretty shocked to find that people don't seem to want them listed. They are one of the core bands that got me to backtrack the whole genre and it's subgenres.

Anybody who says they aren't a Progressive Rock Band - Listen to "Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV : Volume One : From Fear Through The Eyes Of Madness".

If you listen to it the whole way through, you couldn't deny that the elements were there. I already consider the album to be a modern classic.

Reasons off the top of my head why they should be on this site:

The Science Fiction over-the-top but complex storyline (which run through all of their albums, the "saga" has already been set out, with a IV Pt. 2 and a prequel planned), the fully orchestrated intro of their latest album (Keeping The Blade), the complex time signatures in places (Apollo I + II), freak-out guitar solos obviously inspired by early Prog bands (Willing Well I - IV), and their epic songs which span all the way through their discography.

If I was to personally list them, it would be under Progressive Metal (although they have their soft and poppy songs, the essential part of them is their aggresive tracks which are extremely predominant in their latest album), at the very least Prog Related.

I'm a frequent user of this site and I am a big fan of Progressive music from the 70s all the way to the modern bands, and I say that Coheed & Cambria deserve their place on the site.

If bands like Radiohead and Muse are listed under Prog-related, then Coheed, at the least, should be too. I hope for them to be listed and for this to happen especially when their new album is released this year... It should act as further proof that the band should be credited on this site.

It's really not much to ask, I'd love to see it happen, I really would. I think it's unjust that they're not on this site, as many bands who don't nearly have as much the key element of progressive rock as Coheed do are listed on the site. I'm going to do all I can to help those who already agree with me on this.

I agree with some of what you have to say. Coheed should be on the site, but not as prog metal, prog related or art rock seem to be the only 2 reasonable choices. They definately make it apparent that they are strongly influenced by prog. As far as most convincing album for conclusion goes, it would have to be In Keeping Secrets... The story makes more sense and the music is more experimental and well exectuted.

<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]

Tony R

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979

Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:33

Certainly the Prog Metal Team have already vetoed them...

chamberry

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Status: Offline
Points: 9008

Posted: January 29 2007 at 21:39

I'd say prog related. In my opinion they aren't full on prog, but they do have enough prog elements for them to be here.

BaldFriede View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261

Posted: January 29 2007 at 21:47

I went to their homepage and listened to the examples there. If those examples are in any way representative for them, then they are not prog. I liked some of the videos, but wasn't impressed by the music.

BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.

moreitsythanyou View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: April 23 2006
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 11682

Posted: January 29 2007 at 21:49

BaldFriede wrote:

I went to their homepage and listened to the examples there. If those examples are in any way representative for them, then they are not prog. I liked some of the videos, but wasn't impressed by the music.

It was probably songs like "The Suffering" or "Devil in Jersey City" or "A Favor House Atlantic"

Those are the obvious singles off of the album; the band has more to offer.

<font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR]

Raff

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429

Posted: January 30 2007 at 01:32

moreitsythanyou wrote:

Just for the record: Prog-Related and Art Rock are NOT synonymous. PR means exactly what its name says (that is, connected or influenced by prog), while AR is fully, 100% prog - even if in the past the category may have been used as a dump for semi-prog bands (as we of the team have discovered to our everlasting distress). Please just have a look at Ivan's excellent definition if you want confirmation of that.

As to C&C, I think they will be probably added at some point, though to Prog-Related - once they get the green light by the Admin team.

Atavachron View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65266

Posted: January 30 2007 at 01:39

Of all the choices, C&C seem most suited to Prog Related.

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784

Posted: January 30 2007 at 12:47

I actually think In Keeping Secrets is their most progressive album and at the least should be here under prog-related. They take most of their sound directly from Rush and Pink Floyd and fill in the rest with their emo/mainstream influences

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784

Posted: January 30 2007 at 12:49

Asyte2c00 wrote:

Awful Band. My friend who listens to Zappa, Nirvana, and Joy Division extensively . Threw Up on his discman when her C&C

Dreadful Music. Uninspired and Largely Contrived. Sta Away

Modern Prog: Check Out PRR, IZZ, Deluge Grander, Dredg

The same way I feel about Flower Kings and Spock's Beard, but theyre still here. Those two qualitites have little to do with prog, for better or for worse, as long as theyre imitating the right thing.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

enteredwinter View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 05 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 501

Posted: January 30 2007 at 21:46

I think Coheed should be included either as Art Rock or Prog-Related. Personally I'd opt for Art Rock, but either would suit them I suppose.

Here's my list of reasons why they should be considered prog or at least prog-related. I know that some of this repeats what has already been said in this thread, but I wanted to put everything in my words. Sorry for the repetition of some ideas:

1) Their albums are concept albums, not only in and of themselves, but also linked between each other.
2) Their songs often exceed the standard radio length of ~3-5 minutes. Several songs are 7+ minutes, and if you count the last four tracks on Good Apollo as one epic, that epic clocks in at ~30 minutes.
3) Their songs are often not written in the standard verse/chorus/verse format, and sometimes show interesting use of time signatures.
4) Their sound is very comparable to Rush, which is considered a full-fledged prog band. They even have a song called 2113, not that that means much, but it helps to show that the Rush influence is there.

I'd say they are a fairly obvious inclusion based on those reasons, but clearly it's far from obvious considering the endless debate without actually seeing them get on the site.

Edited by enteredwinter - January 30 2007 at 21:48

salmacis

Forum Senior Member

Content Addition

Joined: April 10 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3928

Posted: January 31 2007 at 05:40

^That's a pretty good summary of why they could be included in prog related. The thing with them for me though is that they have all the elements in place but the emo influence dominates it too much, for my taste at least. I think if they toned that down the prog would probably come out a bit more.

I thought this band had been added and withdrawn not long after...was that before the prog related category??

Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784

Posted: January 31 2007 at 09:55

Also, if you listen to their guitar solos they're very Gilmour influenced. Live, the guitarist (not Sanchez, Travis Stever) sings his guitar solos just as Gilmour did. If you listen to the Final Cut, Part four of The Willing Well, you will hear this. As well as notice that the entire song is essentially a photocopy of a Pink Floyd song.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Ed_The_Dead View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4928

Posted: January 31 2007 at 10:24

Coheed and Cambria are black on white progressive rock... I fail to understand why people aren't able to see that

Are those emo/teen popularity cliché's blinding you that much?

the art rock category is an ideal place for them.

Guitar God View Drop Down

Forum Newbie

Joined: December 24 2006
Location: Russian Federation
Status: Offline
Points: 36

Posted: February 22 2007 at 16:25

Hell, yaeh, it is quite unfair...

Why DP and Uriah Heep deserve places on ProgArchives but Co&Ca doesn't? Hell, I love Co&Ca, I think thay are prog. Why not to add them on PA???

P.S. To my mind, Co&Ca is the same MODERN-PROG as Dredg, Oceansize, Pure Reason Revolution and others.

Edited by Guitar God - February 22 2007 at 16:26

FruMp

Prog Reviewer

Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 322

Posted: March 23 2007 at 07:12

Well to be honest I'm going to generalise here and say that the majority of the prog community and the people on this site dislike modern whiny bands, myself included.

That said I'm a fair and rational guy and I even though I loathe the band in fairness I don't believe they properly exemplify the prog genre.

Edited by FruMp - March 23 2007 at 07:16

toolis

Forum Senior Member

Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678

Posted: March 23 2007 at 07:37

i find many similarities to Mars Volta and apart from that, i, too, think they fit in Art Rock...

anyway...

-music is like pornography...

sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...

-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...

micky

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833

Posted: March 23 2007 at 11:17

toolis wrote:

i find many similarities to Mars Volta and apart from that, i, too, think they fit in Art Rock...

anyway...

send it through the proper channels, with all the info (bio, samples and the such) and we'll take a looksie at them.

The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Shwang_Shwinga View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: March 22 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 102

Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:55

I'm with you guys all the way, Co&Ca ought to be Prog Metal or Art Rock, at LEAST prog-related. I had just started a similar thread, but some admin shut it down (put me in my place) and sent me a link to this one. Come to think of it, most of the admins (or at least the one's I have seen thusfar) aren't very welcoming to new members

Anyway, if you really doubt their prog status, I'm definitely sending in that application to yous guys.
Thanks for hearing us out.