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bamba 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: June 08 2005 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 368 |
 Posted: November 12 2006 at 00:57 |
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It's an insult, and its not a solution for the real problem. The reason why Latin amaerican people need to cross the border; thats the real question.
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Learning Flute [Amigo de Manticore y Memowakeman] (primo)[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2187/2437702285_fbb450500d_o.jpg
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memowakeman
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 19 2005 Location: Mexico City Status: Offline Points: 13032 |
Posted: November 12 2006 at 01:31 |
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is neccessary??? no way....
Okay, the problem of stop immigrants is neccesary, but the root of the problem has to be solved here in Mexico, the idea of building a wall is just ridicolous, sadly so many people believe that the best way to a better life is crossing the frontier and arrive to that wonderland called USA, and so many people has success and they live better, but the most of them have to be exploted and work without dignity just to have a few cents more.
It`s coming a new president here in Mexico, who as well as the other ones has promised to make an effort with the immigration problem, but it has to start from the beggining, with more employment to our fellow people and with a better pay, sadly the situation here is sooo divided between the same government, so i dont see a brighter future in this topic, so i could say that we share the fault of this problem, and i said share, because it`s a give and take, the same US people are accomplice of immigration, they "help" Mexicans to cross the line, then they make them work, earn money without working and then pay a misery to the immigrants who after hard days of work, start their new trip to a better life.
Yes, the problem has to be solved, it`s a huge and hard problem indeed, but building a wall???.... bullsh*t....
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
Posted: November 12 2006 at 01:56 |
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Ironic is that probably +80% of the illegal immigrants are so-called Native Americans! In the past, what actually is the SW of the USA and North and Central Mexico was dominated by tribes of the Ute language/culture, then "civilized people" came and defined a border; those north of it (apaches, payutes, navajos, hopis, etc) are full citizens, those south of the border are undesirable, to say the least.
Most ironic, there is 1 million illegal Europeans living/working in the USA. They come from everywhere, not only Eastern Europe but some "rich countries", like Italy or the UK. In terms of jobs, they are much more "dangerous" to the average white/afro US citizen than the traditional ilegales. What to do with these people?
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Guigo
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: November 12 2006 at 04:17 |
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Kill them, of course - especially those coming from Italy!  Guigo, my friend, you just gave me a great idea... What if I became an illegal immigrant myself? Seriously (and very much so) speaking, I think the whole idea is insulting and ridiculous. And, before any of you tells me that I have no idea, I'll remind you that Italy - being surrounded by the sea on three sides - is one of the countries most targeted by illegal immigration. In the past five years, since I came back to live here, I've heard all sorts of talk about this topic - including those a**holes from the Lega Nord suggesting the army fire cannons against the various kinds of seacraft daily heading from North Africa towards the coast of Sicily. Besides, there is another uncomfortable truth to be faced: illegal immigration exists and is so rife because there are those who take advantage from it - those dishonest employers who make a profit out of people's desire for a better life (or, in some cases, outright desperation), exploiting the situation in order to pay them less, be able to blackmail them, and avoid paying taxes. This is what happens in Italy, especially in such sectors as the construction industry. |
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: June 25 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1655 |
Posted: November 12 2006 at 12:25 |
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I see a lot of people talking about causes and little talk of solution.
If someone finds a logical solution that works and is cheap and effective, let me and the government know. Finding an acceptable solution for all parties involved would be well, near impossible. I'm well aware of the causes of it. I think the government is too more or less. The problem is there is no real solution that works unless you were to spend billions of dollars trying to fix it, and I don't see that happening. The government wants to find a cheap solution. If you guys know of a cheap solution, please let my government know. |
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006 Location: World Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
Posted: November 12 2006 at 18:20 |
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If USA take the money that spend in the war of IRAK and use that money for aid,or give credits with low rate of interest to the industry and agriculture of Mexico and others country ,could be a solution but the president Bush,and his partners are too fascist, that is impossible for they think in humanitary way,they think in solutions of their business,i remember the actitude of bush in the hurricane katrina.and he prefer give money to the war and no maintain the defenses of new orleans Edited by markosherrera - November 12 2006 at 21:32 |
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1655 |
Posted: November 12 2006 at 22:04 |
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A˛ Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
Posted: November 12 2006 at 23:20 |
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I see it as an insult to intelligence in general. The immigration "problem" aside. Do they really think building a big expensive fence is a viable solution? What gets me more is that they want me to believe it is. I may be a product of public education, but come on!
Edited by bhikkhu - November 12 2006 at 23:21 |
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SolariS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 891 |
Posted: November 14 2006 at 01:48 |
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I think the idea is absurd. |
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006 Location: World Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
Posted: November 14 2006 at 13:13 |
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the people emigrate,to work better ,to gain more,to find oportunities,the solution is give that oportunities in their countries ,is time to think in the cooperation ,between the countries,because the people that emigrate are people with soul,with spirit like you,like me ,this is my christian way of think,more than a only savage capitalism mentality,the cooperation is necessary,because the emigrant are million of people they are not only statistics,...all in the world is a cause and effect,for example,the narcotraffic,exist because there are a market,or consumers,and USA is the biggest.well .the problem of inmigration could be resolve with more positive politics,not with walls
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: October 22 2005 Location: elsewhere Status: Offline Points: 67407 |
Posted: November 14 2006 at 13:32 |
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Has this wall been seriously suggested?
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: November 14 2006 at 19:05 |
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Unfortunately yes, my friend. In fact, Bush signed a bill into law just two weeks ago to order it built. A billion dollars has already been allocated, although we're not sure this will be enough. 
On a brighter note though, as many have already noted above - the Democrats who last week took control of the U.S. House and Senate are more than likely going to try to scrap the whole thing. |
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus |
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 23 2005 Location: Baltimore,Md US Status: Offline Points: 27802 |
Posted: November 14 2006 at 19:37 |
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We give aid,money and food to alot of countries,and while I am not against it,there are alot of homeless,unemployed and starving people here in the US too. Maybe Mexico should clean up it's incredibly corrupt government and the people wouldn't want to leave. And...it's the US Army Corps of Engineers that are rebuilding the New Orleans levee system. |
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
Posted: November 14 2006 at 19:57 |
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Sad to say, Jody, but US companies receive yearly twice or thrice the money applied by the US government in any country. All lose, the US taxpayers who support the government, the people in the countries where the aid is supposed to go. The only winners are investors, bankers and a minority economical elite at those countries.
In the past, every time certain less corrupt governments in Latin America or other backyard parts tried to limit the money remittance they were generally thrown away by militaries sponsored by the same big companies behind the scenes. Presently, these huge transnational businesses have other means to receive the astronomical profits made elsewhere (with few left where the profits came).
It's really not an exclusive policy of US companies, all act equally be them French, British, German, Japanese, etc. Even companies from emergent countries like Brazil do the same in poorer countries. It's called Capitalism, the economical philosophy that unfortunately is associated with "democracy".
Unless this policy could be driven to a satisfactory compromise we all will continue to lose money and jobs or building walls or firing refugee ships or worse. Edited by Atkingani - November 14 2006 at 19:59 |
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Guigo
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memowakeman
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 19 2005 Location: Mexico City Status: Offline Points: 13032 |
Posted: November 14 2006 at 23:07 |
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman |
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
Posted: November 14 2006 at 23:16 |
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We need walls if we ever want to break them
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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An old fart
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 15 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 207 |
Posted: November 15 2006 at 00:31 |
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I can't think of this wall in any other way than it being an arrogant gesture from neoconservative American politians to let the Latin American people feel they are second class human beings from which the USA must be saved from. Good thing though, just like Clem mentioned, the Democrats are in majority in the U.S. House and Senate now, so this wall will likely not become reality. It certainly shouldn't.
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"Make tea, not love"
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: November 15 2006 at 01:40 |
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 15 2006 at 01:42 |
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006 Location: Washington Hgts Status: Offline Points: 10094 |
Posted: November 15 2006 at 08:44 |
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Just throwing this out there, even if we do build a wall, couldn't the Mexicans just build a catapult?
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Pnoom!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 02 2006 Location: OH Status: Offline Points: 4981 |
Posted: November 15 2006 at 12:35 |
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The best solution is to make there be no reason for them to come to the U.S. If they cannot get a job here, they won't come. Why waste money deporting or building a wall when we can punish companies that employ them. If they fire all the illegals, they'll have to go home (or starve). The best wall is a legal wall put up to prevent all but legal immigrants from getting access to the benefits of being an American citizen.
Edited by inpraiseoffolly - November 15 2006 at 12:37 |
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wall between USA and Mexico
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Atkingani wrote: