We’re going down a slippery slope...

Thats cause Pete Sinfield when not a cynic, was quite the romantic...

"But of course you know I love you
Or what else am I here for
Only you not face to face
But side by side forever more
And I need to be here with you
For without you what am I
Just another fool out searching
For some heaven in the sky
Take me closer to believing
Take me forward, lead me on
Through collision and confusion
While there's life beneath the sun
You are the reason I continue
So near for so long
So close yet so far away. "

Romance on a Yes album...??

Contained in everything I do
There's a love, I feel for you
Proclaimed in everything I write
You're the light
Burning, brightly

Onward through the night
Onward through the night
Onward through the night of my life

Displayed in all the things I see
There's a love you show to me
Portrayed in all the things you say
You're the day
Leading the way

Onward through the night
Onward through the night
Onward through the night of my life

Drkhouse wrote:

I think the first two collins genesis albums were prog but when Steve Hackett left the prog faded fast.As soon as romance became the main subject as far as im concerned it became pop not prog

Well Drkhouse, romance "per se" is not bad, there are some great romatic tracks by many prog bands, if you read the lyrics carefully, Musical Box is a romantic track because even when killed by Cinthya, little Henry was in love with her even after dead.

The first Supper's Ready song Lover's Leap is very romantic:

"Walking across the sitting-room, I turn the television off.
Sitting beside you, I look into your eyes.
As the sound of motor cars fades in the night time,
I swear I saw your face change, it didn't seem quite right.
... And it's hello babe with your guardian eyes so blue
Hey my baby don't you know our love is true.

Coming closer with our eyes,
a distance falls around our bodies.
Out in the garden, the moon seems very bright,
Six saintly shrouded men move across the lawn slowly.
The seventh walks in front with a cross held high in hand.
... And it's hey babe your supper's waiting for you
Hey my baby don't you know our love is true.

I've been so far from here,
Far from your warm arms.
It's good to feel you again,
It's been a long time. Hasn't it ?"

But I agree with you, W&W was the last great Genesis album, IMHO any later album is just bland and boring pop.

Iván 

Drkhouse wrote: I think the first two collins genesis albums were prog but when Steve Hackett left the prog faded fast.As soon as romance became the main subject as far as im concerned it became pop not prog"

Ivan wrote: Well Drkhouse, romance "per se" is not bad...But I agree with you, W&W was the last great Genesis album, IMHO any later album is just bland and boring pop."

Drkhouse and Ivan: I value and respect the balanced way in which you submit your opinions. I have very often felt exactly the same as way as both of you on a lot of topics and found your posts to always be thoughtful and interesting...but:

1. I'm confused. Reading through various posts and record reviews on this site I have often seen songs and albums condemned for lacking emotion, heart, or passion. Yet romance (which is a product of heart and/or emotion and or passion) is what makes prog bland, boring, or pop-like? Which is it that folks want?

Although I really love it when the music is played with a high degree of technical acumen, I often wish that it was accompanied by compelling emotional energy. Progressive metal often, but not always, fails to combine both. However, there are many Prog are bands that do combine both skill and heart, and Genesis, even post-Hackett Genesis, is one of the best examples.

2. Please explain to me how the following are pop and not prog:

• From "ATTWT": Down and Out, Ballad of Big, Burning Rope, Deep in the Motherlode, The Lady Lies
• From "Duke": The Duchess Suite (Behind the Lines, Duchess, Guide Vocal, Duke's Travels, Dukes End), Man of Our Times, Cul-de-Sac
• From "Abacab": Abacab, Me And Sarah Jane, Keep It Dark, Dodo / Lurker, Who Dunnit, Like It Or Not, Another Record
• From "Genesis": Mama, Home By The Sea/Second Home By The Sea, Just A Job To Do, Silver Raimbow
• From "Invisible Touch": Tonight, Tonight, Tonight (LP version), Land Of Confusion, Domino (In The Glow Of The Night/The Last Domino), The Brazilian
• From "We Can't Dance": Driving The Last Spike, Dreaming While You Sleep, Fading Lights.

Granted, Genesis was moving in a commercial direction as time went on, but the list above has more "prog", is more "proggy", and IMO has better "prog", than you can find in the entire catologues of Enchant, Supertramp, IQ, Jadis, Arena, Grey Eye Glances, Asia, Kansas, Queensryche, Dream Theatre, Threshold (all bands whose music I own a lot of, and enjoy immensely) just to name a few.

You don't have to like post-Hackett Genesis, and it doesn't bother me that you think it's bland or boring (power to you), but please, don't mis-label it with blanket statements like "As soon as romance became the main subject as far as im concerned it became pop not prog", or "W&W was the last great Genesis album, IMHO any later album is just...pop." I think they are incorrect.  It sounds to me like you haven't given this stuff much of a chance, which is unfortunate because I think you're missing out on some excellent prog (IMHO).

Take Care.

threefates wrote: James Lee wrote: That's a lot of non-ELP posts, threefates. Are you feeling OK? What do you mean James... that first one (Closer to Believing) might of mostly been written by Sinfield... but sang extremely beautifuly by one Mr. Greg Lake...

 oops- got me

As soon as romance became the main subject as far as im concerned it became pop not prog", or "W&W was the last great Genesis album, IMHO any later album is just...pop."

Well Arbiter, I have to say a few things:

1. Romance: As I say in my post romance "per se" (by, of, or in itself or oneself or themselves : as such) is not bad, I like romance and consider myself a romantic guy, when I fall in love I'm always the one that loves more, so how can I think romance in music is bad?
2. W&W was the last great Genesis album: a) I said that and I still believe in what I say. When Hackett left Genesis, they lost their principal characteristic, the atmospheric sound of his guitar mixed with Tony's keyboards. b) They also lost the mystery and darknes that was a trademark of the early Genesis. c) The goal of the band changed from the search of the musical quality for the search of the top ten hit.
3. IMHO any later album is just...pop.":  I also stand for this opinion, the vcchange in the bands's soound was dramatic, no more inteligent deep lyrics, great atmospheric guitar and glorious mellotron. The band is another one.
4. You may find one or two proggt songs after W&W but nothing more, for exampla Mama is not prog, because it's repetitive, boring and a guy shouting doesn't make a song progressive. It's different than the music they werev releasing but it isn't prog.
5. Phil Collins said in Genesis a History: "We became popular when we stopped releasing progressive music, theysay our new songs are boring....yes it's true but borin is good", so if the guy who took the lead of the band says it, who are we to doubt it?
6. Phil Collins is a prove that he was not interested in prog' any more, just explain the Disney Connection or his appearence with N'Sync"

Iván

Thanks Dambo, wanted to add a few things that you mentioned:

Romance is very much in the Prog vein. It's quite different than the bland and obvious sexuality of modern pop.

Iván