wall between USA and Mexico

For me is an insult.

Edited by markosherrera - November 16 2006 at 08:02

I am married to a Mexican national and have over 50 in-laws who live there, so on a personal level this is grossly offensive to me.

From a pragmatic standpoint, there have been a lot of jokes about the U.S. having to hire Mexicans to build that wall. I believe people need to think very carefully about that. The Hispanic demographics for the four states across which this wall will run:

Arizona - 26%
New Mexico - 42%
Texas - 32%
California - 32%

So really - who is going to build this thing? Is the government going to bring in labor from other parts of the country? If so, there are going to be serious problems in those communities, especially the ones around where Hurricane Katrina struck and people are still suffering and not particularly happy with their government anyway.

There are also bound to be many confrontations, demonstrations, sabotage, and general violence around the construction sites by people on both sides of the issue. Even beyond the demographics of the number of Hispanics in those states, there are many, many more families who are multi-racial with one of the spouses being Hispanic. These families will be affected in cases where one or more family member works on the wall, or demonstrates on behalf of one or the other side of the issue.

There will be economic and social impacts for families, friends, businesses, churches, and social groups who currently have members that live on both sides of the border. Just ask anyone who was caught on the wrong side when the Berlin Wall went up, or when the DMZ was fenced off in Korea. Thousands of personal relationships were torn apart and lives shattered.

And like virtually everything else the Bush administration has proposed, the purpose of this wall is based on his immature, reactionary, and overly-simplified view of the world. It would be sadly appropriate if he ordered the wall to be painted black & white.

But on a lighter note - I'm sure there are already bookmakers taking odds on whether the wall will ever even be completed. I know which side my money is on...


One other thought - I wonder which U.S. firm will be the first to buy advertising space on that wall if it actually does get built?   

It's incredible. for decades USA was the leader country against the Berlin Wall, people in USA and Republican politicians cheered the day it was destroyed.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 11 2006 at 12:53

Seriously, I don't feel myself insulted... as for the Berlin Wall the shame goes to the builder. I believe that the vast majority of American citizens, including many that are critics of "illegal immigration" don't want this kind of separation.

I don't see it as necessary but not an insult either.

Its totally different than the Berlin wall because that separated one nation not two.

Question:  Does everyone actually think the wall is meant to be an insult?  Why would they build a wall to insult somebody?  That's just silly.  Also, I couldn't help but notice that of all the people showing dislike of the wall, there was only one American.  And I 100% agree with all the people who think the Berlin Wall comparison is silly.  Is it so bad to put your own people's well-being ahead of another country's people?  Countries work because they have a set of rules you must follow or face consequences.  When people start to break the rules and you just shrug your shoulders and let them, that's when countries start to fall apart.  

TheProgtologist wrote: How can you compare this to the Berlin Wall? The BW was built to keep people from escaping a Communist state,a wall at our border is for keeping people from entering our country illegally,which is a CRIME. Maybe you all ought to live here for awhile,I'll let you talk to all my friends who can't get work or our being replaced at jobs they held for years because of cheap,tax free labor by illegal immigrants.

With due respect, I think that last comment is a little bit disingenuous.

I seriously doubt many of anyone's friends has lost a legitimate job to an illegal alien. Very few legitimate companies would risk knowingly giving a job to an illegal.

The unemployment rate in this country is 4.4%. The average hourly wage is $16.91. Granted, there are places in the country where jobs are scarce, particularly in former industrial areas. It's unlikely this is as much a result of illegal aliens taking jobs though. In most industries it's more a result of multinational corporations moving their operations to "low-cost countries". In those cases the jobs weren't taken by illegals, they were taken by the nationals who stayed in the countries where the jobs went.

The argument that this wall is different than the Berlin Wall may be valid, but frankly it's a moot point. There are (by our government's own estimate) more than 10,000,000 illegal immigrants in this country. They are not going to leave of their own will, and they outnumber even the combined force of our military and national guard. That is a reality of our world that we must deal with.

And we do not have some 'God-given' inalienable right to the borders that we have drawn around this land. Borders are conventions of governments, not of the people. Our country is made up of 300,000,000 people, and virtually none of them 'came from here'. As long as we are a nation of immigrants (which will probably be forever), we will have people whose interests and ties extend beyond borders. Bricking up those borders will not remove those interests, and social friction will be the result.

Mexico is a strategic trade partner for this country, and many 'American' firms have moved factories and jobs there. We cannot simply build a wall and tell these neighbors that the border is 'closed'. It's laughable and arrogant for us to believe this will stop anyone. All this wall will serve to do is to further erode our country's reputation and international relations even further.

Immigration is a serious problem in this country. So is poverty, homelessness, and mental illness. We must deal with these social issues head-on, not by hiding them behind a wall and pretending that they have gone away.

    

Off topic but:

 

There is a similar situation in Australia, although there isn’t a physical wall. All Asylum Seekers that land on our shores are put into detention centers until they can be processed. Almost all of them are either African, Asian or Middle-eastern and have escaped war torn countries to seek refuge, I think it’s disgraceful to stick them in prisons for upwards of three years. After the last Common Wealth Games here in Melbourne some of the competitors from Africa refused to leave and have disappeared in the country somewhere.

 

Immigrants make a country great; Australia would be nothing if it weren’t for Immigrants from countries listed below.

 

Foreign born in Australia (Excluding United Kingdom and New Zealand.

Italy : 218,692 (1.2%)

Vietnam : 154,770 (0.9%)

China : 142,872 (0.8%)

Greece : 116,330 (0.7%)

Germany : 108,251 (0.6%)

Philippines : 104,018 (0.6%)

India : 95,444 (0.5%)

Netherlands : 83,299 (0.5%)

Collectively 150,966 respondents (0.9%) were born in countries now known as Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia and the Republic of Macedonia.

 

The old lesson is that you cannot build a wonderful garden in your frontyard and throw the garbage in the backyard. If appropriate investments were done in Mexico and Central America in the past 100 years the situation could be tolerable now, with only the natural exchange of people in-and-out. Also part of the problem could be avoided if employers were fined or jailed for using illegal workmanship, but I think it does not happen and the guilt remains only with the invaders.

My statement about cheap illegal labor is valid.I live in a blue-collar city and most of the people I know have blue collar jobs(construction workers,landscapers,road building,etc.),and they are losing them to immigrants,and all these companies are legitimate.Do you know there is a thriving industry in Baltimore?It's called forging documents,especially immigration papers and green cards.

We have a very large company in this state called Crouse Construction.A large number of people I know used to work there.They were widening a main thoroughfare near my house for 2 months and not ONE worker was Caucasian or African-American,they were ALL Hispanic.

I am not a bigot,I am not racist.But if you are going to live here you ought to be here legally.Period.