Coheed And Cambria: The real reasons !!!
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32035
Printed Date: November 29 2024 at 22:47
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Topic: Coheed And Cambria: The real reasons !!!
Posted By: Black Mog
Subject: Coheed And Cambria: The real reasons !!!
Date Posted: December 09 2006 at 22:50
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Im listening to Good apollo burning star vol.4 by coheed and cambria for another time. Since today i never try to understand why some people refuse to recognize them as progressive rock. But this time, i want to know. Listen to a song like The willing well I - Fuel for the feeding end and explain me why this band( who categorized themselves as progressive-rock ) are not still here. And i know its not the first time a post like that is made.. btw, i know im not the only one who think like that. So please, explain me why !Ohhh and why on last.fm, coheed are taged in big bold black PROGRESSIVE ROCK(Its listeners who tag bands)
sorry for my bad english....
Viva coheed !
And those who listen them during 5sec and said: Its emo f**king punk. YOU really miss something :P ------------- 2 Rights make 1 Wrong 
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Replies:
Posted By: Black Mog
Date Posted: December 09 2006 at 22:52
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oh yeah.. and dont think the song i listed is the only one with progressive elements.. its only because its my favourite song by them !!! ------------- 2 Rights make 1 Wrong
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Posted By: YYZed
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 00:49
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Last FM users tagging a band as prog doesn't make it prog. Neither does having prog influences. C&C isn't prog. ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 00:57
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Actually Wikipedia classifies them as progressive rock (not that wiki is necessarily any great authority). I had 'In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth' and though I didn't keep it, it's a melodic, well-recorded blend of indie rock, metal and heavy prog.
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Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 00:59
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Co&Ca are prog. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection. Commissions considered. |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 01:00
| There's no way you can say that their most recent album isn't prog. I don't necessarily find it to be very good, but it's about as prog as you can get. |
Posted By: Black Mog
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 02:00
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WOW YYZed... such a great example of good arguments... LOL
I suppose you didnt like dredg, mars volta, tool... the new prog stuff affraid you..
Your favorite band seems to be RUSH... i love rush so much.. and you know coheed is often compared to rush... LOL
Good luck with your evolution in prog music :P ------------- 2 Rights make 1 Wrong
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Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 02:19
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^^ you won the argument, no sense in bashing the guy in ------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums |
Posted By: NotSoKoolAid
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 03:32
| Are we done ranting about our favorite band that should be added yet? |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 04:56
| I don't see them as being a prog act- prog related at the very best. The only prog act that seem to have had any influence on them is Rush, but even then it's mostly emo with those horrible whiny vocals that I detest. The only thing I can see that would really make them prog would be the fact they have done concept albums- that's it, really. And I've heard two of their albums and wasn't a huge fan of either, really. |
Posted By: Frasse
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 05:34
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If people consider them Prog they should be added, regardless of how progressive they really are.
I have never heard C&C but every article I read about them state them as Prog, last.fm and wikipedia are already mentioned.
If PA doesn't see them as truly progressive they are still worthy of a place as prog-related.
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 07:52
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Moved to "Suggest new bands / artists" Forum.
Please note that if a band arent included in the Archive and you want to discuss them you must start the thread in the Non-Prog Music Forum. If you want to suggest someone for inclusion then use the http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=1 - Suggest new bands / artists Forum Thanks. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 07:56
Black Mog, your argument is that good either. Rush were compared to Led Zep and Led Zep weren't a Prog Band... ...however they have been included here as Prog-Related and I think that Coheed & Cambria have established those credentials at least. |
Black Mog wrote:Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 11:41
| Coheed & Cambria are not really Prog, although they have Prog moments. They would fit well in Prog Related. |
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: December 10 2006 at 15:34
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when they were on tour they came through my town and the newspaper had an article entitled "Progressing beyond Prog" about the progressive rock band Coheed and Cambria beginning to take new influences and not being as progressive. ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: December 12 2006 at 22:36
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When I first came to this site I thought to myself "Where is Coheed?" but now that I have a better sense of the genre, I think they still belong here, but I'm leaning (49%-51%) towards prog related -------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: December 13 2006 at 00:03
Yeah I would lean towards prog related as well. No one should get too upset that way either. ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: Xeroth
Date Posted: December 13 2006 at 20:18
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I really, really, really, don't care for Coheed at all. But I
will not deny the fact that they have prog elements, their apollo album
with the freakishly long name is prog elemented all throughout
it. I hang on related, but really nothing more.
------------- I once was cool, but now I'm cold. Can you please turn up the heat. |
Posted By: ProgStage
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 17:34
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I have suggested the band be listed as well, and I was pretty shocked to find that people don't seem to want them listed. They are one of the core bands that got me to backtrack the whole genre and it's subgenres.
Anybody who says they aren't a Progressive Rock Band - Listen to "Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV : Volume One : From Fear Through The Eyes Of Madness". If you listen to it the whole way through, you couldn't deny that the elements were there. I already consider the album to be a modern classic.
Reasons off the top of my head why they should be on this site:
The Science Fiction over-the-top but complex storyline (which run through all of their albums, the "saga" has already been set out, with a IV Pt. 2 and a prequel planned), the fully orchestrated intro of their latest album (Keeping The Blade), the complex time signatures in places (Apollo I + II), freak-out guitar solos obviously inspired by early Prog bands (Willing Well I - IV), and their epic songs which span all the way through their discography.
If I was to personally list them, it would be under Progressive Metal (although they have their soft and poppy songs, the essential part of them is their aggresive tracks which are extremely predominant in their latest album), at the very least Prog Related.
I'm a frequent user of this site and I am a big fan of Progressive music from the 70s all the way to the modern bands, and I say that Coheed & Cambria deserve their place on the site.
If bands like Radiohead and Muse are listed under Prog-related, then Coheed, at the least, should be too. I hope for them to be listed and for this to happen especially when their new album is released this year... It should act as further proof that the band should be credited on this site. It's really not much to ask, I'd love to see it happen, I really would. I think it's unjust that they're not on this site, as many bands who don't nearly have as much the key element of progressive rock as Coheed do are listed on the site. I'm going to do all I can to help those who already agree with me on this.
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 17:44
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Just dont start a flame war when the naysayers chip in, eh? |
Posted By: Asyte2c00
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 17:47
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Awful Band. My friend who listens to Zappa, Nirvana, and Joy Division extensively . Threw Up on his discman when her C&C
Dreadful Music. Uninspired and Largely Contrived. Sta Away
Modern Prog: Check Out PRR, IZZ, Deluge Grander, Dredg
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:08
 Inclusion should not be based on personal taste.
"Uninspired" is very subjective and hardly the basis for non-inclusion.
Anyone got an intelligent, mature opinion?
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Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:23
I agree with some of what you have to say. Coheed should be on the site, but not as prog metal, prog related or art rock seem to be the only 2 reasonable choices. They definately make it apparent that they are strongly influenced by prog. As far as most convincing album for conclusion goes, it would have to be In Keeping Secrets... The story makes more sense and the music is more experimental and well exectuted. ------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: January 28 2007 at 18:33
| Certainly the Prog Metal Team have already vetoed them... |
Posted By: chamberry
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 21:39
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I'd say prog related. In my opinion they aren't full on prog, but they do have enough prog elements for them to be here. ------------- 
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 21:47
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I went to their homepage and listened to the examples there. If those examples are in any way representative for them, then they are not prog. I liked some of the videos, but wasn't impressed by the music.
-------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: January 29 2007 at 21:49
It was probably songs like "The Suffering" or "Devil in Jersey City" or "A Favor House Atlantic"
Those are the obvious singles off of the album; the band has more to offer. ------------- <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 30 2007 at 01:32
Just for the record: Prog-Related and Art Rock are NOT synonymous. PR means exactly what its name says (that is, connected or influenced by prog), while AR is fully, 100% prog - even if in the past the category may have been used as a dump for semi-prog bands (as we of the team have discovered to our everlasting distress). Please just have a look at Ivan's excellent definition if you want confirmation of that. As to C&C, I think they will be probably added at some point, though to Prog-Related - once they get the green light by the Admin team. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 30 2007 at 01:39
| Of all the choices, C&C seem most suited to Prog Related. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 30 2007 at 12:47
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I actually think In Keeping Secrets is their most progressive album and
at the least should be here under prog-related. They take most of their
sound directly from Rush and Pink Floyd and fill in the rest with their
emo/mainstream influences ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 30 2007 at 12:49
The same way I feel about Flower Kings and Spock's Beard, but theyre still here. Those two qualitites have little to do with prog, for better or for worse, as long as theyre imitating the right thing. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: enteredwinter
Date Posted: January 30 2007 at 21:46
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I think Coheed should be included either as Art Rock or Prog-Related. Personally I'd opt for Art Rock, but either would suit them I suppose. Here's my list of reasons why they should be considered prog or at least prog-related. I know that some of this repeats what has already been said in this thread, but I wanted to put everything in my words. Sorry for the repetition of some ideas: 1) Their albums are concept albums, not only in and of themselves, but also linked between each other. 2) Their songs often exceed the standard radio length of ~3-5 minutes. Several songs are 7+ minutes, and if you count the last four tracks on Good Apollo as one epic, that epic clocks in at ~30 minutes. 3) Their songs are often not written in the standard verse/chorus/verse format, and sometimes show interesting use of time signatures. 4) Their sound is very comparable to Rush, which is considered a full-fledged prog band. They even have a song called 2113, not that that means much, but it helps to show that the Rush influence is there. I'd say they are a fairly obvious inclusion based on those reasons, but clearly it's far from obvious considering the endless debate without actually seeing them get on the site. ------------- 
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: January 31 2007 at 05:40
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^That's a pretty good summary of why they could be included in prog related. The thing with them for me though is that they have all the elements in place but the emo influence dominates it too much, for my taste at least. I think if they toned that down the prog would probably come out a bit more.
I thought this band had been added and withdrawn not long after...was that before the prog related category??
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: January 31 2007 at 09:55
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Also, if you listen to their guitar solos they're very Gilmour
influenced. Live, the guitarist (not Sanchez, Travis Stever) sings his
guitar solos just as Gilmour did. If you listen to the Final Cut, Part
four of The Willing Well, you will hear this. As well as notice that
the entire song is essentially a photocopy of a Pink Floyd song.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: January 31 2007 at 10:24
Coheed and Cambria are black on white progressive rock... I fail to understand why people aren't able to see that
Are those emo/teen popularity cliché's blinding you that much?
the art rock category is an ideal place for them. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: Guitar God
Date Posted: February 22 2007 at 16:25
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Hell, yaeh, it is quite unfair...
Why DP and Uriah Heep deserve places on ProgArchives but Co&Ca doesn't? Hell, I love Co&Ca, I think thay are prog. Why not to add them on PA??? P.S. To my mind, Co&Ca is the same MODERN-PROG as Dredg, Oceansize, Pure Reason Revolution and others. ------------- In Prog We Trust |
Posted By: FruMp
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 07:12
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Well to be honest I'm going to generalise here and say that the majority of the prog community and the people on this site dislike modern whiny bands, myself included. That said I'm a fair and rational guy and I even though I loathe the band in fairness I don't believe they properly exemplify the prog genre. ------------- 
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Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 07:37
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i find many similarities to Mars Volta and apart from that, i, too, think they fit in Art Rock... anyway... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 11:17
send it through the proper channels, with all the info (bio, samples and the such) and we'll take a looksie at them. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 14:55
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I'm with you guys all the way, Co&Ca ought to be Prog Metal or Art Rock, at LEAST prog-related. I had just started a similar thread, but some admin shut it down (put me in my place) and sent me a link to this one. Come to think of it, most of the admins (or at least the one's I have seen thusfar) aren't very welcoming to new members Anyway, if you really doubt their prog status, I'm definitely sending in that application to yous guys. Thanks for hearing us out. ------------- 
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Posted By: Trickster F.
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:06
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I still haven't heard them. ------------- sig |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: March 23 2007 at 15:29
Perhaps you could clarify the statement in bold by PM to me Shwang. Which admins have you dealt with so far, and how did you find them "unwelcoming"? It is important that I understand why you felt compelled to make such a statement.
The site works best when there is one thread on a particular topic, rather than fragmented discussions. Closing a thread and asking you to use another one is not a slight on anyone, just a practical solution.
On the subject of C&C, they don't really fit in with the definition of Prog related (which as I've said many times is not a fall back category). That's not to say they should not be considered for other prog categories.
I look forward to hearing from you by PM Schwang.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 01:34
read your post... and ask yourself why you were put in your place. If you want your views taken seriously.. don't act like a troll or some punk. Make your point and avoid saying things like you did about groups like the Doors like you did, you'll find yourself quite welcome here if you do. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 16:44
Better do it. I heard "The Second Stage Turbine Blade" and already put it into "Prog" folder on my PC 
Gonna check two more albums soon. |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 16:48
| I don't think they are prog at all. And I dislike the band and forced myself to listen to the whole album without turning it off in disgust. I did not hear any prog elements even though I have heard that they have been compared to Rush, but, as an avid Rush fan, I cannot hear any similarities. They are not prog, imo. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 17:24
| ^If you dislike the band before listening for Prog similarities you are biased, I'm afraid. |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: March 24 2007 at 19:46
Sorry I kind of goofed that up. I heard it was like Rush so I listened for some prog and stuff and found myself not liking it and finding it to have no progressive rock elements. I wasn't biased. I discovered I didn't like it and discovered no prog elements at the same time. |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: March 25 2007 at 09:01
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What album did you listen to? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: March 25 2007 at 09:05
i would if i really was into them.. i only own one album and heard some songs from other releases of theirs but that's it.. maybe, in the future... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: progismylife
Date Posted: March 25 2007 at 09:36
Don't remember the name since I deleted it off my computer but it had a track entitled 21:13 |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: March 25 2007 at 11:25
Well, it was not IV for sure. Probalby III. Get IV and then you might have some fun. Its 100% prog. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5">
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: March 25 2007 at 17:50
That's a very insulting comment aimed at a fine bunch of people who do a lot of good (unpaid) work for this forum. It sounds to me like your thread was just closed because there was already one on the same subject. |
Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: March 25 2007 at 18:51
| 21:13 is the bonus track on In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3, which is definitely a prog song. |
Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: March 25 2007 at 20:13
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Yeah, guys, excellent! I'm glad to see a lot of support. I'm trying to work out an enormous e-mail to the request line on this site that'll most definitely get Co&Ca into the ProgArchives. By the way, I fully retract my previous statements about the admins. I had a skewed perspective on things and I really apologize for all of that. I hope we can just start over? -------------
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: March 26 2007 at 03:58
| Cheers SS, much appreciated. |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: March 26 2007 at 10:04
No problem,SS.
I always respect anyone who is enough of an adult to make a sincere apology. -------------  |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: March 26 2007 at 10:14
Just listened to "In keeping secrets..." . If it's not Prog, I'm gonna sell my soul to Justin Timberlake!!! 
Seriously - very good and diverse |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: March 26 2007 at 11:19
| Inspired by "In keeping secrets", turned "Good Apollo..." on. This one is even better! Very good! Imagine Mars Volta mixed with Metallica and Oceansize!!! |
Posted By: jmcdaniel_ee
Date Posted: May 01 2007 at 12:51
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Time for a newb's $0.02. If I may be so bold to generalize, I suspect most people object to C&C's inclusion because their music sounds like emo/punk. Well, if that's your litmus test, then I could sing Louie Louie in a British accent, with a mellotron, flute, and hammond organ and it would become instant prog. Someone unfamiliar with Jethro Tull could listen to the first 10 minutes of Thick as a Brick or Songs from the Wood and call it folk, because it does sound like folk. C&C's music has multiple parts, story-lines, and themes that re-occur in different songs on the album. Just because it sounds like emo punk doesn't mean it can't still be progressive.
Also, if you object to them, please make sure you're not basing your opinions off of songs from MTV or the Radio. This would be the equivalent of being against including ELP because you only heard From the Beginning or Still You Turn Me On.
Listen to the first 3 songs on Good Apollo IV: The first is a classical string piece, that by the way, appears in various forms at the beginning of each album. The second song is a folksy acoustic song that seems strange and enigmatic, especially because it end's with the phrase "I'm still waiting here, to kill all of you." By the end of the second song, you still have no idea what genre the music is generally. The 3rd song (Welcome Home) starts in and you hear a powerful, driving theme, establishing the general mood of the rest of the album. In each album you have theatric vocal roles, story-lines, re-occuring themes, longer songs with multiple parts, key changes, etc. It may sound like emo, but if those aren't elements of progressive rock, I don't know what are.
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Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: May 01 2007 at 17:54
Well if death metal could, so could emo and even punk... who knows, the Thirsty Selenits can get here perhaps in JR/F  ------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: jmcdaniel_ee
Date Posted: May 18 2007 at 12:36
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From PA's recent interview w/Steven Wilson:
>However, I see over the
> last 5 years there's a new kind of breed of bands that have really
> changed the way people think about the term progressive. It's now used > frequently in the media in a genuinely positive sense. With The Mars > Volta, Tool, Opeth, The Flaming Lips, Sigur Ros, Isis, Mastodon, > Radiohead, Muse, Coheed and Cambria, suddenly the definition is much > broader than it was. Mr. Wilson hath spoken...
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Posted By: Ghandi 2
Date Posted: May 19 2007 at 12:56
He also mentioned Muse, who are prog related, and The Flaming Lips, who aren't here at all. And what does he know, Deadwing isn't even prog. ;-)
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: May 21 2007 at 13:55
At last! Someone agrees with me! Sorry for going off topic. |
Posted By: billbuckner
Date Posted: May 22 2007 at 11:47
Yeah, Steven Wilson knows NOTHING about prog! I mean, screw him, right?
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Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: May 24 2007 at 14:26
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Who cares what Steve Wilson says about Coheed & Cambria!!! He isn't a mod here, he doesn't have a say in a damn thing you do around here, and if he does, then you're a sheep! Point is, Coheed and Cambria are at least Prog-Related, and if you can't see that, your perception of true progressive music and feeling is skewed and distorted, to no fault of Steve Wilson.... ...and Deadwing was prog. -------------
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Posted By: rockguitar1015
Date Posted: June 04 2007 at 12:08
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OK, I hear alot of people giving thier opinions on the qualities of the band. None of this has to do with being PROGRESSIVE. Let's not forget that Prog still stands for Progressive. They are doing something different. Very different. That's all it takes. They are pushing their genre(which is modern rock). Therefore, they are Prog Rock. It makes no difference if a band has technical musicianship, long names, concept albums, tributes to King Crimson, songs that sound kinda like Sgt Peppers, 70's guitar tone, and a moog solo. Being Prog is about pushing ideas, and being creative beyond your genre. Coheed is most certainly NOT a one trick horse. What they do takes people(myself included) by surprise. Prog for sure. ------------- Good and Bad do not relate to sound. There is no bad sound. Therefore, no bad notes. Therefore no bad passages. Therefore no bad songs. Therefore no bad artists. Therefore NO BAD MUSIC. |
Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 02:51
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Someone give this dude an award, he just said everything. Rockguitar1015, you are the man. -------------
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Posted By: Matteo
Date Posted: June 07 2007 at 03:11
 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/CTaxt/ - www.last.fm/user/CTaxt/ |
Posted By: jmcdaniel_ee
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 13:54
Looks like all of us recent supporters of C&C's inclusion are relatively new members--the cards are stacked against us. (Maybe in reality, we're all just members of the band trying to get included on the website  .)
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 13:59
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IMO Coheed & Cambria are quite obviously Prog-Related. No conspiracy, no prog-snobbiness involved. It's simply a matter of prority. The priority for this site always has been and always should be the inclusion of Prog Bands. There is a mountain of Prog Bands waiting to be added. Coheed&Cambria aren't a Prog Rock band, therefore they aren't a priority for the site.  |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 14:48
I'm with you Tony. They have not yet crossed the true Prog Rock threshold but they linger on the edge. At a minimum they should be here under Prog-Related.
------------- 
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Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 17:02
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Ah, perhaps you boys have yet to hear all their albums, hmm? I've purchased their entire discography, and I am quite pleased. Even their first work, "The Second Stage Turbine Blade" has some very "proggy" parts and pieces to it, though their most progressively inclined works are the other two albums, "In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3" and "Good Apollo, my title is too long Vol. 1: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness." Perhaps not every song of theirs is 12 minutes long (although counting the Velorium Camper songs off of Keeping Secrets, there's about 3 mini-epics on that album.) Perhaps they are on Fuse or MTV2 on occasion. And sure, they'll be playing with "contemporaries" at the wretched enemy of prog (or thought), Warped Tour. But the heart of the music is more than surely progressive. Deadsoul Tribe is a group on this site who have no songs longer than 7 minutes, though they are undoubtedly prog. So are Muse and Mastodon (except Mastodon has only had progressive compositions since "Leviathan," and they do have one 13 minute song that doesn't contain a hidden track). Even Dredg belong here. Co&Ca may not be a KC or Yes ripoff, but does that make them not prog? Of course not! Nor does it shun these other groups, who are quite favored in this site's use atmosphere. Just because a band has some mainstream attention and radio playability doesn't mean they can't be progressive in nature. Just because more than a dozen people know who Coheed are doesn't mean its teenage trash. You really need to open your mind on this one. They're a lot more than you think. And on the note of priorities, how long does it take to determine if a band is prog and give them a port site here? I mean, from this perspective at least, there's a team of people listening to the suggestions and determining whether or not they deserve a spot in the archives. A team. I figured since Co&Ca have been debated for a LONG time, a final "yes" or "no" answer could've been given, or at least hope for a future response. I wasn't aware of the "mountain" of suggestions piled amongst the bright and shining admin team working tentatively to add bands to our Archives, so perhaps I'm just a rambling fool. But I thought that at this point we'd have some clue as to, at least what genre they'd be placed under. Not to worry, however, I have reviewed and rewritten my e-mail to the band suggestion folks, and its fairly well constructed. All that's left is to upload the 5 songs LEGALLY onto MediaFire so they can be listened to [idea kudos to Goldenspiral  ] and I will have a valid message to be sent to the Heads. On that note, does anyone have any suggestions for songs I should upload that would prove Co&Ca to be progressive enough for the site? I have so many ideas of what to send, but I need a little outside help narrowing it down....thanks! -SS -------------
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 17:07
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my opinion of whether they should be on here will be heavily affected by their next release. Second Stage Turbine Blade- regular modern rock with a prog tendency here and there In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3- prog album- no qualms about adding them if this was their only release Good Apollo IV: somewhat split- the first few tracks, the Apollo tracks, and the Willing Well tracks are on par with IKSOSE3 ...however, the middle tracks are not only straight up rock, they're also quite generic and borderline annoying for me  so for the next album, here's to hoping they go back towards their IKSOSE3 tendencies ------------- 
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 17:10
The Light and the Glass- IKSOSE3 The Crowing- IKSOSE3 title track- IKSOSE3 Willing Well tracks 1-3 (the fourth one while sounding typical in prog sound doesn't progress all that much to me) that's all I can think of for now -------------
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Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 18:25
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Hmm...well, Josh [man, it's strange calling you that, Heyitsthatguy, cause that's my name as well], it seems that you have a liking towards IKSoSE3...haha, that definitely goes without saying. I see the point you're trying to establish with Good Apollo, as songs like "The Suffering" and "Wake Up" are pseudo-pop in certain ears, but when fitted with the entire story of The Amory Wars [not to mention the layering techniques used in almost every Coheed song, they're amazing really], they take on a new meaning. Oh well, thats just IMHO, to each their own... I like your suggestions very much, though we should include at least one song from SSTB, as it would seem as if we're trying to "trick" the mods by only giving them songs from 2/3 of Coheed's work, anything from Second Stage you'd care to see make it through, perhaps Delirium Trigger or Neverender? -------------
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 18:30
I was trying to think of one from Second Stage but got a bit lazy maybe Everything Evil? and I liked IV, I just didn't like tracks like "The Lying Lies..." and "Once Upon Your Dead Body"....to be honest SS is probably my least favorite, never really got into it though I do like Delirium Trigger. I'm probably committing some sort of prog blasphemy by even helping with this but hey I guess they're a guilty pleasure for me also, if you like these guys, try the band 3, they sound like a mix between C&C and Tool at parts, and are also somewhat prog influenced....maybe not enough for prog-related but that's a whole issue on its own and posing addition isn't exactly pressing right now -------------
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 19:04
This "mod" is familiar with ALL Coheed& Cambria's catalogue. I subscribe to Napster and I also own 2 of their albums...I got my daughter into them.  This is a serious music site and we perform our dutiies accordingly.You think we just read the music press and guess?  |
Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 19:07
I wasn't sure how in detail they had been discussed, after reading the rest of the thread I don't really have much to add it seems -------------
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Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 19:47
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Tony, it'll take more than a screenshot to convince me that Coheed shouldn't be in the Archives. Why do you think they are not progressive musicians? -------------
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: June 18 2007 at 19:54
Read the previous pages, I think he explains himself....Prog-related suits them fine for now, for me at least -------------
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 19 2007 at 12:16
The screenshot was because you seemed to suggest we were making arbitary decisions based on misconceptions or negative preconceptions....I was just demonstrating that you were wrong to suggest that. You are convinced C&C are a Prog band. Fine. Enjoy them whatever they are. |
Posted By: jmcdaniel_ee
Date Posted: June 21 2007 at 09:07
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I would definitely second "the Crowing." It's one of my favorite of theirs. Also, the title track from "IKSoSE." I think the first 3 tracks in order from IV are a great testiment to their progressive diversity, although you couldn't really include them all. If you think about it, Pink Floyd's The Wall is really just an album composed of regular music that is progressive only due to it's breadth of moods, theatrics, and storyline--something that is impossible to miss with C&C.
I actually think this is bigger than Coheed and Cambria itself. I think there is more at play than simply analyzing elements of music. I really agree that PT's Deadwing is less progressive than either of C&C's latter albums. The main difference seems to be that PT is cool, more obscure, and has no other (embarassing-to-some) genre to easliy attach itself to. C&C can be superficially categorized by a style/genre which seems to be ire of some (EMO or whatever).
While I realize this is sometimes a grey area, I think at least a generic set of standards could be developed as a case against bands. If not, I find it largely unfair that the Wall, Deadwing, latter Genesis, a lot of latter day Rush, and countless other offerings that have strayed from any strict sense of progressive rock are included here. The street should run both ways--if we're going to be stringent, then let's be stringent.
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Posted By: Heptade
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 10:26
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Whoah....just found this thread...you mean they're not here? That's kind of silly, isn't it? I mean, Mars Volta? Tool? Those bands might be LESS proggy than C&C! ------------- The world keeps spinning, people keep sinning And all the rest is just bullsh*t -Steve Kilbey |
Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 13:56
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Heptade, please tell me that was sarcasm...Tool & TMV are progger than many bands on here. Coheed are undoubtably prog, but I wouldn't say to the extent they are. Though I'm glad to hear someone else is surprised that Co&Ca aren't present here
-SS -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 20:07
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Well, I've finally heard some music from this band. I have IN KEEPING SECRETS OF PLANET EARTH... I don't know if the rest of their output is like this or proggier, but from this album only, I have to agree with the voices that ask for their exclusion, or better, that oppose their inclusion. They have prog elements here and there for sure, but most 80% of the album is just regular rock, at times very good and at times bordering in annoying (there are moments when it sounds like teenager-MTV-rock)... the moments of progressivenes are few and far between, and the playing is just average, so virtuosism is not the argument to use for their inclusion. In terms of structures, most of the songs are completely normal; in terms of instrumentation, they use the regular line-up, and only from time to time they add keyboards... The singer is a clone from the one in The Mars Volta but without the power and the music without the progressiveness. there are good moments and the music in general isn't bad, but IS NOT PROG. Not every good thing in the world is prog, after all. But please tell me if IV or any other release is proggier than this album, maybe I'm wrong. ------------- 
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 20:09
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It is definitely Prog-Related....no brainer...
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 20:10
Prog-related at THE VERY MOST..... -------------
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 20:18
 They're as Prog-Related as that bunch of poseurs on your T Shirt, T |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 20:25
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With sun-glasses inside the house.... he must be Teo, the T. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 20:34
Not angry because of the sunglasses part but because of the attack on that magnificent shirt!!
  Anyway, even in this thread DT cannot be spared.... Guess it's normal... When you're at the zenith, everybody looks you with envy...
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Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: June 23 2007 at 23:35
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IV is proggier...but I'm sad you didn't enjoy the music like I did, T. You're right, they're not virtuosos. Spiral Architect are, but Co&Ca certainly are better.
I can deal with Prog Related, Coheed aren't really metal and they aren't pretentious enough to be art rock.
And that shirt is magnificent -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 24 2007 at 12:17
Oh I really agree on the part I highlighted. And I enjoyed the music, not as much as I would like mostly because of a couple of tracks that really reminded me of MTV, but the rest was good. -------------
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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: June 25 2007 at 09:14
 LMFAO!!!!!
OK....I'll compose myself now.....no wait!
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Posted By: jmcdaniel_ee
Date Posted: June 25 2007 at 11:15
I don't know...I saw them last year play "The Final Cut" and Cladio played an over-indulgent, way too long solo at the end, and even played guitar behind his back or over his head, or while shaving or something. I was pretty sick that they ended the show like that.
 My main point is their thematics, storyline, character perspectives, etc. I think that stuff's really cheesy in most circumstances, but sometimes that's mainly what separates some music into prog territory (i.e. The Wall).
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 25 2007 at 12:34
I hope it's not about the shirt...
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Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: June 25 2007 at 12:43
No, it's about somebody actually wearing it in public. Would you like me to get you my Warrant t-shirt out of storage for you.
 ("She's my cherry pie!")OK, just having a little fun.
I don't know why, but DT has become my favorite band to call cheese rock. Or maybe Cheese Prog. BTW, C&C could also be called that. Maybe it's time for a new genre. But then again, many popular Prog bands have have big time cheese moments. But some continue to have them.
Alright, I need to stop. I'm killing myself here.
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: July 30 2007 at 20:14
To be or not to be (prog) thats the question.. I have read about this band in music magazines and on the internet and everyone say they are ultra prog even the band them self.. then i try look em up here and this topic is what i found, i dont know what to belive now.  ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 30 2007 at 20:40
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I am a big fan of C & C, (much to my daughter's horror as she dislikes all things even remotely emo), and I can readily see the influence of Prog on their music, but unfortunately, not in their music - hence for me they are only Prog Related. Perhaps one day they will grasp the nettle, and that will be a very fine day indeed. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Shwang_Shwinga
Date Posted: July 30 2007 at 20:58
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From what I've heard, it's gonna be prog related...I just can't say when. But hey, I'm no authority here. The fact that they're being considered contents me enough, as long as it gets done I am pleased. -------------
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: July 31 2007 at 03:35
| Does anyone wish to do the work of adding them if they are approved? If so, I will take this to the Admin team for a final decision. |