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Atkingani 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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 Posted: November 15 2006 at 13:01 |
This Free Trade Agreement of the Americas is like the joint-venture between the hen and the pig.
The hen invited the pig for a joint-venture in order to supply commodities for the local restaurant. The hen said:
- Hey, pig, let's join and do what's needed; I'll supply the eggs and you'll supply the bacon.
The pig replied:
- Not funny, this way I'll die and you'll receive all the profits.
The hen concluded:
- Well, that's how a joint-venture works, one of the partners has to die! 
Thankfully, my country didn't sign this "Agreement" and helped to torpedo this idea that wants to transform all Latin American countries in "pigs".
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Guigo
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KoS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310
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Posted: November 15 2006 at 14:36 |
 inpraiseoffolly wrote:
The best solution is to make there be no reason for them to come to the U.S. If they cannot get a job here, they won't come. Why waste money deporting or building a wall when we can punish companies that employ them. If they fire all the illegals, they'll have to go home (or starve). The best wall is a legal wall put up to prevent all but legal immigrants from getting access to the benefits of being an American citizen. |
Doesn't work. The only way to solve it is if both countries work together to combat the problem.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 15 2006 at 15:45 |
The only way to stop the illegal inmigration not in a short lapse of time is stopping the American way of life propaganda.
USA politicians keep saying in all public forums, we are the greatest, people is free here, everybody can get a job, we are better than any other country, the land of the free, blah blah blah.
Stop that, say the truth, the Social Seccurity is about to collapse, there's not enough jobs for USA citizens, illegal inmigrants are exploited, if you don't have insurance you will die, there's no future for more foreigners, we are not the best place to live.
But, when they need votes or need to fight any dictator they start again with the propaganda, then if you tell people USA is the paradise, why do you ask the reason why more inmigrants go there......because they buy the story.
Iván
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: November 15 2006 at 21:31 |
We should build a wall just so we can have David Hasslehoff stand over it and sing a song while we tear it down. 
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memowakeman
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 19 2005
Location: Mexico City
Status: Offline
Points: 13032
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Posted: November 15 2006 at 22:24 |
stonebeard wrote:
We should build a wall just so we can have David Hasslehoff stand over it and sing a song while we tear it down. |
Damn! i couldn`t have thought in a better idea 
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 01:01 |
ClemofNazareth wrote:
I am married to a Mexican national and have over 50 in-laws who live there, so on a personal level this is grossly offensive to me.
From a pragmatic standpoint, there have been a lot of jokes about the U.S. having to hire Mexicans to build that wall. I believe people need to think very carefully about that. The Hispanic demographics for the four states across which this wall will run:
Arizona - 26%
New Mexico - 42%
Texas - 32%
California - 32%
So really - who is going to build this thing? Is the government going to bring in labor from other parts of the country? If so, there are going to be serious problems in those communities, especially the ones around where Hurricane Katrina struck and people are still suffering and not particularly happy with their government anyway.
There are also bound to be many confrontations, demonstrations, sabotage, and general violence around the construction sites by people on both sides of the issue. Even beyond the demographics of the number of Hispanics in those states, there are many, many more families who are multi-racial with one of the spouses being Hispanic. These families will be affected in cases where one or more family member works on the wall, or demonstrates on behalf of one or the other side of the issue.
There will be economic and social impacts for families, friends, businesses, churches, and social groups who currently have members that live on both sides of the border. Just ask anyone who was caught on the wrong side when the Berlin Wall went up, or when the DMZ was fenced off in Korea. Thousands of personal relationships were torn apart and lives shattered.
And like virtually everything else the Bush administration has proposed, the purpose of this wall is based on his immature, reactionary, and overly-simplified view of the world. It would be sadly appropriate if he ordered the wall to be painted black & white.
But on a lighter note - I'm sure there are already bookmakers taking odds on whether the wall will ever even be completed. I know which side my money is on...
One other thought - I wonder which U.S. firm will be the first to buy advertising space on that wall if it actually does get built? 
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Great, insightful post!
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 14:20 |
This is an outrage, really!.
US steals territory and they expect ovations because erecting a wall is "necessary" for their sovereignty... or their "EMPIRE"?.
This is just another version of the wall of Berlin, considering that the borders are filled with mexican relatives.
The UN can't do anything but suggest, since G.W. Bush proved that organizations' incompetence when dealing with sovereignty of countries like Iraq or Puerto Rico. Bush feels he can do whatever the hell he likes because the UN won't really give a frog's butt (by the way, you should watch that movie "The Day After Tomorrow". It's simply more than just another natural-disaster movie rip-off..... it has a message for the americans regarding their brother countries).
Edited by Chus - November 16 2006 at 14:33
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Jesus Gabriel
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 14:25 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The only way to stop the illegal inmigration not in a short lapse of time is stopping the American way of life propaganda.
USA politicians keep saying in all public forums, we are the greatest, people is free here, everybody can get a job, we are better than any other country, the land of the free, blah blah blah.
Stop that, say the truth, the Social Seccurity is about to collapse, there's not enough jobs for USA citizens, illegal inmigrants are exploited, if you don't have insurance you will die, there's no future for more foreigners, we are not the best place to live.
But, when they need votes or need to fight any dictator they start again with the propaganda, then if you tell people USA is the paradise, why do you ask the reason why more inmigrants go there......because they buy the story.
Iván |
I agree entirely with that... then again in europe there's a lot of immigration and the social security system works for natives and immigrants as well... even illegals!... so America is not the first choice nowadays... of course mexicans and cubans will have to choose America because of the relatively close distance...
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Jesus Gabriel
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 16:44 |
The best choice is to stay home (and fight for less corruption and better conditions)!
I don't know the real situation all over Mexico and some other countries but here in Brazil we had some years ago a kind of trend from some shameful middle-class who left the country seeking for a "better life" outside. The majority is on a critical position or returned with a sour taste in the mouth!
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Guigo
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7003
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Posted: November 16 2006 at 17:04 |
It will be a colossal waste of time and money which will utterly fail in its purpose. A wall won't stop anybody with sufficient determination and some basic ladder, tunnel or boat building skills, to say nothing of access to air transport. After all, the UK has a minimum of 22 miles of open sea all around its notional borders and we have no shortage of illegal immigrants here.
What a wall will do is boost opportunities for organised crime to profit from people trafficking and simultaneously cause resentment, discontent and anti-US feeling in Latin America.
There is a real problem to be dealt with, but a wall is not the solution.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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jalas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 07 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 283
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 14:40 |
Maybe if the American corporations that exploit people in Latin America were to pay descent wages, then there will not have to be a wall. All the problems that the US has, the US brings it on itself. 
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JOIN THE COMMUNIST PARTY!
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KoS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Points: 16310
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Posted: November 17 2006 at 18:23 |
jalas wrote:
Maybe if the American corporations that exploit people in Latin America were to pay descent wages, then there will not have to be a wall. All the problems that the US has, the US brings it on itself. |
That's the weird thing, people here complain about losing jobs to immigrants when huge companies like Ford and GM outsource all their jobs to other countries for cheap labor.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: November 18 2006 at 00:48 |
jalas wrote:
Maybe if the American corporations that exploit people in Latin America were to pay descent wages, then there will not have to be a wall. All the problems that the US has, the US brings it on itself. |
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 21:17 |
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
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Posted: January 03 2007 at 21:51 |
This poll is outdated, Markos... the "news" are old and everything to be said was said.
Let the poll RIP. Thanks!
Edited by Atkingani - January 03 2007 at 21:52
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Guigo
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wall between USA and Mexico
