wall between USA and Mexico
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Topic: wall between USA and Mexico
Posted By: markosherrera
Subject: wall between USA and Mexico
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 10:22
| For me is an insult. |
Replies:
Posted By: WaywardSon
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 11:01
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Tear down the wall!
It will probably be torn down anyway, after the next presidential elections
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Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 12:14
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I am married to a Mexican national and have over 50 in-laws who live there, so on a personal level this is grossly offensive to me.
From a pragmatic standpoint, there have been a lot of jokes about the U.S. having to hire Mexicans to build that wall. I believe people need to think very carefully about that. The Hispanic demographics for the four states across which this wall will run: Arizona - 26% New Mexico - 42% Texas - 32% California - 32% So really - who is going to build this thing? Is the government going to bring in labor from other parts of the country? If so, there are going to be serious problems in those communities, especially the ones around where Hurricane Katrina struck and people are still suffering and not particularly happy with their government anyway. There are also bound to be many confrontations, demonstrations, sabotage, and general violence around the construction sites by people on both sides of the issue. Even beyond the demographics of the number of Hispanics in those states, there are many, many more families who are multi-racial with one of the spouses being Hispanic. These families will be affected in cases where one or more family member works on the wall, or demonstrates on behalf of one or the other side of the issue. There will be economic and social impacts for families, friends, businesses, churches, and social groups who currently have members that live on both sides of the border. Just ask anyone who was caught on the wrong side when the Berlin Wall went up, or when the DMZ was fenced off in Korea. Thousands of personal relationships were torn apart and lives shattered. And like virtually everything else the Bush administration has proposed, the purpose of this wall is based on his immature, reactionary, and overly-simplified view of the world. It would be sadly appropriate if he ordered the wall to be painted black & white. But on a lighter note - I'm sure there are already bookmakers taking odds on whether the wall will ever even be completed. I know which side my money is on... One other thought - I wonder which U.S. firm will be the first to buy advertising space on that wall if it actually does get built? 
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 12:34
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With you here guys. This is a silly act of over-simplification, as put by Clem above. When are the next elections, that can put an end to this?
------------- http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 12:46
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It's incredible. for decades USA was the leader country against the Berlin Wall, people in USA and Republican politicians cheered the day it was destroyed.
Now they do exactly the same thing, there will be families divided at both sides of the wall...what will be next? Will they place snipers in the wall to shoot any horrible Mexican that approaches to the wall???
Rmember Ich bin ein Berliner?????
Today will be "Yo soy Mexicano"
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Stefanovic
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 12:53
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They'd better built a wall to isolate G.W. Bush and his likes from the rest of mankind... That way, it would be safer! |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 13:15
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Seriously, I don't feel myself insulted... as for the Berlin Wall the shame goes to the builder. I believe that the vast majority of American citizens, including many that are critics of "illegal immigration" don't want this kind of separation. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 13:25
| I see that as an insult to Latin America, although I'm not Latin American. It's a bit like the Berlin wall. |
Posted By: video vertigo
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 15:37
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I don't see it as necessary but not an insult either.
Its totally different than the Berlin wall because that separated one nation not two. ------------- "The rock and roll business is pretty absurd, but the world of serious music is much worse." - Zappa |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 15:38
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How can you compare this to the Berlin Wall?
The BW was built to keep people from escaping a Communist state,a wall at our border is for keeping people from entering our country illegally,which is a CRIME. Maybe you all ought to live here for awhile,I'll let you talk to all my friends who can't get work or our being replaced at jobs they held for years because of cheap,tax free labor by illegal immigrants. -------------  |
Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 17:04
| Question: Does everyone actually think the wall is meant to be an insult? Why would they build a wall to insult somebody? That's just silly. Also, I couldn't help but notice that of all the people showing dislike of the wall, there was only one American. And I 100% agree with all the people who think the Berlin Wall comparison is silly. Is it so bad to put your own people's well-being ahead of another country's people? Countries work because they have a set of rules you must follow or face consequences. When people start to break the rules and you just shrug your shoulders and let them, that's when countries start to fall apart. |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 17:25
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Open borders or a "Berlin" wall isn't going to solve the problem. The real problem is that it takes too freaking long to become a citizen, and if the government wasn't so involved in these social programs that these illegal immigrants take from, the tax burden (what the problem boils down to) wouldn't even be an issue. |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:02
With due respect, I think that last comment is a little bit disingenuous. I seriously doubt many of anyone's friends has lost a legitimate job to an illegal alien. Very few legitimate companies would risk knowingly giving a job to an illegal. The unemployment rate in this country is 4.4%. The average hourly wage is $16.91. Granted, there are places in the country where jobs are scarce, particularly in former industrial areas. It's unlikely this is as much a result of illegal aliens taking jobs though. In most industries it's more a result of multinational corporations moving their operations to "low-cost countries". In those cases the jobs weren't taken by illegals, they were taken by the nationals who stayed in the countries where the jobs went. The argument that this wall is different than the Berlin Wall may be valid, but frankly it's a moot point. There are (by our government's own estimate) more than 10,000,000 illegal immigrants in this country. They are not going to leave of their own will, and they outnumber even the combined force of our military and national guard. That is a reality of our world that we must deal with. And we do not have some 'God-given' inalienable right to the borders that we have drawn around this land. Borders are conventions of governments, not of the people. Our country is made up of 300,000,000 people, and virtually none of them 'came from here'. As long as we are a nation of immigrants (which will probably be forever), we will have people whose interests and ties extend beyond borders. Bricking up those borders will not remove those interests, and social friction will be the result. Mexico is a strategic trade partner for this country, and many 'American' firms have moved factories and jobs there. We cannot simply build a wall and tell these neighbors that the border is 'closed'. It's laughable and arrogant for us to believe this will stop anyone. All this wall will serve to do is to further erode our country's reputation and international relations even further. Immigration is a serious problem in this country. So is poverty, homelessness, and mental illness. We must deal with these social issues head-on, not by hiding them behind a wall and pretending that they have gone away. ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
TheProgtologist wrote:Posted By: Sasquamo
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:12
Yeah right. I'll bet a large percentage of Mexicans in states near Mexico are illegal immigrants. Companies now what they're getting into, they like cheap labor. |
Posted By: Australian
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:33
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Off topic but: There is a similar situation in Immigrants make a country great; Foreign born in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands - Collectively 150,966 respondents (0.9%) were born in countries now known as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia - - Montenegro , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia - - Republic of Macedonia . ------------- 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:40
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I hate the idea...it's seems so, stupid IMO.
I wouldn't say an insult, but definitley a terrible idea to me.
I know this goes against politics itself, but we need a real solution. The problem is, I assume, that people are going to America for work oppurtunities. If we could work with Mexico somehow to improve things there, so they wouldn't HAVE to come... I think that'd be the way to go.
How we would do that? I have no f***ing clue, but it's just a thought I had.
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:40
The old lesson is that you cannot build a wonderful garden in your frontyard and throw the garbage in the backyard. If appropriate investments were done in Mexico and Central America in the past 100 years the situation could be tolerable now, with only the natural exchange of people in-and-out. Also part of the problem could be avoided if employers were fined or jailed for using illegal workmanship, but I think it does not happen and the guilt remains only with the invaders. 
As for my country, around 3 million people (~ 2% of the population) left in the last 25 years, going mainly to North America, Western Europe & Japan but we are still receiving a great number of immigrants from our neighbour countries in South America and from Asia and Africa. According to some trustable sources the number of Brazilians leaving has been smaller than the number of Brazilians returning in the last 2 years. Brazilians in the USA live mainly in the Boston-NY area and in Florida, with small communities in California and Hawaii (surfers?). ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: andu
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:41
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just a minor observation: it does look like dealing with the effects and not dealing with the causes. ------------- "PA's own GI Joe!" 
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:41
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My statement about cheap illegal labor is valid.I live in a blue-collar city and most of the people I know have blue collar jobs(construction workers,landscapers,road building,etc.),and they are losing them to immigrants,and all these companies are legitimate.Do you know there is a thriving industry in Baltimore?It's called forging documents,especially immigration papers and green cards.
We have a very large company in this state called Crouse Construction.A large number of people I know used to work there.They were widening a main thoroughfare near my house for 2 months and not ONE worker was Caucasian or African-American,they were ALL Hispanic. I am not a bigot,I am not racist.But if you are going to live here you ought to be here legally.Period. ------------- |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:51
Jody, I was certainly not suggesting you are a bigot. I don't know you personally, but I've never gotten that impression from your many threads. But really, just because the workers are Hispanic, do you know that they are illegal, or just suspect? I also live in a town where there is a very large labor employer and almost all their employees are minorities, most of them immigrants (believe me, 'real' Africans, Laotians, former Yugoslavians, and Latin Americans stand out in a state that is more than 92% white!). But I also know that the INS rousts the place regularly, and illegals do not last there long. If the illegals have papers that allow them to 'pass' for being legal, a walled border will simply mean new cottage industries for getting them here. It won't stop those who are determined. Like several others have said, we have to address the root causes, not the symptoms. ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:53
Okay, this might make you think about your opinions:
 d------------- 
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Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:56
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*snicker* ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Arrrghus
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 18:57
Well, pitures speak louder than you laugh.  -------------
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 19:10
I don't think you were calling me or insinuating I was bigoted,Clem.But some of what I say may sound bigoted,and I don't mean to give that impression.The whole immigration debate is a very hot button topic in this state,and everyone I know personally around here feels the same way I do.I'm just fed up,sorry but that's how I feel.I don't see any easy solution to the problem either.It's so easy to get frustrated about things you have no perceptable control over. Peace. ------------- |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 19:38
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I'm against illegal inmigration uin any country, here it happens but the difference is simple.
We need to go to the Embasy at 5:00 am, wait until 10.00 am make a two blocks row, wait for an arrogant low rank funtionary who asks us for all our personal history, then leave the papers for 24 hours and if this guy wants he gives us a Visa (But we have to pay first).
I never had problems with my visa but I seen people rejected just because an arrogant redneck didn't liked his/her face.
As long as you make this kind of problems, you will have illegal inmigrants.
In the other hand USA people come here without visa and shout in the airport that they can't be checked because they are "American Citizens".
The funny thing is that USA encouraged Cubans to leave the island as propaganda against Fidel Castro (I agree he's a criminal dictator) but they don't want Mexicans (Despite Texas was Mexico), so this country sold their idea of the American way of llife to the rest of the world but know that they don't need it because there's no more USSR they start making troubles.
70% of the inmates in the Women Jail in Perú are USA citizens ("BURRAS" = DONKEYS) who tried to leave the country with drugs, I don't believe the percentage of Peruvians is so high.
There's not a single Peruvian involved in acts of terrorism in USA, but we have one in jail (Found with plans of the Congress, fake ID and address of all the congressmen hidding in a Terrorist safe house) and another one claimed by USA Government that was allowed to leave.
WHO SHOULD BE CHECKED AND LEFT OUTSIDE?????
Iván -------------
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 19:47
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 19:57
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Like I said earlier, I wish there was some way to work with Mexico and improve the economic situation there, so they would not have to come here.
I'm just not sure how we'd be able to do that...
As for immigration, NO problem with it. Unless you're Native American, we're ALL descended from immigrants, and they've had huge impacts on our country.
However, they should be doing it legally.
Sorry for the double post
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Posted By: andu
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 19:57
i didn't expect my minor observation would generate such a wave. actually it's not sure if it was actually me who said that, as it was credited to "several others", or wait, was that just me and my split personality?  
------------- "PA's own GI Joe!"
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 20:06
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Sorry, but I see it to be a bigger insult to enter into a country without that country's consent and to diminish the legal population of that country's importance/resonance than it is to build a wall to keep the seemingly unstappable wave out. If there is another way other than a wall, I've love to hear it. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 20:08
Please, that's not the problem, I know proffesionals who had a decent standart here (Not rich but could live well) that went to USA to be exploited WHY?
Because USA sold the rest of the world the idea of the American way of life being the best in the world and some idiots bought it.
They kept selling this idea during all the cold war and now they don't need to sell it because the USSR doesn't exist, they don't want more people inside their country.
USA caused the inmigrant problem as a way to fight communism, so now they should accept their mistakes.
Ok it's their right to limit the inmigrants, but building a wall is not the solution, I'm sure the young USA kids will cross the border to Mexico every weekend to get drunk and get laid in Tijuana and USA would make a case if any country limited their God given right to enter to any country.
That's what pisses me.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 20:21
hahhahahahah we have a saying here in the American south.... Right On Brother!!!! here's a couple of clappies for you Ivan  The time for such silliness is over now that the dems are back in power. Pandering the people who think the America is or should be the nation of the 1950's. The multicultural face of this country is here to stay. This country depends on those illegals.. those who bitch about them.. would be the first to bitch when prices skyrocket here due to having to pay 'amercians' to do important jobs that are considered to be 'underneath' them. Grow up people. They have the privilage of working in 'safe' enviroment.. and we benefit in low prices. Both sides win. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 20:27
According to diplomatic reciprocity (observed internationally) Brazil gives US citizens the same treatment given by the US to Brazilian citizens. No way I'll pay US$ 100.00 and wait 6 months for a visa to visit Amerika.
Next year, I intend again to go to Europe and who knows met some (many) of my PA buddies. The possibility to meet folks like Jody, Clem, Peter (Canada also requires a visa, unfortunately) & others will be left to the future, maybe after 2008.  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 20:28
Well, there is no easy answer, for sure. But just to get the 'creative juices' flowing: The cost to the U.S. government for the war in Iraq the past three years has totalled more than $341,000,000,000. The population of Mexico is about 107,000,000. 68,000,000 are of working age. 30% are unemployed or underemployed. The per capita income there is $6,770 (US dollars). Less than half of the money spent fighting the war in Iraq would have been enough to provide living-wage funding to the entire working population of Mexico that is unemployed or underemployed over these past three years. I am not suggesting we just give away billions to Mexico, but it does cause one to think a bit about priorities. People don't just pick up and leave their homes for the heck of it. My wife still loves her home country. I would prefer to still be living in my home state of Montana. But there is no work for us in either place, and we have kids to feed and bills to pay. So do Mexican families. Like others have said before, we have to address root causes, not symptoms. ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 20:32
Not direct transfers but huge, serious and honest investments. Aren't these 2 nations capitalists?  ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 20:32
ahhhh... we have another saying in the American south Goddamn right and that last statement is also the fundamental failure of this county's so called 'war on terror' but that is off-topic here ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 20:38
| Make a wall in USA-Mexico frontier,is stupid.........,can you imagine Europa doing a wall in the mediterranean sea,for stop inmigrants of Africa.I believe there are leaders with very low I.Q..............SOME COMPANYS ARE COMPETITIVES,THANKS THE INMIGRANTS and they cant pay rent taxes because they win very low ,but they are a market too,they move the economy ,they eat,they buy dress, etc , they pay indirect taxes....they are recovering spaces,.for example in New Orleans, and after all ,they are humans with feelings and hopes. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 20:45
exactly.... I wouldn't say the leaders who wanted this have low IQ's. It's just political pandering to right wing wackos.. without any practical consideration to the impact it would have here. Thankfully the american public woke up and saw it before we were paying $5 for a head of lettuce The freedom that makes this country so .... great and appealing is the freedom here. Short of becoming a police state (staying away from that for now ) there is really nothing to be done about illegal immigration but TRY to control it. My two cents......------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 11 2006 at 23:30
I just received a PM from a member (Woon't mention his name because PM's must remain private) disgusted becauseof the use I doid of the term redneck, and I will clarify it because I have nothing against USA citizens but specifically against a funtionaty of USA Embasy in Perú back in 1991:
That guy acted as a redneck in all senses which BTW is not a racist term, it's more cultural, I'm as white as he is, but I'm also proud of my latin inheritance, and I felt insulted because it's desrespectful for a foreign officer to insult people from a country that is receiving him.
The guy who attended me was very educated and polite but probably because I'm not a classical native Peruvian and I worked for a big company in those days.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 00:17
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I think it's funny that the people who will probably be building the wall are the very ones the wall is meant to keep out. |
Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 00:35
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I have a very strong opinion of this but will sway from opinion here. Just know that I am a border state citizen, and thus in the middle of all this. ------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums |
Posted By: bamba
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 00:57
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It's an insult, and its not a solution for the real problem. The reason why Latin amaerican people need to cross the border; thats the real question. ------------- Learning Flute [Amigo de Manticore y Memowakeman] (primo)[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2187/2437702285_fbb450500d_o.jpg |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 01:31
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is neccessary??? no way....
Okay, the problem of stop immigrants is neccesary, but the root of the problem has to be solved here in Mexico, the idea of building a wall is just ridicolous, sadly so many people believe that the best way to a better life is crossing the frontier and arrive to that wonderland called USA, and so many people has success and they live better, but the most of them have to be exploted and work without dignity just to have a few cents more.
It`s coming a new president here in Mexico, who as well as the other ones has promised to make an effort with the immigration problem, but it has to start from the beggining, with more employment to our fellow people and with a better pay, sadly the situation here is sooo divided between the same government, so i dont see a brighter future in this topic, so i could say that we share the fault of this problem, and i said share, because it`s a give and take, the same US people are accomplice of immigration, they "help" Mexicans to cross the line, then they make them work, earn money without working and then pay a misery to the immigrants who after hard days of work, start their new trip to a better life.
Yes, the problem has to be solved, it`s a huge and hard problem indeed, but building a wall???.... bullsh*t....
------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 01:56
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Ironic is that probably +80% of the illegal immigrants are so-called Native Americans! In the past, what actually is the SW of the USA and North and Central Mexico was dominated by tribes of the Ute language/culture, then "civilized people" came and defined a border; those north of it (apaches, payutes, navajos, hopis, etc) are full citizens, those south of the border are undesirable, to say the least.
Most ironic, there is 1 million illegal Europeans living/working in the USA. They come from everywhere, not only Eastern Europe but some "rich countries", like Italy or the UK. In terms of jobs, they are much more "dangerous" to the average white/afro US citizen than the traditional ilegales. What to do with these people? ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 04:17
Kill them, of course - especially those coming from Italy! Guigo, my friend, you just gave me a great idea... What if I became an illegal immigrant myself?Seriously (and very much so) speaking, I think the whole idea is insulting and ridiculous. And, before any of you tells me that I have no idea, I'll remind you that Italy - being surrounded by the sea on three sides - is one of the countries most targeted by illegal immigration. In the past five years, since I came back to live here, I've heard all sorts of talk about this topic - including those a**holes from the Lega Nord suggesting the army fire cannons against the various kinds of seacraft daily heading from North Africa towards the coast of Sicily. Besides, there is another uncomfortable truth to be faced: illegal immigration exists and is so rife because there are those who take advantage from it - those dishonest employers who make a profit out of people's desire for a better life (or, in some cases, outright desperation), exploiting the situation in order to pay them less, be able to blackmail them, and avoid paying taxes. This is what happens in Italy, especially in such sectors as the construction industry. |
Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 12:25
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I see a lot of people talking about causes and little talk of solution. If someone finds a logical solution that works and is cheap and effective, let me and the government know. Finding an acceptable solution for all parties involved would be well, near impossible. I'm well aware of the causes of it. I think the government is too more or less. The problem is there is no real solution that works unless you were to spend billions of dollars trying to fix it, and I don't see that happening. The government wants to find a cheap solution. If you guys know of a cheap solution, please let my government know. ------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums |
Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 18:20
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If USA take the money that spend in the war of IRAK and use that money for aid,or give credits with low rate of interest to the industry and agriculture of Mexico and others country ,could be a solution but the president Bush,and his partners are too fascist, that is impossible for they think in humanitary way,they think in solutions of their business,i remember the actitude of bush in the hurricane katrina.and he prefer give money to the war and no maintain the defenses of new orleans |
Posted By: OpethGuitarist
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 22:04
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism No, I don't think so. ------------- back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: November 12 2006 at 23:20
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I see it as an insult to intelligence in general. The immigration "problem" aside. Do they really think building a big expensive fence is a viable solution? What gets me more is that they want me to believe it is. I may be a product of public education, but come on!
------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: SolariS
Date Posted: November 14 2006 at 01:48
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I think the idea is absurd. -------------  
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Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: November 14 2006 at 13:13
| the people emigrate,to work better ,to gain more,to find oportunities,the solution is give that oportunities in their countries ,is time to think in the cooperation ,between the countries,because the people that emigrate are people with soul,with spirit like you,like me ,this is my christian way of think,more than a only savage capitalism mentality,the cooperation is necessary,because the emigrant are million of people they are not only statistics,...all in the world is a cause and effect,for example,the narcotraffic,exist because there are a market,or consumers,and USA is the biggest.well .the problem of inmigration could be resolve with more positive politics,not with walls |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: November 14 2006 at 13:32
| Has this wall been seriously suggested? |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: November 14 2006 at 19:05
Unfortunately yes, my friend. In fact, Bush signed a http://www.cctv.com/english/20061027/101263.shtml - bill into law just two weeks ago to order it built. A billion dollars has already been allocated, although we're not sure this will be enough. 
On a brighter note though, as many have already noted above - the Democrats who last week took control of the U.S. House and Senate are more than likely going to try to http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20061110-015323-5259r - scrap the whole thing. ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: November 14 2006 at 19:37
We give aid,money and food to alot of countries,and while I am not against it,there are alot of homeless,unemployed and starving people here in the US too. Maybe Mexico should clean up it's incredibly corrupt government and the people wouldn't want to leave. And...it's the US Army Corps of Engineers that are rebuilding the New Orleans levee system. ------------- |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 14 2006 at 19:57
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Sad to say, Jody, but US companies receive yearly twice or thrice the money applied by the US government in any country. All lose, the US taxpayers who support the government, the people in the countries where the aid is supposed to go. The only winners are investors, bankers and a minority economical elite at those countries.
In the past, every time certain less corrupt governments in Latin America or other backyard parts tried to limit the money remittance they were generally thrown away by militaries sponsored by the same big companies behind the scenes. Presently, these huge transnational businesses have other means to receive the astronomical profits made elsewhere (with few left where the profits came).
It's really not an exclusive policy of US companies, all act equally be them French, British, German, Japanese, etc. Even companies from emergent countries like Brazil do the same in poorer countries. It's called Capitalism, the economical philosophy that unfortunately is associated with "democracy".
Unless this policy could be driven to a satisfactory compromise we all will continue to lose money and jobs or building walls or firing refugee ships or worse. ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: November 14 2006 at 23:07
------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: November 14 2006 at 23:16
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We need walls if we ever want to break them ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: An old fart
Date Posted: November 15 2006 at 00:31
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I can't think of this wall in any other way than it being an arrogant gesture from neoconservative American politians to let the Latin American people feel they are second class human beings from which the USA must be saved from. Good thing though, just like Clem mentioned, the Democrats are in majority in the U.S. House and Senate now, so this wall will likely not become reality. It certainly shouldn't. ------------- "Make tea, not love" |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 15 2006 at 01:40
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Posted By: heyitsthatguy
Date Posted: November 15 2006 at 08:44
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Just throwing this out there, even if we do build a wall, couldn't the Mexicans just build a catapult? ------------- 
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Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: November 15 2006 at 12:35
| The best solution is to make there be no reason for them to come to the U.S. If they cannot get a job here, they won't come. Why waste money deporting or building a wall when we can punish companies that employ them. If they fire all the illegals, they'll have to go home (or starve). The best wall is a legal wall put up to prevent all but legal immigrants from getting access to the benefits of being an American citizen. |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 15 2006 at 13:01
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This Free Trade Agreement of the Americas is like the joint-venture between the hen and the pig.
The hen invited the pig for a joint-venture in order to supply commodities for the local restaurant. The hen said:
- Hey, pig, let's join and do what's needed; I'll supply the eggs and you'll supply the bacon.
The pig replied:
- Not funny, this way I'll die and you'll receive all the profits.
The hen concluded:
- Well, that's how a joint-venture works, one of the partners has to die!
 Thankfully, my country didn't sign this "Agreement" and helped to torpedo this idea that wants to transform all Latin American countries in "pigs".
------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: November 15 2006 at 14:36
The only way to solve it is if both countries work together to combat the problem. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: November 15 2006 at 15:45
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The only way to stop the illegal inmigration not in a short lapse of time is stopping the American way of life propaganda.
USA politicians keep saying in all public forums, we are the greatest, people is free here, everybody can get a job, we are better than any other country, the land of the free, blah blah blah.
Stop that, say the truth, the Social Seccurity is about to collapse, there's not enough jobs for USA citizens, illegal inmigrants are exploited, if you don't have insurance you will die, there's no future for more foreigners, we are not the best place to live.
But, when they need votes or need to fight any dictator they start again with the propaganda, then if you tell people USA is the paradise, why do you ask the reason why more inmigrants go there......because they buy the story.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 15 2006 at 21:31
We should build a wall just so we can have David Hasslehoff stand over it and sing a song while we tear it down.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: November 15 2006 at 22:24
Damn! i couldn`t have thought in a better idea  ------------- Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: November 16 2006 at 01:01
Great, insightful post!  ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: November 16 2006 at 14:20
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This is an outrage, really!.
US steals territory and they expect ovations because erecting a wall is "necessary" for their sovereignty... or their "EMPIRE"?.
This is just another version of the wall of Berlin, considering that the borders are filled with mexican relatives.
The UN can't do anything but suggest, since G.W. Bush proved that organizations' incompetence when dealing with sovereignty of countries like Iraq or Puerto Rico. Bush feels he can do whatever the hell he likes because the UN won't really give a frog's butt (by the way, you should watch that movie "The Day After Tomorrow". It's simply more than just another natural-disaster movie rip-off..... it has a message for the americans regarding their brother countries).
------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: Chus
Date Posted: November 16 2006 at 14:25
I agree entirely with that... then again in europe there's a lot of immigration and the social security system works for natives and immigrants as well... even illegals!... so America is not the first choice nowadays... of course mexicans and cubans will have to choose America because of the relatively close distance...
------------- Jesus Gabriel |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: November 16 2006 at 16:44
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The best choice is to stay home (and fight for less corruption and better conditions)!
I don't know the real situation all over Mexico and some other countries but here in Brazil we had some years ago a kind of trend from some shameful middle-class who left the country seeking for a "better life" outside. The majority is on a critical position or returned with a sour taste in the mouth! ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: November 16 2006 at 17:04
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It will be a colossal waste of time and money which will utterly fail in its purpose. A wall won't stop anybody with sufficient determination and some basic ladder, tunnel or boat building skills, to say nothing of access to air transport. After all, the UK has a minimum of 22 miles of open sea all around its notional borders and we have no shortage of illegal immigrants here.
What a wall will do is boost opportunities for organised crime to profit from people trafficking and simultaneously cause resentment, discontent and anti-US feeling in Latin America.
There is a real problem to be dealt with, but a wall is not the solution. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: jalas
Date Posted: November 17 2006 at 14:40
Maybe if the American corporations that exploit people in Latin America were to pay descent wages, then there will not have to be a wall. All the problems that the US has, the US brings it on itself. ------------- 
JOIN THE COMMUNIST PARTY! |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: November 17 2006 at 18:23
when huge companies like Ford and GM outsource all their jobs to other countries for cheap labor. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: November 18 2006 at 00:48
 ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: markosherrera
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 21:17
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Bush is a retrograde |
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: January 03 2007 at 21:51
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This poll is outdated, Markos... the "news" are old and everything to be said was said.
Let the poll RIP. Thanks! ------------- Guigo ~~~~~~ |