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Golden_void View Drop Down
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Points: 10 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2006 at 09:38
I think we'd all like to see a Gabriel-Genesis reunion, but can Collins keep his Ego in check for long enough just to play the drums? It seems unlikey. Unless the others have given him a lobotmy for free, allowing the great one to return and the nasty liitle man to remain behind his tubs! Hehe
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Points: 38 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2006 at 13:03

There are a lot of ignorant, yet predictable, posts in this thread... a lot of misled anger and hatred to Mr. Collins, who's become such a cliched target that I'm surprised many people here still resort to the same tired statements we've heard countless times.  I remain unimpressed.

First, Collins/Banks/Rutherford initially REQUESTED that Peter Gabriel and Steve Hackett join them for the tour... that was the original intent, and by all accounts they were ready to tour in that incantation but Gabriel pulled out at the last minute because of his schedule.  The band has said that further down the line (two years, or knowing Gabriel's schedule, Banks amusingly joked ten years, from now), there WILL be a Gabriel-Hackett reunion.
 
In fact, the original plan was to do The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway in its entirety... you may remember some rumors about the Musical Box not being able to play that because Genesis were going to perform it.  However, with Gabriel delaying the plan, that idea has been put on the backburner...  it still might happen, indeed from all accounts it WILL happen, but further along down the line.

So what do the three remaining band members do?  Well they want to tour, and so they're going to tour.  During the press release interview for the tour, they specifically said that they will include material from ALL eras of the band's history, and yes that includes some Gabriel-era stuff and most likely the instrumental stuff from Wind and Wuthering and A Trick of the Tail, which was explicitly referenced.

However, the band did say that there will be an emphasis on the material from the 3 man line-up, and why not?  If we're going to get a Gabriel tour in the future, they won't be playing and of those songs, so I see absolutely no problem with then focusing on the late-70s, 80s, 90s stuff (no Calling All Stations).
 
So instead of getting angry at Gabriel for pulling out, you fellas rely on that tired old cliche of "oh, it's pop Genesis, they're only doing it for the $$$."  First off, that concept goes right down the drain when you see what kind of a tour the band are engaged in... 20 dates in Europe and then 20 dates in the US.  This is not a full-blown tour, it is, as Collins himself put it, a "selection of dates."  If it was for money, they would play double the dates and multiple-night stints in the big arenas, but this is not happening.
 
I urge everyone to go to http://www.genesis-music.com/ and check out the video of the press release... this is all covered there.  This tour isn't for money, and the Gabriel tour WILL happen sometime in the future, if Gabriel decides it should happen.  You shouldn't really be angry at anybody for this, but Gabriel certainly takes more of the blame for this current tour than Collins, Banks or Rutherford have.
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Points: 7 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 03:53

Instead of blaming Genesis for choosing a 3 members reunion, you should blame Gabriel for being such a selfish artist. What does he have to lose anyway?. You call him the progressive soul of Genesis?. He was the first one to quit the genre !!!!.

He doesn't want to sing The Lamb again because he doesn't care about it. Collins himself said he would like to be behind the drums and see Gabriel do the singing in a full The lamb show. Isn't that a prog spirit?. Gabriel instead is about to release an album with 5 out of 9 songs with mild, slow, almost sleepy songs as in UP. Some 3 outdated pop songs as The Barry William show. Oh but noooo. "Mr. Collins how dare you making a tour with a 3 musicians lineup???".
 
Blame Collins for singing pop in a Genesis tack?. Blame Gabriel for never playing or composing a single prog note in the 70s, !!!!. 
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Points: 2463 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 04:26
Originally posted by El Morula El Morula wrote:

Blame Collins for singing pop in a Genesis tack?. Blame Gabriel for never playing or composing a single prog note in the 70s, !!!!. 


I enjoyed your detailed defense of Phil's drumming in that other thread, but there's no need to start playing a new blame game, this time aimed at Gabriel.

There's a life OUTSIDE prog, you know.

Albums such as PG III or PG IV may be just 'rock', or even 'pop' or whatever you want to call them, but they're almost as fascinating as anything Gabriel ever did with Genesis.
    
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Points: 51 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 07:04
Blame Gabriel for being a "selfish artist"?

So now he can't do what he wants, he has to bow to us? I sure am disappointed, but I'm not about to shake my little fist at Peter Gabriel and berate him for exercising some of his basic human rights.

You are more than entitled to dislike PG's post Genesis music, just as he is entitled to do what he wants. What I do find nauseating about the tour is that fact it's happening at all, for a miriad of reasons.
There are 10 types of people in this world - those who understand binary form, and those who don't.
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Points: 1119 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 13:08
I have the tickets, nah nah nah
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El Morula View Drop Down
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Points: 7 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 14:15
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by El Morula El Morula wrote:

Blame Collins for singing pop in a Genesis tack?. Blame Gabriel for never playing or composing a single prog note in the 70s, !!!!. 


I enjoyed your detailed defense of Phil's drumming in that other thread, but there's no need to start playing a new blame game, this time aimed at Gabriel.

There's a life OUTSIDE prog, you know.

Albums such as PG III or PG IV may be just 'rock', or even 'pop' or whatever you want to call them, but they're almost as fascinating as anything Gabriel ever did with Genesis.
    
 
Thanks !!. Yeah man !!, you are right. There is no need to start a bashing poll for Gabriel.
You know?, I started listning to prog at the age of 15, 17 years ago. Before that I would listen to 80's pop, one of the best decades for the genre. I heard Genesis after geting "In the air tonight" and later Invisible touch (album). My taste for Prog grew with that Genesis of the 80's. And I still enjoy it sometimes, many times as much as I enjoy The musical box. That's why I find so unffair all these bashing polls to Collins.
 
Has anybody who dislike Collins ever heard to Abacab (Live) carefully?. Listen to the energy and passion uin the instrumental !!. It still has that unique touch of joy Genesis developed in plain 73. It may not sound as odd and "progressive" (Where progressiveness gets quite subjective) but is original within their catalogue. Doen's anybody appreciate the wide variety of styles and sounds Gensis created throughout their carrer?....Hey !!, look at Yes who seemed to stick with the same pop style of Going for the one, for the next 15 years.
 
Listen to the instrumental in Fading lights (Live). Same thing. So inspired and so passionate, with those peak moments of pure energy and passion, and conviction. Nobody consider those aspects important?. It is very very easy to find complex, very "progressive" rock, odd, strange, unaccesible. I mean, as progressive as it gets. It is easy to find that one, and it won't be hard at all to find out most of it has no soul at all. To find out the instrumentals have no purpose or justification, that it never makes you feel excited. Bottom line, cheesy prog. Call 80's Genesis whatever you like; "POP-prog", "rock-pop" etc. But it is by no means bad music. There are more than a few forgetable songs in the 80's . But there is a good number of fantastic, inspired, made with full conviction and joy too. That !!!, is the most difficult thing to do in prog, pop, rap, metal, etc. To make music with true passion, music that touches your heart and makes you want to cry. That's also why I hate watching people bash Pop just like a sport. I repeat, Prog is not the only interesting genre in the world.
 
I find my self listening to 60's oldies for longer periods than I do with prog. With prog, when my player finds "Lark's toungues in aspic" with that 6 minutes of ultra boring intro, I think of nothing but listening to The four tops with their magical touch of freshness.
 
I went to far this time I guess.
 
 


Edited by El Morula - December 11 2006 at 14:17
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Frasse View Drop Down
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Points: 758 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 14:37
Originally posted by El Morula El Morula wrote:

 
I went to far this time I guess.
 
No, you didn't, It's good to see that not all Prog-fans are so close-minded (Hehe, hopefully I get some respones in using that word.Wink To provoce I think it's called)
 
Originally posted by Passionist Passionist wrote:

I have the tickets, nah nah nah
 
I almost had them, but they proved to be too expensive for me when the ticket company wanted 30 Euro for sending the tickets to me and I had to count for travel and accomodation too.
 
I will probably see The Musical Box in Gothenburg this spring instead, and wait hopefully for a 5-man reunion.


Edited by Frasse - December 11 2006 at 14:37
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Points: 90 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 15:22
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by rupert rupert wrote:

latest I've read in an advertise was:
Phil Collins / Mike Rutherford / Tony Banks / Darryl Stuermer / Chester Thompson...
this we had in 1991 before and I guess the songs they'll play will rather cover the period from the yellow "Genesis"-Album to "We can't dance" again, though... surprises may hopefully not be excluded.
 
Who the hell are those two??
 
 
What do you mean "who the hell are those two?".  Darryl Stuermer and Chester Thompson played constantly with Genesis from the time Steve Hackett left (1977) through to the early 1990s.  I saw them at Knebworth in 1978 when they were still playing pieces like 'Cinema Show' (in full) and 'One for the Vine'.  If anyone can play the 'old' Genesis numbers, it is Stuermer and Thompson.  To many people they are more Genesis than Anthony Phillips (albeit only as live performers, rather than writers).
 
The cynicism in this thread is wonderful :).  Is there nobody here who interprets the Genesis reunion as part of the ongoing recovery of prog amongst the youth of today.  Just think of the wonderful CD/DVD 'Into the Flesh' (Roger Walters).  Last summer he played *all* of Dark Side of the Moon as part of the gig in Hyde Park (London).  If we get something like that from Genesis - a 45-minute set from the 1973-1978 period, there are going to be a lot of happy hippies out there, as well as new audience for the back catalogue.  If they don't - we can still pack the Albert Hall to see The Musical Box.
 
Best wishes
Rory
 
 
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 15:30
Originally posted by protos protos wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by rupert rupert wrote:

latest I've read in an advertise was:
Phil Collins / Mike Rutherford / Tony Banks / Darryl Stuermer / Chester Thompson...
this we had in 1991 before and I guess the songs they'll play will rather cover the period from the yellow "Genesis"-Album to "We can't dance" again, though... surprises may hopefully not be excluded.
 
Who the hell are those two??
 
 
What do you mean "who the hell are those two?".  Darryl Stuermer and Chester Thompson played constantly with Genesis from the time Steve Hackett left (1977) through to the early 1990s.  I saw them at Knebworth in 1978 when they were still playing pieces like 'Cinema Show' (in full) and 'One for the Vine'.  If anyone can play the 'old' Genesis numbers, it is Stuermer and Thompson.  To many people they are more Genesis than Anthony Phillips (albeit only as live performers, rather than writers).
 
The cynicism in this thread is wonderful :).  Is there nobody here who interprets the Genesis reunion as part of the ongoing recovery of prog amongst the youth of today.  Just think of the wonderful CD/DVD 'Into the Flesh' (Roger Walters).  Last summer he played *all* of Dark Side of the Moon as part of the gig in Hyde Park (London).  If we get something like that from Genesis - a 45-minute set from the 1973-1978 period, there are going to be a lot of happy hippies out there, as well as new audience for the back catalogue.  If they don't - we can still pack the Albert Hall to see The Musical Box.
 
Best wishes
Rory
 
 
 
Calm, I've already learned that. I'm still discovering Genesis' albums (I'm almost done, only missing the last one and we can't dance) and I have yet to discover live Genesis or dvd genesis... I really didn't know.... Smile


Edited by The T - December 11 2006 at 15:30
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Points: 1991 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 16:26
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by protos protos wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by rupert rupert wrote:

latest I've read in an advertise was:
Phil Collins / Mike Rutherford / Tony Banks / Darryl Stuermer / Chester Thompson...

this we had in 1991 before and I guess the songs they'll play will rather cover the period from the yellow "Genesis"-Album to "We can't dance" again, though... surprises may hopefully not be excluded.

 

Who the hell are those two??

 

 

What do you mean "who the hell are those two?".  Darryl Stuermer and Chester Thompson played constantly with Genesis from the time Steve Hackett left (1977) through to the early 1990s.  I saw them at Knebworth in 1978 when they were still playing pieces like 'Cinema Show' (in full) and 'One for the Vine'.  If anyone can play the 'old' Genesis numbers, it is Stuermer and Thompson.  To many people they are more Genesis than Anthony Phillips (albeit only as live performers, rather than writers).

 

The cynicism in this thread is wonderful :).  Is there nobody here who interprets the Genesis reunion as part of the ongoing recovery of prog amongst the youth of today.  Just think of the wonderful CD/DVD 'Into the Flesh' (Roger Walters).  Last summer he played *all* of Dark Side of the Moon as part of the gig in Hyde Park (London).  If we get something like that from Genesis - a 45-minute set from the 1973-1978 period, there are going to be a lot of happy hippies out there, as well as new audience for the back catalogue.  If they don't - we can still pack the Albert Hall to see The Musical Box.

 

Best wishes

Rory

 

 

 

Calm, I've already learned that. I'm still discovering Genesis' albums (I'm almost done, only missing the last one and we can't dance) and I have yet to discover live Genesis or dvd genesis... I really didn't know.... [IMG]height=17 alt=Smile src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>


WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T KNOW THEM!!!!!! HUH??!!!!!


     

   

Just kidding, eh
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Points: 90 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 17:37
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by protos protos wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by rupert rupert wrote:

latest I've read in an advertise was:
Phil Collins / Mike Rutherford / Tony Banks / Darryl Stuermer / Chester Thompson...
this we had in 1991 before and I guess the songs they'll play will rather cover the period from the yellow "Genesis"-Album to "We can't dance" again, though... surprises may hopefully not be excluded.
 
Who the hell are those two??
 
 
What do you mean "who the hell are those two?".  Darryl Stuermer and Chester Thompson played constantly with Genesis from the time Steve Hackett left (1977) through to the early 1990s.  I saw them at Knebworth in 1978 when they were still playing pieces like 'Cinema Show' (in full) and 'One for the Vine'.  If anyone can play the 'old' Genesis numbers, it is Stuermer and Thompson.  To many people they are more Genesis than Anthony Phillips (albeit only as live performers, rather than writers).
 
The cynicism in this thread is wonderful :).  Is there nobody here who interprets the Genesis reunion as part of the ongoing recovery of prog amongst the youth of today.  Just think of the wonderful CD/DVD 'Into the Flesh' (Roger Walters).  Last summer he played *all* of Dark Side of the Moon as part of the gig in Hyde Park (London).  If we get something like that from Genesis - a 45-minute set from the 1973-1978 period, there are going to be a lot of happy hippies out there, as well as new audience for the back catalogue.  If they don't - we can still pack the Albert Hall to see The Musical Box.
 
Best wishes
Rory
 
 
 
Calm, I've already learned that. I'm still discovering Genesis' albums (I'm almost done, only missing the last one and we can't dance) and I have yet to discover live Genesis or dvd genesis... I really didn't know.... Smile
 
Cool (as my daughter would say) Wink
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Points: 33 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 20:02
My dad and I refuse to go to any concert without Steve because he is my dads favorite guitarist and one of my influences





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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2006 at 20:24
Originally posted by Chus Chus wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by protos protos wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by rupert rupert wrote:

latest I've read in an advertise was:
Phil Collins / Mike Rutherford / Tony Banks / Darryl Stuermer / Chester Thompson...

this we had in 1991 before and I guess the songs they'll play will rather cover the period from the yellow "Genesis"-Album to "We can't dance" again, though... surprises may hopefully not be excluded.

 

Who the hell are those two??

 

 

What do you mean "who the hell are those two?".  Darryl Stuermer and Chester Thompson played constantly with Genesis from the time Steve Hackett left (1977) through to the early 1990s.  I saw them at Knebworth in 1978 when they were still playing pieces like 'Cinema Show' (in full) and 'One for the Vine'.  If anyone can play the 'old' Genesis numbers, it is Stuermer and Thompson.  To many people they are more Genesis than Anthony Phillips (albeit only as live performers, rather than writers).

 

The cynicism in this thread is wonderful :).  Is there nobody here who interprets the Genesis reunion as part of the ongoing recovery of prog amongst the youth of today.  Just think of the wonderful CD/DVD 'Into the Flesh' (Roger Walters).  Last summer he played *all* of Dark Side of the Moon as part of the gig in Hyde Park (London).  If we get something like that from Genesis - a 45-minute set from the 1973-1978 period, there are going to be a lot of happy hippies out there, as well as new audience for the back catalogue.  If they don't - we can still pack the Albert Hall to see The Musical Box.

 

Best wishes

Rory

 

 

 

Calm, I've already learned that. I'm still discovering Genesis' albums (I'm almost done, only missing the last one and we can't dance) and I have yet to discover live Genesis or dvd genesis... I really didn't know.... [IMG]height=17 alt=Smile src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>


WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN YOU DON'T KNOW THEM!!!!!! HUH??!!!!!


     

   

Just kidding, eh
 
 
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Points: 610 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2007 at 12:13
Originally posted by Golden_void Golden_void wrote:

I think we'd all like to see a Gabriel-Genesis reunion, but can Collins keep his Ego in check for long enough just to play the drums? It seems unlikey. Unless the others have given him a lobotmy for free, allowing the great one to return and the nasty liitle man to remain behind his tubs! Hehe
 
I don't believe ths is a question of Collins' ego a t all. far as I know he'd prefeered it to play the drums only and let PG sing, bt PG doesn't participate now, so perhaps later. Hoho
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Points: 388 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2007 at 17:39

Based on all I've seen and read, Hackett doesn't feel welcome in the band, probably due to personality clashes with Banks.  And Gabriel doesn't feel comfortable retracing his steps and repeating what he did in his younger days, no matter how much fans would love to see him with the group.

Collins and Rutherford are not causing any problems in all of this.  Collins is the most agreeable and flexible person in the band (and always has been).  He doesn't deserve the venom that false Genesis "fans" throw at him.
 
 
 


Edited by Flip_Stone - January 04 2007 at 17:39
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Points: 19 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2007 at 18:45
Yeah Thats why Genesis went downhill 10 years after Peter Left!
Once a man, like the sea I raged, once a woman, like the Earth I gave, But there is in fact more earth than sea. GENESIS RULES!
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Points: 1455 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2007 at 04:17
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by rupert rupert wrote:

latest I've read in an advertise was:
Phil Collins / Mike Rutherford / Tony Banks / Darryl Stuermer / Chester Thompson...

this we had in 1991 before and I guess the songs they'll play will rather cover the period from the yellow "Genesis"-Album to "We can't dance" again, though... surprises may hopefully not be excluded.

 

Who the hell are those two??

 



You say earlier that you learned this already, so sorry if I am redundant: Stuermer is the guitarist who played with Genesis on tour after Hackett left (played with them a long time) and Thompson has been the second drummer on Genesis since at least the recording of 'Seconds Out' (after Bruford left as second drummer to form UK). While even Rutherford could play as good or better than Stuermer, Thompson on drums again could be a positive influence for them to consider playing some mid-1970s Genesis because that is when he played for them. Also, Thompson played Gabriel-era tunes with Hackett on Hackett's Tokyo Tapes (1996/1999). So, anything's possible! Thompson can come back, but Stuermer is not necessary....
    
    

Edited by prog4evr - January 05 2007 at 04:22
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2007 at 11:55
Originally posted by Flip_Stone Flip_Stone wrote:

Based on all I've seen and read, Hackett doesn't feel welcome in the band, probably due to personality clashes with Banks.  And Gabriel doesn't feel comfortable retracing his steps and repeating what he did in his younger days, no matter how much fans would love to see him with the group.


Collins and Rutherford are not causing any problems in all of this.  Collins is the most agreeable and flexible person in the band (and always has been).  He doesn't deserve the venom that false Genesis "fans" throw at him.


Seems to me Mr. Banks is the problem here. Gabriel's excuse seems lame, IMO. If it was the true excuse, I, as a fan, feel put out. It makes me wonder...if Banks is again the problem but Gabriel doesn't voice it.
    
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Points: 32 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2007 at 14:23
Wanna see Gabriel crawl back into his coccoon again? Seriously? That was more than 30 years ago...come on guys...

Let it be, Pete!

This Collins-hatred, has it appeared recently? After all, Phil is one of pop's finest singer ever...

Besides, I fear deep water more than pop...:)
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