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Philéas 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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 Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:18 |
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I agree with Tony. The site looks more tidy if all titles are written in the same way.
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kazansky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 24 2006
Location: Indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 5085
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:20 |
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err, but wouldn't that reduce the originality of the album itself ?
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The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
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Points: 3497
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:21 |
 Ghost Rider wrote:
Fassbinder wrote:
I want to bring my apologies for the mess caused by my posts and for the uncomfortable feelings of everybody who was hurted by them. |
What? Are you joking? I'm NOT hurt by anything... As a native speaker of Italian, I just wanted to set the record straight in order to help you do the best possible job. Just that!
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No, unfortunately, I'm not joking. I'm truly very glad that you aren't hurt by any of my posts/suggestions, but I feel I opened an unwanted theme. After all, the re-writing of the titles may take a good amount of (very precious) time. And, at last, who cares? Those who writes everithing with lower case letters, including their proper names? The pedants between us are able to see the right spelling through the forest of mistakes even without any corrections.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:28 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Tony R wrote:
With all due respect this is an English language site so surely presentation of titles etc should follow the English style...?  |
No, Tony, languages should follow their own rules even when quoted in a foreign language context. This is a basic rule of linguistics. Of course, when talking about languages not written in the Roman script, translitteration is essential to afford comprehension. This is not the case with European languages, though. |
Yes, I understand that but this is consistency of presentation we are discussing here, it just looks neater and more professional if they are all presented uniformly. Otherwise the site would have a piecemeal look to it.
Stati Di Immagionazione should be presented the same way as Made In Japan etc..
IMO of course.
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Raff
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Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
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Points: 24429
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:36 |
Tony, sorry to contradict you (I've been negatively influenced by someone you know.... hahahhaha  ), but there is nothing professional in altering the rules of a language. I know that from firsthand experience - I'm a translator among other things, and write essays in Italian in which I quote English book titles by using the rules of English - that is, upper case initials when it is necessary. However, if you think the site looks better with consistency of presentation, I won't start a war against it. I just wanted to offer my qualified advice as a language expert.
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Joolz
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 24 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 1377
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:37 |
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Fassbinder
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Joined: May 27 2006
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Points: 3497
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:41 |
The current conditions aren't too comfortable for work.
I suggest, first of all, to reach the consensus. How should a(n ideal?) title look like? The easiest solution (not necessarily the most logical one) is to write everything with the initial capital letter.
Anyway, only with clear rules in hands, there is a possibility to make a corrector's work.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:45 |
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How about making a poll of this thread? Rules vs. Consistent presentation?
Edited by Philéas - January 21 2007 at 09:45
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
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Points: 11979
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:49 |
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:49 |
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There it is a problem, nevertheless. It it is represented from the word "to be" that in the third singular person of the present indicative it becomes "è". In fact in the computer it is not existed like capital letter.
How do we have to allow us? For example we should write:
"Dopo... Niente è Più lo stesso" (a song by BMS)
or:
Dopo... Niente E' Più Lo Stesso"
Why in Italian it is not the same thing.
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Joolz
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Joined: March 24 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 1377
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:49 |
Philéas wrote:
How about making a poll of this thread? Rules vs. Consistent presentation?
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No, it's for the site owners and Admin to decide
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Joolz
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 24 2006
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:51 |
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
There it is a problem, nevertheless. It it is represented from the word "to be" that in the third singular person of the present indicative it becomes "è". In fact in the computer it is not existed like capital letter.
How do we have to allow us? For example we should write:
"Dopo... Niente è Più lo stesso" (a song by BMS)
or:
Dopo... Niente E' Più Lo Stesso"
Why in Italian it is not the same thing.
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erm ..... È .... what's the problem?
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Raff
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24429
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 09:59 |
Tony R wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Tony, sorry to contradict you (I've been negatively influenced by someone you know.... hahahhaha ), but there is nothing professional in altering the rules of a language. I know that from firsthand experience - I'm a translator among other things, and write essays in Italian in which I quote English book titles by using the rules of English - that is, upper case initials when it is necessary. However, if you think the site looks better with consistency of presentation, I won't start a war against it. I just wanted to offer my qualified advice as a language expert.
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although we wont mention the fact that I studied English, FRENCH and GERMAN Literature for my Honours Degree...
its not about the conventions of language, its about presentation format which is completely different.
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OK, Tony, I understand the point. Anyway, I didn't mean to offend you in any way... I didn't know anything about your studies, and I never wanted to imply that you didn't know anything about foreign languages (I am well aware that you're very fluent in French). I just saw this thread and jumped in as usual... never meant to start any kind of controversy.
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Fassbinder
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Joined: May 27 2006
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Points: 3497
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:03 |
Diacritics are the totally different issue.
Back to our sheep...
I think that it should be seen as "for the PA internal use only", regardless the actual linguistic reality.
Proposals:
1) Everything is written with the capitalised initial letter (unless the lower case is intended by an artist);
2) Main parts of speech are written with upper case initial letter, everything else is with lower case (except for the proper names, of course); once again, unless the lower case is intended).
An example of initial lower case intended by an artist -- pH7 by P.Hammill.
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:08 |
Joolz wrote:
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
There it is a problem, nevertheless. It it is represented from the word "to be" that in the third singular person of the present indicative it becomes "è". In fact in the computer it is not existed like capital letter.
How do we have to allow us? For example we should write:
"Dopo... Niente è Più lo stesso" (a song by BMS)
or:
Dopo... Niente E' Più Lo Stesso"
Why in Italian it is not the same thing.
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erm ..... È .... what's the problem?
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That I do not succeed to write it in capital letter and like believe me that there be also other persons in possession of keyboards that do not allow it. All here.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:14 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Tony R wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Tony, sorry to contradict you (I've been negatively influenced by someone you know.... hahahhaha), but there is nothing professional in altering the rules of a language. I know that from firsthand experience - I'm a translator among other things, and write essays in Italian in which I quote English book titles by using the rules of English - that is, upper case initials when it is necessary. However, if you think the site looks better with consistency of presentation, I won't start a war against it. I just wanted to offer my qualified advice as a language expert.
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although we wont mention the fact that I studied English, FRENCH and GERMAN Literature for my Honours Degree...
its not about the conventions of language, its about presentation format which is completely different.
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OK, Tony, I understand the point. Anyway, I didn't mean to offend you in any way... I didn't know anything about your studies, and I never wanted to imply that you didn't know anything about foreign languages (I am well aware that you're very fluent in French). I just saw this thread and jumped in as usual... never meant to start any kind of controversy. |
I was just teasing you....if I was upset I would have terminated you! 
And my French (and my English grammar judging by this sentence) is dreadful since I havent used it for 25 years.... 
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Joolz
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 24 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1377
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:25 |
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
Joolz wrote:
erm ..... È .... what's the problem?
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That I do not succeed to write it in capital letter and like believe me that there be also other persons in possession of keyboards that do not allow it. All here.
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It's not on the keyboard, it is in the Character Map [assuming you are on a Windows PC] - you find it in Accessories -> System Tools ----------------------------------------------------------- I'm off to bed now. Have we reached any decision here? Tony / Raff .....
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:31 |
Joolz wrote:
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
Joolz wrote:
erm ..... È .... what's the problem?
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That I do not succeed to write it in capital letter and like believe me that there be also other persons in possession of keyboards that do not allow it. All here.
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It's not on the keyboard, it is in the Character Map [assuming you are on a Windows PC] - you find it in Accessories -> System Tools
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'm off to bed now. Have we reached any decision here? Tony / Raff .....
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As for the diacritics -- if the Character Map isn't helpful, just open a Word document, enter the "Insert Symbol" section, find a diacriticised (??) letter, then copy/paste it into the post box in PA. That's what I do, always successfully. Some of these diacritics are mantained by a system, but some aren't, however...
As for the decision -- I've posted two proposals -- haven't seen any reaction for a while...
Edited by Fassbinder - January 21 2007 at 10:32
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:33 |
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I think album titles probably should be capitalized according the rules of their respective languages, otherwise we're setting a bad precedent and people will come away misinformed. That should be more important than being slightly easier on certain peoples' eyes.
I'm slowly dealing with my mislabelled mp3s because the cognitive dissonance became too much. No more "L'Isola di Niente" for me, I'll have to learn to handle the stark italian format. ;)
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497
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Posted: January 21 2007 at 10:35 |
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There is always a possibility to write the original title in parentheses... beside the "conventional" one...
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Upper/Lower case in titles
IMO you are both right .... I do believe the conventions [spelling
(accents etc) as well as grammar] of native languages should be
honoured, but it looks much better to be consistent .... doh